Social Abraham Lincoln R* the 1st homosexual President of America ...?

So you've literally ignored all evidence against your hero. Yeah, you're not objective in the slightest. Tell us more about you needing context though lol.

Throughout the totality if the thread I have addressed each and every bit of evidence.

And I actually have been objective, admitting that Lincoln's actions with sleeping in the same bed with another man, even for the time, was quite odd, but odd behavior is not equate homosexual activity.

And do you how who shares my opinion about Lincoln and Seed having a strong friendship? A PHD Historian who wrote a book on the friendship of Lincoln and Speed.

"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."

Are you going to keep ignoring that bit of evidence while claim I'm ignoring evidence, or are you be a man and address it?




tenor.gif
 
...his stepmother's comments...

Keep talking about it like the full quote and context wasn't posted two pages back and apparently everyone but you knows the truth on that talking point.

Yet you claim everyone else but is isn't 'objective in the slightest' while you ignore evidence.
 
Throughout the totality if the thread I have addressed each and every bit of evidence.

And I actually have been objective, admitting that Lincoln's actions with sleeping in the same bed with another man, even for the time, was quite odd, but odd behavior is not equate homosexual activity.

And do you how who shares my opinion about Lincoln and Seed having a strong friendship? A PHD Historian who wrote a book on the friendship of Lincoln and Speed.

"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."

Are you going to keep ignoring that bit of evidence while claim I'm ignoring evidence, or are you be a man and address it?




tenor.gif
Keep talking about it like the full quote and context wasn't posted two pages back and apparently everyone but you knows the truth on that talking point.

Yet you claim everyone else but is isn't 'objective in the slightest' while you ignore evidence.
Nothing was taken out of context. She OUTED him. Read the preface. She was reflecting on her son's life. I'll go ahead and quote it for you.

Her recollection of Abraham given below is from a statement she made to William Herndon on Friday, September 8, 1865, at her humble home 8 miles south of Charleston, Ill.”

I'll say it again. No straight man would have this much compelling evidence against them. Otherwise, they wouldn't be deemed straight.
 
Nothing was taken out of context. She OUTED him. Read the preface. She was reflecting on her son's life. I'll go ahead and quote it for you.

Her recollection of Abraham given below is from a statement she made to William Herndon on Friday, September 8, 1865, at her humble home 8 miles south of Charleston, Ill.”

I'll say it again. No straight man would have this much compelling evidence against them. Otherwise, they wouldn't be deemed straight.

Apparently you didn't read the full quote in its full context.

So here it is again, for you to not read.


"Abe slept upstairs, went up on pins stuck in the logs, like a ladder; our bedsteads were original creations, none such now, made of poles and clapboards. Abe was about nine years of age when I landed in Indiana. The country was wild, and desolate. Abe was a good boy; he didn't like physical labor, was diligent for knowledge, wished to know, and if pains and labor would get it, he was sure to get it. He was the best boy I ever saw. He read all the books he could lay his hands on. I can't remember dates nor names, am about seventy-five years of age; Abe read the Bible some, though not as much as said; he sought more congenial books suitable for his age. I think newspapers were had in Indiana as early as 1824 and up to 1830 when we moved to Illinois. Abe was a constant reader of them. I am sure of this for the years of 1827-28-29-30. The name of the Louisville Journal seems to sound like one. Abe read history papers and other books, can't name any one, have forgotten. . . . He duly reverenced old age, loved those best about his own age, played with those under his age; he listened to the aged, argued with his equals, but played with the children. He loved animals generally and treated them kindly; he loved children well, very well. There seemed to be nothing unusual in his love for animals or his own kind, though he treated everybody and everything kindly, humanely. Abe didn't care much for crowds of people; he chose his own company, which was always good. He was not very fond of girls, as he seemed to me. He sometimes attended church. He would repeat the sermon over again to the children. The sight of such a thing amused all and did especially tickle the children. When Abe was reading, my husband took particular care not to disturb him, would let him read on and on till Abe quit of his own accord. He was dutiful to me always; he loved me truly, I think."


Its of no surprise that you refuse to address that quote, because you also refuse to address this quote.

Because you're a pussy.

"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."
 
Apparently you didn't read the full quote in its full context.

So here it is again, for you to not read.


"Abe slept upstairs, went up on pins stuck in the logs, like a ladder; our bedsteads were original creations, none such now, made of poles and clapboards. Abe was about nine years of age when I landed in Indiana. The country was wild, and desolate. Abe was a good boy; he didn't like physical labor, was diligent for knowledge, wished to know, and if pains and labor would get it, he was sure to get it. He was the best boy I ever saw. He read all the books he could lay his hands on. I can't remember dates nor names, am about seventy-five years of age; Abe read the Bible some, though not as much as said; he sought more congenial books suitable for his age. I think newspapers were had in Indiana as early as 1824 and up to 1830 when we moved to Illinois. Abe was a constant reader of them. I am sure of this for the years of 1827-28-29-30. The name of the Louisville Journal seems to sound like one. Abe read history papers and other books, can't name any one, have forgotten. . . . He duly reverenced old age, loved those best about his own age, played with those under his age; he listened to the aged, argued with his equals, but played with the children. He loved animals generally and treated them kindly; he loved children well, very well. There seemed to be nothing unusual in his love for animals or his own kind, though he treated everybody and everything kindly, humanely. Abe didn't care much for crowds of people; he chose his own company, which was always good. He was not very fond of girls, as he seemed to me. He sometimes attended church. He would repeat the sermon over again to the children. The sight of such a thing amused all and did especially tickle the children. When Abe was reading, my husband took particular care not to disturb him, would let him read on and on till Abe quit of his own accord. He was dutiful to me always; he loved me truly, I think."


Its of no surprise that you refuse to address that quote, because you also refuse to address this quote.

Because you're a pussy.

"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."
Sorry pal. That's what she said about her son. You're acting like she didn't mean what she said when she clearly did. Her statement was proven through Abe's decades of homosexual behavior from his 20s through his 50s. Who is this random neckbeard you're quoting? They don't know him better than the man's own mother. Guaranteed. Abe chose to sleep with Joshua Speed even when he was offered his own bed. That tells us all we need to know. Doesn't it?
 
Well yeah ... if you've ever seen a Republican convention. Far right gang bang in a gay club during pandemic remember much?
Didn't it crash Grinder or one of the gay dating websites in the area or something????
I remember that hitting the news lmao

This doesn't really have the same punch it used to. For one, trannies and gender ideology have all but repealed and replaced "regular" gheys on a culture war front. From a legal standpoint, a conservative SCOTUS essentially sealed the deal on the gay rights movement with Bostock v. Clayton County in 2020 (Gorsuch even penned the fucking majority opinion, lol); a whole grip of Republicans in both chambers of Congress followed that by voting in favor of the RFMA in 2022; then you take a glance at the official RNC platform in 2024 and there's no mention of homosexuality anywhere to found. It's kind of over with, even if people haven't realized it yet. And good riddance to that issue, it always made for an awful political identity.
 
Like this guy?

about-chuck-strozier-credit-donnelly-marks.jpg


"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."

He does not deal in reality?
According to you, when you were reaching for straws with your short arms, you claimed historians were not credible. I know you're new to this, but you will find experts on both sides of the coin for any controversial topic. Now that you have latched onto one that supports your confirmation bias its hilarious to see you walk back your stance.

In college I had a professor who wrote several books on Thomas Jefferson. At the time my girlfriend was a descendent of Sally Heming.
The professor wrote multiple papers and books about how Thomas Jefferson did not have a relationship or children with Sally or his slaves. We all know that "expert" to be dead wrong today.
 
Sorry pal.Her statement was proven through Abe's decades of homosexual behavior from his 20s through his 50s.


Yes you should apologize, for pretending that you don't notice in the full quote she's clearly describing Abe in his youth.

"Abe slept upstairs, went up on pins stuck in the logs, like a ladder; our bedsteads were original creations,"

"Abe was about nine years of age when I landed in Indiana."

"Abe was a good boy;"

"He was the best boy I ever saw."

"I think newspapers were had in Indiana as early as 1824 and up to 1830 when we moved to Illinois."

"
loved those best about his own age,"


Who is this random neckbeard you're quoting?
An esteemed PhD Historian who was an a consultant for the 'Lover Of Men' documentary.
You'll see him when you watch it.

And keep pretending you haven't seen my other posts that I posted his quote because you can't respond to it. You basically have to keep being the little cowardly bitch you have been throughout the thread and keep ignoring it.
 
Yes you should apologize, for pretending that you don't notice in the full quote she's clearly describing Abe in his youth.

"Abe slept upstairs, went up on pins stuck in the logs, like a ladder; our bedsteads were original creations,"

"Abe was about nine years of age when I landed in Indiana."

"Abe was a good boy;"

"He was the best boy I ever saw."

"I think newspapers were had in Indiana as early as 1824 and up to 1830 when we moved to Illinois."

"
loved those best about his own age,"



An esteemed PhD Historian who was an a consultant for the 'Lover Of Men' documentary.
You'll see him when you watch it.

And keep pretending you haven't seen my other posts that I posted his quote because you can't respond to it. You basically have to keep being the little cowardly bitch you have been throughout the thread and keep ignoring it.
Bullshit. She's describing his life and drawing from parts of his youth. He didn't leave home until he was in his early 20s. What's your argument, that he was bisexual but then became straight later on? Even the historians that think Abe was straight don't argue what his own mother meant. They can't. But here you are trying it. Your personal attacks against me also speak volumes. You've been humiliated, beaten down, and the embarrassment is getting to you. You've lost. Deal with it, nerd.

"If there were no letters, if there were no records, if there was no documentary evidence, I could not conclude in good faith that Lincoln was a lover of men," Occidental College professor Thomas Balcerski, who is one of the experts featured in the film, tells PEOPLE. "But we have the receipts."

"There is a lot of documentation of Lincoln really not being interested in women," said historian Jonathan Ned Katz. "There's a surprising amount of comments about that."

"They were sleeping pressed together so they wouldn't fall off the cot — spooning. I can't imagine sleeping like that would have been tolerable for either one of them if they didn't like it."

"Joshua Speed, in that moment, assured Lincoln, for his own wellness, that sex with women was manageable," says Balcerski.

The Biggest Bombshells from Abraham Lincoln Documentary “Lover of Men”:“ ”Lust, Marriage and 'Perfect' Thighs
 
Ouch. You know another thing I just remembered? Abe wrestled in his early years. He did it for about a decade. As a matter of fact he was even inducted into the national wrestling hall of fame. Makes me wonder now lol.
I hear he liked mmgay too
This doesn't really have the same punch it used to. For one, trannies and gender ideology have all but repealed and replaced "regular" gheys on a culture war front. From a legal standpoint, a conservative SCOTUS essentially sealed the deal on the gay rights movement with Bostock v. Clayton County in 2020 (Gorsuch even penned the fucking majority opinion, lol); a whole grip of Republicans in both chambers of Congress followed that by voting in favor of the RFMA in 2022; then you take a glance at the official RNC platform in 2024 and there's no mention of homosexuality anywhere to found. It's kind of over with, even if people haven't realized it yet. And good riddance to that issue, it always made for an awful political identity.
The over comp in the first sentence is hilarious. Wij werken samen huurs?
 
According to you, when you were reaching for straws with your short arms, you claimed historians were not credible.
Incorrect.
I said the historians that are in the documentary are being paid to be in the documentary, and they're the relatively few in comparison to the 3500 accredited historians.

I chose the mainstream consensus of historians, rather than a fringe minority opinion.

I know you're new to this, but you will find experts on both sides of the coin for any controversial topic.
All 'experts' were not created equal, so go find an 'expert' on your side that has better credientials than Charles Strozier.

And given there's 3500 historians and only a few have endorced such a theory, I'm quite positive historians are on my side.
Now that you have latched onto one that supports your confirmation bias its hilarious to see you walk back your stance.
LOL @ you accusing others of confirmation bias while you claim Lincoln's Stepmother outted him.

<JonesLaugh>

Its like thinking a speeding ticket is a winning lottery ticket.

In college I had a professor who wrote several books on Thomas Jefferson. At the time my girlfriend was a descendent of Sally Heming.
The professor wrote multiple papers and books about how Thomas Jefferson did not have a relationship or children with Sally or his slaves. We all know that "expert" to be dead wrong today.
I'll take "Shit That Doesn't Matter" for $1000, Alex?
 
The Biggest Bombshells from Abraham Lincoln Documentary “Lover of Men”:“ ”Lust, Marriage and 'Perfect' Thighs
Everything in article is written in a very deceiving manner, like with the stepmother quote.

"The documentary quotes letters in which contemporaries of Lincoln wrote about his general distaste for "the girls." "There is a lot of documentation of Lincoln really not being interested in women," said historian Jonathan Ned Katz. "There's a surprising amount of comments about that."

Purposely doesn't include those comments she is clearly referring to Lincoln's youth.
 
Bullshit. She's describing his life and drawing from parts of his youth. He didn't leave home until he was in his early 20s. What's your argument, that he was bisexual but then became straight later on? Even the historians that think Abe was straight don't argue what his own mother meant. They can't. But here you are trying it. Your personal attacks against me also speak volumes. You've been humiliated, beaten down, and the embarrassment is getting to you. You've lost. Deal with it, nerd.

And you're insinuating he made no evolution as a person from his years as a youth into being an adult.... despite he got married and had 4 children.

Your levels of delusion and leaps in logic to justify your belief Lincoln was homosexual are all quite remarkable.
 
Everything in article is written in a very deceiving manner, like with the stepmother quote.

"The documentary quotes letters in which contemporaries of Lincoln wrote about his general distaste for "the girls." "There is a lot of documentation of Lincoln really not being interested in women," said historian Jonathan Ned Katz. "There's a surprising amount of comments about that."

Purposely doesn't include those comments she is clearly referring to Lincoln's youth.
More BS. Not once did his stepmother ever reference Abe as a "youth" or use the word "childhood". You're trying to argue against something that ABE HIMSELF expressed in writing with his friends/lovers. They all had little to no interest in women. Watch the documentary and stop crying.
 
Not once did his stepmother ever reference Abe as a "youth" or use the word "childhood".

Stop pretending like the full quote hasn't been posted in the thread multiple times.

Doesn't matter if she didn't say 'youth' or use the word 'childhood,' because she said...


"Abe slept upstairs, went up on pins stuck in the logs, like a ladder; our bedsteads were original creations,"

"Abe was about nine years of age when I landed in Indiana."

"Abe was a good boy;"

"He was the best boy I ever saw."

"I think newspapers were had in Indiana as early as 1824 and up to 1830 when we moved to Illinois."

"
loved those best about his own age,"


You're trying to argue against something that ABE HIMSELF expressed in writing with his friends/lovers. They all had little to no interest in women. Watch the documentary and stop crying.

I'll take the word of PhD Historian that was a consultant for the documentary, who is in agreement with the vast majority of Historian consensus.

"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."
 
Stop pretending like the full quote hasn't been posted in the thread multiple times.

Doesn't matter if she didn't say 'youth' or use the word 'childhood,' because she said...


"Abe slept upstairs, went up on pins stuck in the logs, like a ladder; our bedsteads were original creations,"

"Abe was about nine years of age when I landed in Indiana."

"Abe was a good boy;"

"He was the best boy I ever saw."

"I think newspapers were had in Indiana as early as 1824 and up to 1830 when we moved to Illinois."

"
loved those best about his own age,"




I'll take the word of PhD Historian that was a consultant for the documentary, who is in agreement with the vast majority of Historian consensus.

"It is hard for people to understand the male friendship of Lincoln and Speed that was so based on 19th century social attitudes. They loved each other but the relationship was not sexualized, as best I can tell from my work over 40 years."
As I said parts of it do reference Abe's life when he was younger but everybody starts from the beginning when recalling their son's life. What you're asking us to believe is asinine. Why would his mother even mention that he wasn't fond of girls given the fact that he was married to a woman and had children? Even if it was in his youth, that makes no sense. Why hang onto that if he was into women later in his life? Again, Abe didn't leave the house until he was 20 or 21. His stepmother knew him better than anybody. He wasn't close to his dad and his biological mother died when he was only 9.

Nobody cares what some historian thinks when they never knew Abe personally. Sarah Lincoln's words trump any historian's. They reveal key insight into his life and sexual preferences.

The reality is that Abe didn't hide the fact that he wasn't very interested in relationships with women. He discussed it with Joshua Speed and others. Just seeing Speed's comment saying that sleeping with women was "manageable" tells us a lot. Anyone can fill in the gaps. Abe was on the same page. Speed was trying to comfort him knowing that they couldn't be together anymore.

"Joshua Speed, in that moment, assured Lincoln, for his own wellness, that sex with women was manageable," says Balcerski.
 
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