A Sinister fist tutorial:

[Da Crusha]

It's called bad instructors and not all striking arts focus so much in proper fists as karate Crusha.

I guess so. I had no idea it was such an anomaly to be able to punch properly.

 

[Sinister]

It's a testament to how much many fighting arts actually HAVE degraded. I run a Gym, I'm here numerous hours every day and have been for the past couple of years. I can count on one hand the number of people who when I asked if they were taught to ball a fist, and how, got it right, or were taught at all.

 

[Katriona1992]

It's a testament to how much many fighting arts actually HAVE degraded. I run a Gym, I'm here numerous hours every day and have been for the past couple of years. I can count on one hand the number of people who when I asked if they were taught to ball a fist, and how, got it right, or were taught at all.

Thanks Luis for the tip.

I get what you mean- this is an eye opener for me and I compete as an amateur boxer :icon_sad:...fml. Don't worry though, I'm definitely going to get some of them puny bag mitts ill I get the knuckles landing but yeah I'm kinda bummed about the basic stuff that no one ever taught me.

If you have time, I would LOVE it if you could a short tutorial in the placement of your body. I see vids of your amateur boxers (Vinny I think his name is?) and I'm jealous that everyone of them seem to have their own distinctive style. Meanwhile, the stuff I see locally are all of the same- the same stance with weight on the front leg, the arms placed straight up around the head to parry or block etc I mean it works in the ring but I wonder how much it'll work in real life when the 10/16ozes are taken off.

 

[Pugilistic]

I focused on knuckle placement during bagwork today. I still don't completely get uppercuts and straights, but it's been making a huge difference in my hooks. I'm digging into the bag and bending it instead of pushing it around. Even the sound is different.

A question for Sinister though. Do you advocate making a proper fist all the way through the punch or just at the moment of impact? Because it seems this way of balling the fist would be difficult unless you clenched your fist hard but doing so would make your arms and shoulder tense, making the punching motion more rigid and therefore limiting one's power and speed? That's the problem I'm having mostly. Being loose when I throw and being firm at the moment of impact.

 

[Azam]

'It's very hard and it feels like getting shanked (straight face)' - classic.

Great video explaining how to ball a fist & proper alignment, pretty much how I was taught on my first day of Kyokushin, it's pretty fascinating how similar some techniques are, for example when you explained how to uppercut, that's exactly the way shita tsuki works in karate, you see that used very regularly in knockdown karate. Here is a karateka using the exact same technique to TKO:





I know this topic has come up quite frequently, but Sinister when throwing straights bareknuckle (to the face area) do you tend to throw them with a horizontal fist or a vertical fist or do you mix them up - do you prefer one over the other?

I know whenever I'm throwing I tend to prefer throwing with a vertical fist because I feel it offers better wrist alignment & it feels much more natural than throwing a horizontal fist.

I know many guys also say that the vertical fist makes it alot easier to get punches to slip through an opponent's guard as compared to the horizontal fist when bareknuckle.

 

[Zephyros]

Hm, I think I understand what you're saying. Or at least will definitely will try to work and adjust on the variables that were mentioned. Proper alignment seems to be very integral. Have to say though, my notion of proper form and technique have certainly changed through our discussions.

 

[Sinister]

Thanks Luis for the tip.

I get what you mean- this is an eye opener for me and I compete as an amateur boxer :icon_sad:...fml. Don't worry though, I'm definitely going to get some of them puny bag mitts ill I get the knuckles landing but yeah I'm kinda bummed about the basic stuff that no one ever taught me.

If you have time, I would LOVE it if you could a short tutorial in the placement of your body. I see vids of your amateur boxers (Vinny I think his name is?) and I'm jealous that everyone of them seem to have their own distinctive style. Meanwhile, the stuff I see locally are all of the same- the same stance with weight on the front leg, the arms placed straight up around the head to parry or block etc I mean it works in the ring but I wonder how much it'll work in real life when the 10/16ozes are taken off.

One of these days I could probably do one on movement, but that's a very intricate subject. And yes, everyone should be developed to suit their disposition. Some are moving boxers, some are come-forward pressure guys, some are sharp-shooting counter-punchers. In our opinion each should have their own arsenal of how they put everything together.

I focused on knuckle placement during bagwork today. I still don't completely get uppercuts and straights, but it's been making a huge difference in my hooks. I'm digging into the bag and bending it instead of pushing it around. Even the sound is different.

A question for Sinister though. Do you advocate making a proper fist all the way through the punch or just at the moment of impact? Because it seems this way of balling the fist would be difficult unless you clenched your fist hard but doing so would make your arms and shoulder tense, making the punching motion more rigid and therefore limiting one's power and speed? That's the problem I'm having mostly. Being loose when I throw and being firm at the moment of impact.

The straight punches should be pretty easy to get. Just keep looking at how my knuckles impact the bag. You want as much of the same motion as possible with gloves on. And nah, there's not really a need for a very hard clench. Just when you move to punch, squeeze with that pinky finger. And no, no shoulder tension. There would be shoulder tension if the shoulders raised, but they shouldn't raise. However, it just might require a bit more forearm strength than you currently have, but that will develop with practice.

'It's very hard and it feels like getting shanked (straight face)' - classic.

Great video explaining how to ball a fist & proper alignment, pretty much how I was taught on my first day of Kyokushin, it's pretty fascinating how similar some techniques are, for example when you explained how to uppercut, that's exactly the way shita tsuki works in karate, you see that used very regularly in knockdown karate. Here is a karateka using the exact same technique to TKO:

I know this topic has come up quite frequently, but Sinister when throwing straights bareknuckle (to the face area) do you tend to throw them with a horizontal fist or a vertical fist or do you mix them up - do you prefer one over the other?

I know whenever I'm throwing I tend to prefer throwing with a vertical fist because I feel it offers better wrist alignment & it feels much more natural than throwing a horizontal fist.

I know many guys also say that the vertical fist makes it alot easier to get punches to slip through an opponent's guard as compared to the horizontal fist when bareknuckle.

How I throw them in the video is exactly how I throw them. Horizontal fist for the most part. But a slight exaggeration of movement to get the precise knuckle to impact. But I showed how to get the alignment with a horizontal fist, so it's not an issue for me.

Hm, I think I understand what you're saying. Or at least will definitely will try to work and adjust on the variables that were mentioned. Proper alignment seems to be very integral. Have to say though, my notion of proper form and technique have certainly changed through our discussions.

Yeah, tell that to all the guys who think a textbook boxer should have their hands glued to their foreheads and be on the front foot.

 

[Discipulus]

Sinister, I noticed today while trying out the rising hook exactly why some old school trainers preferred to teach the uppercut first. Getting the back of that second knuckle to land kept perplexing me. I would either skim the bag, leaving three white skin-streaks along the surface as I failed to penetrate at all. Or I would punch too deep and end up using the whole surface of my fingers, rather than the intended knuckle.

Finally I watched Joe do it on the bag, and then watched you do it slowly, and realized something. The movement is almost more like an uppercut than a hook. With the horizontal, first-knuckle hook, you swing through the bag very much from side to side ("el Schwing style"). But the rising hook seems to be all about combining the hooking motion with that forward penetration. Trying to land this style of hook improperly was like trying to land an upward-only uppercut on a heavy bag. It didn't work. But the moment I got that forward drive somewhat coordinated with the sideways hooking motion, I sunk that knuckle right into the side of the bag.

I like it. I can see why it slips through. Not only does it come from below the line of sight, but it seems like it could come forward through a typical guard, and land flush on the jaw. I'll definitely be working this one a lot more.

Of course, there's always the possibility that I've come to a completely wrong conclusion, in which case, please let me know!

P.S. I've gotten a few recommendations, of which Nuke's look the best and most affordable. But do you have any recommendations for a good pair of thin bag gloves, most akin to the old articulate-thumbed horsehair ones?

P.P.S. I've clocked myself at a total weight loss of about 21 pounds so far, and still steaming ahead. Just thought I'd let you know how the diet was working out.

 

[Sinister]

Sinister, I noticed today while trying out the rising hook exactly why some old school trainers preferred to teach the uppercut first. Getting the back of that second knuckle to land kept perplexing me. I would either skim the bag, leaving three white skin-streaks along the surface as I failed to penetrate at all. Or I would punch too deep and end up using the whole surface of my fingers, rather than the intended knuckle.

Finally I watched Joe do it on the bag, and then watched you do it slowly, and realized something. The movement is almost more like an uppercut than a hook. With the horizontal, first-knuckle hook, you swing through the bag very much from side to side ("el Schwing style"). But the rising hook seems to be all about combining the hooking motion with that forward penetration. Trying to land this style of hook improperly was like trying to land an upward-only uppercut on a heavy bag. It didn't work. But the moment I got that forward drive somewhat coordinated with the sideways hooking motion, I sunk that knuckle right into the side of the bag.

I like it. I can see why it slips through. Not only does it come from below the line of sight, but it seems like it could come forward through a typical guard, and land flush on the jaw. I'll definitely be working this one a lot more.

Of course, there's always the possibility that I've come to a completely wrong conclusion, in which case, please let me know!

P.S. I've gotten a few recommendations, of which Nuke's look the best and most affordable. But do you have any recommendations for a good pair of thin bag gloves, most akin to the old articulate-thumbed horsehair ones?

P.P.S. I've clocked myself at a total weight loss of about 21 pounds so far, and still steaming ahead. Just thought I'd let you know how the diet was working out.

Nah you've got it right. The hip that the hook flows off of has to come slightly forward a bit to support the weight movement of the punch in regards to the rising hook. This does a number of things, one is it makes the punch hard, two is it allows the head to move back even if you're moving forward, taking away distance for the opponent to counter you in. And third, the rear hip is loaded for a power punch. Triple-threat. Throw that punch right, have an opponent who cannot defend himself against it, and he's dead meat. Also, the "hands up" thing doesn't work against the rising hook. It penetrates right at the guard's softest point, just past the opponent's thumb and right into their chin, if you aim it right. So if the guy just stands there, it doesn't matter what he does, this punch is going to threaten him.

The smaller bag gloves I use I got from Arni, the Viking. They're TWINS brand, black. If I had to buy another pair it would probably be them.

And congrats on the weight loss, I was wondering as I hadn't heard from you in a bit. I look forward to seeing photos/videos of your continued progress, featuring skinny you.

 

[SPMA]

Hi sinister. I was just wondering if this was taught to you by mr. mccallum? Also, I rarely see any of the top pros angling their wrists in that motion when shadow boxing, did any of the old school boxers punch this way? I tried it today, feels awkward but definitely has a lot more sting to it when I land correctly. thanks

 

[Sinister]

Hi sinister. I was just wondering if this was taught to you by mr. mccallum? Also, I rarely see any of the top pros angling their wrists in that motion when shadow boxing, did any of the old school boxers punch this way? I tried it today, feels awkward but definitely has a lot more sting to it when I land correctly. thanks

Yes and no. The thing about learning from a guy like Mike is you have to be smart enough to ask questions, or figure things out for yourself. Whenever he would touch me with his fists I always noticed it felt twice as hard as when anyone else did, and I'm talking a light fist, just when he'd demonstrate the motion for a punch and barely touch my body. But he never TOLD me this was how to do it, I had to observe it. I'll always consider Mike my Maestro, he opened the doors of my learning the craft, and still when I observe him I can see things I never did before. But learning from a former great isn't easy, they have high expectations and if you don't meet them, they just barely bother.

As for old school fighters, well, most of them used this fist. It preserves the hands as well as possible in either softer gloves, or no gloves.

 

[Discipulus]

I'm loving it. I was hitting the pads in class today and my connection on the cross felt so damn good. My knuckles are sore as hell, especially the middle one on both hands, even with tight wraps, sixteen ounce gloves, and cushy focus mitts. It felt like my middle finger knuckle was connecting flush with his palm. I'm sure he didn't like it, but you can really get a sense of your own power when you connect cleanly and penetrate with your knuckles like that. Ooh yeah.

I find I can't quite do it the way you do, because I have big palms and short thick fingers. So when I try to stack my fingers to get the protrusion you demonstrate, I end up having the second knuckles on the fore and middle fingers stick out a good half-inch farther than the knuckles I should be connecting with. I've always tilted my wrist (that's how I was taught), but seeing you do it I've played around with ****ing it even more and just squeezing with my ring and pinky fingers. That alone gives my knuckles a nice declining angle that lets the first two connect solidly without the others touching at all. You can even see the redness on my knuckles; my right fist has two bright red bumps on the first two knuckles, and the last two are unmarked.

But this rising hook. It's giving me fits, man. I kept trying to land it properly on the bag, and I was really feeling a lot of stress in my shoulder. I wonder if I'm not getting myself into the right position to land the punch? And then I couldn't seem to find the right angle to throw it at. I was hitting the bags bareknuckle after class to try and sort it out, and I hit solidly with it a few times, but otherwise it's not coming easy.

Do you mind if I post up a video showing my rising hook for a little advice?

 

[Sinister]

Not at all. Go for it.

 

[Discipulus]

Alright, I'll see if I can get it up tomorrow.

 

[SwitchPaw]

yeah sinister thank you very,very much. i saw this vid a few days ago and have been practicing it. the contact is so flush and solid without the pain or risk. im sold its just a matter of how long till i dont have to think about it. and since my hands are already conditioned i can now hit a bag without wraps or gloves.i wont..... but i can
also the slight ****ing of the wrist, for me, is key. but thats prob pretty obvious.

 

[Sinister]

So has anyone used this on humans yet?

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

barefist or with gloves?

 

[Sinister]

Either or. I'm interested in the feedback of if any sparring partners noticed a difference in how it felt to BE touched or hit by a proper fist.

 

[WiolentOne]

I hate to say it but for barenuckle fighting, you might wanna check out kimbos street fights and look at his hands, wrists and alignment. He does a similar arch to what is shown in the TS' video.

I just didn't get it. You calling me the little guy?

Well, you are little. :icon_lol:

 

[Pugilistic]

Either or. I'm interested in the feedback of if any sparring partners noticed a difference in how it felt to BE touched or hit by a proper fist.

If it's any indication, I busted my sparring partners lips last night with a right hand, which also happens to be my weakest punch. It's hard to make a proper fist 16oz gloves though.