A moral dillema

[owen_taggart]

Marriage is a union of man and women under God.

Marriage is a union of two consenting adults regardless of sex or gender. Fuck god.

Christian and psychologist don't exactly pair well together.

Psychologist and Peterson don't exactly pair well together.

 

[Dogshare]

As I stated previously, the malicious act is that of cheating. The confession is an act of weakness.

If my wife cheats, she damn well better cover her tracks and take that shit to the grave, not for my sake, for my kids.

In the grand scheme of things, me getting my feeling hurt is entirely trivial relative to affect our home life and parenting has on our children.

If it's about your kids and not about your feelings, then you can always decide to stay with her because of your kids. At least you can choose what you think is best. But you say just don't want to know and basically want to live in a fairy tale.

 

[jeff7b9]

If it's about your kids and not about your feelings, then you can always decide to stay with her because of your kids. At least you can choose what you think is best. But you say just don't want to know and basically want to live in a fairy tale.

This entire subject isn't even on my radar.
The entire debate is hypothetical.

Fairy tales, aside from also being imaginary, have nothing to do with it.

 

[Batjester]

Candles are good too....

Never forget.

 

[Batjester]

Chris Benoit has entered the chat...

 

[Dogshare]

This entire subject isn't even on my radar.
The entire debate is hypothetical.

Fairy tales, aside from also being imaginary, have nothing to do with it.

Yes of course it is hypothetical.

I mean it is like a fairy tale in the sense that you prefer something not real instead of the truth.

If I would cheat it would be way more convenient for me to not tell anything, but if you ask me what the correct thing would be, then I would say to tell her, so she can decide what to do and I have to accept the consequences of my cheating.

 

[jeff7b9]

Yes of course it is hypothetical.

I mean it is like a fairy tale in the sense that you prefer something not real instead of the truth.

If I would cheat it would be way more convenient for me to not tell anything, but if you ask me what the correct thing would be, then I would say to tell her, so she can decide what to do and I have to accept the consequences of my cheating.

Again I would redirect you to the "why" of that decision.

Do you have kids?

If you were to write a schematic of this process, would you choose the path more likely to psychologically damage them?
Opening the door to trust issues, failed relationships, whoring etc?

How old are you?

Do you own a home? Or significant assets which you would be splitting in the event of a divorce?

Are you capable of choosing to never repeat that mistake again? Is your spouse happy and your relationship otherwise worth preserving outside of this hypothetical transgression?

Is it REALLY honesty driving this choice?
Or guilt?

Is it more selfish to place the burden of this act on your partner and put them through the emotional trauma or to shut the fuck up, move forward and be a better person in the future?

I will never have to worry about any of this, I won't cheat on my wife. But i have a happy marriage which makes that a pretty easy choice.

But to pretend it is so simple is disingenuous to me. Or even to attempt to box it in as "the right thing to do" when by the nature of the scenario the "right thing" is already off the table. At which point you are, imo, choosing between harm reduction and patting yourself on the back for a fairly empty gesture of "honesty" while choosing to leave a trainwreck of damage in your wake, most of which being dealt to someone else.

 

[nostradumbass]

I don't get why you're confused about this? Marriage is a union of man and women under God. Marriage troubles are dealt with in the Church.

There's apparently a lot of things you don't get, like the existence of state marriages that have no religious requirement. You can go to a damn courthouse and get married.

Not only does this hypothetical not require any specific religious affiliation, but it doesn't even require marriage at all. It's any serious relationship, and the advice goes double if you have kids with the person.

Or you let her know so that she can decide if she wants to stay with you or not, and by that you accept the consequences of your cheating?

Oh, so just put it on her to either be the one who ends the marriage or be stuck in a marriage with someone she resents and can't trust? Should you tell the kids you fucked someone else too, or are you throwing that hot potato in your wife's lap too?

 

[Cherry Brigand]

Also, Christian and psychologist don't exactly pair well together.

Um, wat?

 

[owen_taggart]

Um, wat?

Well they don't.

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

I want to say it's morally right to kill yourself but I don't want to get dubs so will take a less extreme approach... Morally right to end that relationship after apologizing because they will never trust you again. Probably never date again too. That's my two cents. Nobody wants to be with a cheater.

 

[Cherry Brigand]

Well they don't.

Because....

 

[BlankaPresident]

Dr Joy Browne, a clinical psychologist who had a national call in radio show, always advised people to not tell their significant other about any cheating. She would tell the people who wanted to confess that they only wanted to as an attempt to rid themselves of the guilt and unload it on their partner. She said it's your guilt and you should live with it not dump a problem on someone else. She even went as far as saying if their partner suspected something and asked them, that they should deny, deny and deny. It allows the partner to at least have some doubt. If you tell them, then the other person has to decide whether to end the relationship. If they don't it gives the cheater the feeling that they can keep cheating.

 

[owen_taggart]

Because....

I'd never trust the word of a psychologist who belonged to any religion.

 

[BlankaPresident]

Again I would redirect you to the "why" of that decision.

Do you have kids?

If you were to write a schematic of this process, would you choose the path more likely to psychologically damage them?
Opening the door to trust issues, failed relationships, whoring etc?

How old are you?

Do you own a home? Or significant assets which you would be splitting in the event of a divorce?

Are you capable of choosing to never repeat that mistake again? Is your spouse happy and your relationship otherwise worth preserving outside of this hypothetical transgression?

Is it REALLY honesty driving this choice?
Or guilt?

Is it more selfish to place the burden of this act on your partner and put them through the emotional trauma or to shut the fuck up, move forward and be a better person in the future?

I will never have to worry about any of this, I won't cheat on my wife. But i have a happy marriage which makes that a pretty easy choice.

But to pretend it is so simple is disingenuous to me. Or even to attempt to box it in as "the right thing to do" when by the nature of the scenario the "right thing" is already off the table. At which point you are, imo, choosing between harm reduction and patting yourself on the back for a fairly empty gesture of "honesty" while choosing to leave a trainwreck of damage in your wake, most of which being dealt to someone else.

That is a situation where people better be consequentialist and accept that nothing good will ever come off from a confession.

You put the burden on your partner to decide, either end the relationship or be in the often humiliating situation of keeping a cheater by their side. And for what, some imaginary medal of truthfulness and honor that you already trashed by cheating in the first place?

Owning up to your mistakes in this case you won't fix anything, won't compensate anything, won't make your partner's life better. Just swallow it, move on and never do it again.

 

[Alphaboy]

I greatly enjoyed the other moral thread and youtube recently suggested me a 2.5 minute video where Jordan Peterson discusses the moral dilemma of infidelity in marriage.

The dilemma: you have cheated on your wife or husband some time ago (a week, month, whatever) and now you have stopped. So is it morally right to tell your spouse and be honest with them or is it morally right for you to bear that burden of shame and not destroy your family.

The answer as Jordan sees it:
You shouldn't tell them. It's your problem, not theirs to deal with. Take it to the grave. To tell them is to inflict suffering.

My reaction: fucking utter shock. I disagree with him. It's a short video so who knows if he addresses the issue of what if they find out later and the compounding harm that would cause. I mean you can not be certain they will never know and it will hurt even worse later, such a betrayal.

BUT then I wondered what my life would have been like... if my dad never told my mom. If they never split up when I was 9. Would my life be better? Would I be happier? Would I be struggling with the same emotional demons and problems? Fuck man... who knows.


What does sherdog think? About the dilemma not my therapy session with youtube.

A friend of mine had a similar debate a long time ago.

Coming clean only serves the purpose of making you feel better at the expense of your significant other's pain. So you're following up a selfish action with another selfish action.

This is a weird thing because if you asked any of us if we'd want our significant other to come clean, we'd pretty much all say yes!

On the other hand it seems like not confessing is the selfish action because you're getting off scot-free with the transgression... unless you feel guilt. It also feels like you're doing the right thing because you're giving your SO a choice, rather than allowing them to continue the relationship in ignorance.

There seems to be a good argument for both sides.

 

[AZ103]

I guess the key is whether you're really going to stop.

If not, then you're just a cheater who doesn't want to get caught.

But if you really did stop cheating and will never do it again, then it's about you carrying the guilt on your own and not burdening others with your shameful secret.

What about the fact that if they find out later now not only cheat but you've lied about it for years or decades? A lie of omission is a lie. You're essentially setting a bomb with an unknown date of destruction and hoping you die before it goes off.

 

[AZ103]

Why though?

The "right thing to do" for WHO?

The harmful act was the cheating.
That is the cardinal sin here.

The disclosure is to alleviate the guilt of the cheater.
It is not going to make the relationship better.
It is not going to build trust.
It does not undo the betrayal.

It just hurts the innocent party.

Exactly how is that better?

See my post above. Because now you've cheated and are lying every day.

 

[AZ103]

Dr Joy Browne, a clinical psychologist who had a national call in radio show, always advised people to not tell their significant other about any cheating. She would tell the people who wanted to confess that they only wanted to as an attempt to rid themselves of the guilt and unload it on their partner. She said it's your guilt and you should live with it not dump a problem on someone else. She even went as far as saying if their partner suspected something and asked them, that they should deny, deny and deny. It allows the partner to at least have some doubt. If you tell them, then the other person has to decide whether to end the relationship. If they don't it gives the cheater the feeling that they can keep cheating.

Wow. Fuck her. To never tell is bad enough. To lie to your spouse outright if asked? You take a vow and then lie to the person you took it with about the most intimate part of that vow. Psychologists are disgusting me today. This is like when France banned men from getting paternity tests or 23 and me or whatever because it was "ruining families".

 

[AZ103]

You should not be listening to Jordan Peterson for moral advice. He is not a good person. He is not wrong 100% of the time but generally doing the opposite of what he says is the way.

I don't think a 2.5 minute clip that I'm clearly debating with in the OP is enough to defile me. And I think he's a good guy.

Or you let her know so that she can decide if she wants to stay with you or not, and by that you accept the consequences of your cheating?

Right?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! To honor the fact they should be able to have autonomy in their own marriage?! Like who the fuck are you to decide that they must live in a deception of the highest order that you yourself have made for them? It's twisted.