A judo man would never tap to Kesa gatame.

[NSchoke]

Btw Dean and Barnett are two of my absolute fave grapplers. I wish we had more guys like them to bring variety into the game.

Its cool to see guys from other disciplines get BJJ Black Belts like these 2. It really makes for a nightmare of a guy to deal with.

 

[mysteriousnwza]

It is almost impossible to escape a properly sunk kesa from a skilled opponent. The problem with traditional kesa is definitely not that it can easily be escaped. The problem is that it doesn't have great transitions. In sports where you can win by pinning, this is not a problem, but for BJJ, it is not usually ideal. Notice that Barnett used the kesa at the very end of the match, btw ... this was smart use of the clock by him, he didn't need any transition options at that point.

Btw, there are tons of different kesa escapes people will show you. The problem is that, like so many grappling moves, they don't actually work in high-level competition. In actual high-level judo competition, the only kesa escape that works at a high percentage is turning into the guy and going to your knees. I have read an analysis of high-level judo competitions where they analyzed pin escapes. When osaekomi (pin) is established, the bottom guy escaped only 1/3 of the time. When he did escape, in 100% of the cases it was by turning in and escaping the arm. Not one bridge roll, not one "kesa to kesa," not one armbar counter. Those are gym escapes; I use them all the time myself, but against a high level competitor, you must defend earlier by defeating the control and turning in, not letting a strong pin get established. If you let it get established, you are fucked.

where do you read that analysis zankou? is available online?

 

[Zankou]

Yep here it is.

http://judoinfo.com/weers7.htm

Judoinfo has a lot of these analysis papers.

"True, it is interesting to know that World class players can escape 31.6% of the time, but the real question is how do they escape. This is where the research gets very interesting. Of the 19 escapes observed 19 of the escapes were Uphill Turns. That's right! The only escape that was successful, in World and Olympic level Judo competition, was the Uphill Turn."

 

[nefti]

is the uphill turn going out the back door?

 

[Zankou]

Yeah it just means turning into the guy and going to your knees, aka going out the back door with the underhook.

Turning away is generally useless because if he has thrown you, he 99% likely is controlling your sleeve with your arm outstretched, which kills your ability to turn away.

To do the near escape, I like to visualize hurling my opponent's face right into the mat, using a bridge with a belt grip or underhook, while pulling the arm free. Look for the KO. You have to do it really, really hard. If your neck is being cranked up like Barnett did to Lister, it's too late, you can't bridge enough to break your opponent's balance.

 

[nefti]

against really strong judo/wrestling pin guys. I always had trouble getting out though the back. For some reason, going to my knees and knee tapping worked better for me.

 

[mysteriousnwza]

Yep here it is.

http://judoinfo.com/weers7.htm

Judoinfo has a lot of these analysis papers.

"True, it is interesting to know that World class players can escape 31.6% of the time, but the real question is how do they escape. This is where the research gets very interesting. Of the 19 escapes observed 19 of the escapes were Uphill Turns. That's right! The only escape that was successful, in World and Olympic level Judo competition, was the Uphill Turn."

thankss a lot man!

 

[LoRezzz]

Youre right TS.

Judo men are samurai, every one else are geishas

Obviously, this is the point. Terrible troll.

 

[ShindoNinja]

Last night I was shocked to see Josh Barnett tap a world class grappler like Dean Lister in a position so basic in Judo that I have seen children master it. Cross training with a lot of BJJ I learned that most of them have no idea what to do or how to defend the kesa gatame position. When I use it on jujisu guys they become like fish out of water. Flailing and thrashing trying to get out of position but to no avail. Actual the only defense that Jujitsu guys use against me that work is cross facing the face and throwing legs over. But this only works because you can't touch the face in Judo, but once you readjust your weight and learn this defense, not even this technique will work.

I have watched thousands of Judo matches in my life and never once have I seen someone tap to kesa gatame. Is this because Judo guys have more Budo than BJJ guys? Probably not..but I would like you BJJ guys to do your homework on this position and maybe cross train at your local Judo club and learn it from real masters.

That was not "kesa" in the form that judo players use it. The neck crank part of it was illegal in Judo and Barnett had a modified grip that was choking Lister to. Lister didn't tap to top pressure. You can see this in the slow mo replay.

 

[beepee]

That was not "kesa" in the form that judo players use it. The neck crank part of it was illegal in Judo and Barnett had a modified grip that was choking Lister to. Lister didn't tap to top pressure. You can see this in the slow mo replay.

You're obviously right about the difference with the neck crank but tapping from kesa pressure isn't unusual especially after 20 minutes. Its a miserable position to be caught in especially when you're exhausted like that.

 

[beepee]

Yep here it is.

http://judoinfo.com/weers7.htm

Judoinfo has a lot of these analysis papers.

"True, it is interesting to know that World class players can escape 31.6% of the time, but the real question is how do they escape. This is where the research gets very interesting. Of the 19 escapes observed 19 of the escapes were Uphill Turns. That's right! The only escape that was successful, in World and Olympic level Judo competition, was the Uphill Turn."

Thanks for posting that zankou, really interesting reading!!

 

[Thrawn33]

I'm a judo man and I've tapped to Kesa, they may be illegal in judo but neck cranks do happen...

 

[DoMn8]

Forget it Yonny. You're out of your element.

Ha.