Social Abraham Lincoln R* the 1st homosexual President of America ...?

[GearSolidMetal]

Back then it was very odd, too. Hence all of the historians that are coming around to sharing the opinion that Abe wasn't straight. Ann Rutledge was meant to be a cover. That's why she was fabricated. You've been given loads of new information, compelling info, and you're still in denial. Shocking.

'Odd behavior' either now or back 150+ years ago, isn't automatically a prerequisite for homosexuality.

Unless you'd like concede that homosexuality is 'odd' and not completely normal.

You've been given loads of new information, compelling info, and you're still in denial. Shocking.

Yes... tons of information... that hasn't convinced a larger portion of historians to result in a consensus.

To you, although they know far more about Lincoln beyond a few curated letter quotes taken out of context, they are all 'in denial.'

Yes, shocking.
Very shocking.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

'Odd behavior' either now or back 150+ years ago, isn't automatically a prerequisite for homosexuality.

Unless you'd like concede that homosexuality is 'odd' and not completely normal.

Yes... tons of information... that hasn't convinced a larger portion of historians to result in a consensus.

To you, although they know far more about Lincoln beyond a few curated letter quotes taken out of context, they are all 'in denial.'

Yes, shocking.
Very shocking.

Again, I've never claimed that Abe was homosexual. I'd say he was probably bisexual only he strongly preferred men. He was groomed for the presidency by Speed, not by Mary Todd. As for Ann Rutledge...

"Ann Rutledge (the great love that ended in her tragic death, which he forever mourned) proves to have been an invention of his law partner William Herndon, who, perhaps suspecting that the man he had practiced law with for 16 years had remained “uncomfortable” with women all his life and so needed some beefing up in the boy-girl department. Yet all evidence suggests that Lincoln’s stepmother got it right when after Lincoln’s death she said, “He was not very fond of girls.” Nevertheless, Herndon feverishly “researched” and embellished the Ann Rutledge story for years, but a generation or two of scholar squirrels have successfully shot that story down."

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You also didn't know how a movie trailer worked.

No I said the 'What Stuff' quote from the trailer is obviously taken out of context.

You said 'YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TRAILERS WORK.'



Your accusations are unhinged, and your constant repeating of them after I have already logically adressed them is an example you have no interest in intellectual discussion of the truth.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

, I've never claimed that Abe was homosexual.

And again, Bisexual = Heterosexual + Homosexual.

Yet all evidence suggests that Lincoln’s stepmother got it right when after Lincoln’s death she said, “He was not very fond of girls.” Nevertheless, Herndon feverishly “researched” and embellished the Ann Rutledge story for years, but a generation or two of scholar squirrels have successfully shot that story down."

What year did she write that of Lincoln, and what was his age at the time?

You've failed many times to answer these two questions, so perhaps you'd prefer to leave the insinuation lie rather than the honesty of the situation being revealed with a year & an age.

As for Ann Rutledge, maybe they had a relationship, maybe they didn't. But even if they didn't doesn't automatically mean Lincoln was gay. Lincoln was married with four kids and no one disputes that, so having an earlier affair is quite irrelevant.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

And again, Bisexual = Heterosexual + Homosexual.




What year did she write that of Lincoln, and what was his age at the time?

You've failed many times to answer these two questions, so perhaps you'd prefer to leave the insinuation lie rather than the honesty of the situation being revealed with a year & an age.

As for Ann Rutledge, maybe they had a relationship, maybe they didn't. But even if they didn't doesn't automatically mean Lincoln was gay. Lincoln was married with four kids and no one disputes that, so having an earlier affair is quite irrelevant.

I've dodged your questions? Nope. But you've been dodging mine from the start. You never did specifically name any respected Lincoln historians that believe he was straight. Most of them ignored his same-sex relations in order to come to that conclusion.

Lincoln was married to a woman and had kids? So were lots of other gay & bi men. Meet Renate Blauel, Elton John's wife for a half-decade, now ex-wife.

Meet Elton's two biological sons (surrogacy). *Correction, 1 is his biological the other his partner's.

 

[Bia]

at the current trend, all the historic figures are either gay, disabled or black

 

[WklySportsMemes]

No I said the 'What Stuff' quote from the trailer is obviously taken out of context.

You said 'YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TRAILERS WORK.'



Your accusations are unhinged, and your constant repeating of them after I have already logically adressed them is an example you have no interest in intellectual discussion of the truth.

There is nothing logical about you.
You're a low IQ pull string clown crying about Covid vaccines & Big Mike in a gay Lincoln thread.

All that to say you can't answer the question of if you would spoon with Lincoln on a cot. See you don't even believe your own stance.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@GearSolidMetal It also needs to be mentioned that Abe explicitly chose to sleep next to Speed (that is, spoon). He was offered his own bed but he declined it. Now please tell us how 'normal' this decision was. LOL!

"One Lincoln associate, William Butler, the documentary notes, offered him a single bed in his home, but Lincoln opted to bunk with Speed instead. Over the course of the four years they lived together and slept side-by-side in that bed, Chesson says, "It grew into something far more than lust."

The Biggest Bombshells from Abraham Lincoln Documentary “Lover of Men”:“ ”Lust, Marriage and 'Perfect' Thighs

The documentary takes a close look at the life and loves of the 16th U.S. president

www.yahoo.com

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

There is nothing logical about you.
You're a low IQ pull string clown crying about Covid vaccines & Big Mike in a gay Lincoln thread.

All that to say you can't answer the question of if you would spoon with Lincoln on a cot. See you don't even believe your own stance.

Man it's taking him FOREVER to Google the names of some Lincoln historians that believe he was straight lol. They're out there, he just doesn't know a single one because he's full of shit.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

There is nothing logical about you.
You're a low IQ pull string clown crying about Covid vaccines & Big Mike in a gay Lincoln thread.

All that to say you can't answer the question of if you would spoon with Lincoln on a cot. See you don't even believe your own stance.

And your argument has devolved to the 'Would You Sleep Next To Lincoln' desperation.

Which is another example of how the entire argument for Lincoln being gay requires viewing close male friendships from 200 years ago through a modern sexual lense.

@GearSolidMetal It also needs to be mentioned that Abe explicitly chose to sleep next to Speed (that is, spoon). He was offered his own bed but he declined it. Now please tell us how 'normal' this decision was. LOL!

Why are you repeating old points that have already been brought up in the thread?

Count this under the 'Lincoln had close friendships with men due to social anxienty of women due to a lack of socialization after spending his entire childhood at farms' explanation.

Practically ever question about Lincoln's odd behavior is answered by that.

There's no evidence of homosexuality. Period.

Man it's taking him FOREVER to Google the names of some Lincoln historians that believe he was straight lol. They're out there, he just doesn't know a single one because he's full of shit.

What historians have I looked up and posted in the thread?
The simple fact is there's 3500 accredited historians in the United States, and apparently there's a few dozen that publicly endorce the theory that Lincoln was gay.

And a few dozen just so happen to be given the biggest microphones, funded by the LGBTQ lobby and Hollywood.

Talk all you want about 'There's a documentary!'
Lincoln being gay is still a fringe theory amongst a few historians that doesn't stand up to the counter-evidence and logic.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

And your argument has devolved to the 'Would You Sleep Next To Lincoln' desperation.

Which is another example of how the entire argument for Lincoln being gay requires viewing close male friendships from 200 years ago through a modern sexual lense.




Why are you repeating old points that have already been brought up in the thread?

Count this under the 'Lincoln had close friendships with men due to social anxienty of women due to a lack of socialization after spending his entire childhood at farms' explanation.

Practically ever question about Lincoln's odd behavior is answered by that.

There's no evidence of homosexuality. Period.




What historians have I looked up and posted in the thread?
The simple fact is there's 3500 accredited historians in the United States, and apparently there's a few dozen that publicly endorce the theory that Lincoln was gay.

And a few dozen just so happen to be given the biggest microphones, funded by the LGBTQ lobby and Hollywood.

Talk all you want about 'There's a documentary!'
Lincoln being gay is still a fringe theory amongst a few historians that doesn't stand up to the counter-evidence and logic.

You still haven't answered @WklySportsMemes question nor did you answer mine. It's a very simple question. Spouting alleged numbers doesn't answer it. Name a few historians on record that believe Abe was straight. No 'modern sexual lens' is needed here. He preferred to sleep with men when he was offered more comfortable (better) options. Alarm bells should be going off in your head right now.

You don't even believe the shit you've been writing. There's a well-established pattern of homosexual tendencies from his 20s through his 50s. It's already been demonstrated. However, you've done nothing but make excuses for the man. Laughable ones at that.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

You still haven't answered @WklySportsMemes question nor did you answer mine. It's a very simple question.

Because its irrelevant to the discussion, and both of your attempts to make it personal.

Spouting alleged numbers doesn't answer it. Name a few historians on record that believe Abe was straight. No 'modern sexual lens' is needed here.

There's no 'alleged' numbers about it.
There's 46 links within the wikipedia entry for 'Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln' so go ahead and start reading.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Abraham_Lincoln#:~:text=Mainstream%20historians%20generally%20hold%20that%20Lincoln%20was%20heterosexual%2C,in%20an%20enduring%20marriage%20to%20a%20woman.%20

And when you search for 'Lincoln Sexuality' within Bing, the summary on top before any search results is as follows -

Heterosexual
Mainstream historians generally hold that Lincoln was heterosexual, noting that the historical context explains any of the supposed evidence, that he had romantic ties with women, and that he had four children in an enduring marriage to a woman.

The burned of proof isn't my side to prove Lincoln was straight, is of your side to prove he was gay because its the general consensus amongst historians that he was heterosexual.

And your evidence presented has been pathetically weak.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

its the general consensus amongst historians that he was heterosexual.

Gore Vidal: “Predictably, most Lincoln authorities prefer to ignore the implications of the Lincoln-Speed letters.”

Hmm. Why do you think they'd do such a thing?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Gore Vidal: “Predictably, most Lincoln authorities prefer to ignore the implications of the Lincoln-Speed letters.”

Hmm. Why do you think they'd do such a thing?

They don't 'ignore' it because there's a perfectly logical explanation - (from my post above)

"...noting that the historical context explains any of the supposed evidence,"

 

[Don Quixote]

Yes it can be.
He preferred the company and companionship with men. That's not disputed or uncommon for the time.
What is disputed the context of 'sleeping with.'
In modern times that term is a clearly mean to outright say there's a sexual relationship, but there's no evidence that at any point Lincoln had sex with anyone he 'slept in the bed' with.

You have a very interesting view of the word 'overwhelming

I have seen this all too often with historical figures. People use the fallacy of presentism and do not even consider the historical context of the past. Centuries ago preferring the company of women instead of men would probably raise red flags about sexuality in their own right back then.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

They don't 'ignore' it because there's a perfectly logical explanation - (from my post above)

"...noting that the historical context explains any of the supposed evidence,"

The historical context doesn't explain it. Try again. Nobody would deliberately choose to share a bed with another man, and stranger at that, when offered their own bed. They wouldn't be sneaking him into bed when the wife is gone. It's the general consensus that Abe was straight and yet you can't name a single expert that's gone on record stating he was straight? Brilliant. They ignore his sexuality because they don't want to tarnish his image in the court of public opinion. That's the reason.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

The historical context doesn't explain it. Try again.

Actually it does, and I've explained it to you many times in this thread.

Meanwhile you don't know what year Lincoln's stepmother wrote 'He doesn't enjoy being around women' or how old he was at the time.

Pretty sure she would change her opinion when Lincoln got married.

Nobody would deliberately choose to share a bed with another man, and stranger at that, when offered their own bed. They wouldn't be sneaking him into bed when the wife is gone. It's the general consensus that Abe was straight and yet you can't name a single expert that's gone on record stating he was straight? Brilliant.

No one disputes Lincoln was an odd & unique person. Are you under the impression that 200 years ago everyone was basically the same?

Regardless, odd quirks doesn't equate homosexual interest.

Are you saying you'd be convinced you're wrong if I just link to ONE historian who disagrees with you? I very much doubt that is the case, because then you'd demand far more after that, and even then you've dug in your heels on this subject and there's practically no chance you'll change your position.

So, saying 'You can't find one historian who says Lincoln was straight' is an irrelevant talking point.

And you have a history in this thread of having the expectation of your questions being answered, but you refuse to answer any of the questions being asked of you... like when Lincoln's Stepmother wrote that quote about his lack of interest in women.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Actually it does, and I've explained it to you many times in this thread.

Meanwhile you don't know what year Lincoln's stepmother wrote 'He doesn't enjoy being around women' or how old he was at the time.

Pretty sure she would change her opinion when Lincoln got married.




No one disputes Lincoln was an odd & unique person. Are you under the impression that 200 years ago everyone was basically the same?

Regardless, odd quirks doesn't equate homosexual interest.

Are you saying you'd be convinced you're wrong if I just link to ONE historian who disagrees with you? I very much doubt that is the case, because then you'd demand far more after that, and even then you've dug in your heels on this subject and there's practically no chance you'll change your position.

So, saying 'You can't find one historian who says Lincoln was straight' is an irrelevant talking point.

And you have a history in this thread of having the expectation of your questions being answered, but you refuse to answer any of the questions being asked of you... like when Lincoln's Stepmother wrote that quote about his lack of interest in women.

A man spooning with other strange men isn't normal. No attempt to normalize it will ever work. Sorry. Abe's stepmother knew him better than anybody. His biological mom died when he was only 9. His stepmom said that he wasn't very fond of girls after he passed. So, you'd be wrong again.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@GearSolidMetal Before you embarrass yourself again by looking to dismiss his stepmother's close relationship with him, you might want to read this. She only raised him after all.

“On December 2, 1819, Lincoln's father married Sarah "Sally" Bush Johnston, a widow with three children from Elizabethtown, Kentucky. Ten-year-old Abe quickly bonded with his new stepmother, who raised her two young stepchildren as her own. Describing her in 1860, Lincoln remarked that she was "a good and kind mother" to him.”

Early life and career of Abraham Lincoln

 

[GearSolidMetal]

A man spooning with other strange men isn't normal. No attempt to normalize it will ever work. Sorry.

Again, you repeating an odd trait about Lincoln is going to be thrown in the 'Abe was an odd guy, not evidence of homosexuality' bin.

Sorry. Abe's stepmother knew him better than anybody.

Source? Or is this another aspect of your argument you're making up?

Did she claim she knew Abe better than anybody?
What year did she make the claim?
If she made the claim is it true, or is it just her opinion she knew Abe better than anybody?
She knew him better than Abe's wife?

His stepmom said that he wasn't very fond of girls after he passed. So, you'd be wrong again.

What year?
Could you provide your source on the subject?
What was her exact quote?

Or is this another thing you're making up?

@GearSolidMetal Before you embarrass yourself again by looking to dismiss his stepmother's close relationship with him, you might want to read this. She only raised him after all.

“On December 2, 1819, Lincoln's father married Sarah "Sally" Bush Johnston, a widow with three children from Elizabethtown, Kentucky. Ten-year-old Abe quickly bonded with his new stepmother, who raised her two young stepchildren as her own. Describing her in 1860, Lincoln remarked that she was "a good and kind mother" to him.”

Early life and career of Abraham Lincoln

You're the one embarassing yourself by not including the source of the quote that Abe wasn't fond of girls, or what year she wrote it.

As for the stepmother, I read the totality of her wikipedia page days ago.

Sarah Bush Lincoln - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org