Social A Judge Asked Harvard to Find Out Why So Many Black People Were In Prison

[djacobox372]

This was a question that never needed to be asked. Crime. That’s the only way you go to jail. You commit a crime. Why do blacks do crime? High percentage of poor black youth raised by single mothers that are not prepared to raise a child in a bad environment, you don’t teach kids right from wrong, they commit crimes. Poor whites do as well.

There are a lot of steps in the system between the crime and the jail sentence.

Imagine that two groups commit the exact same amount and severity of crime.

Group 1 is caught 10% more often due to increased police scrutiny
Group 1 is convicted at 10% higher rate than Group 2
Group 1 receives 10% more jail time Group 2

10% doesn't seem like much (definitely within the range of current day race bias)

Yet 10% bumps in these three things result in roughly 30% more imprisonment of group 1 compared to group b.

 

[skaleton]

http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=911



http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=911

Answers nothing. Its the same quote. I didnt ask where you got the quote. I asked who you think that culture is. Everything I see seems to suggest it is a black culture the arabs probably traded with, talking shit about a different black culture.

The Romans said the Germans and those from the British Isles were barbarians. The people from the British Isles said the Norse were barbarians. Right now we say Middle Easterns, the same people who "wrote" that quote are a barbaric culture. As an extra reason your quote holds little weight the dude writing that has never met the culture hes shit talking. He says he's "heard" it. He's not sourcing who told him. He doesn't even know the Zanj people from that quote.

People have talked shit about enemies for thousands of years.
Who do you think the Bujja are?
I know the Zanj are blacks that are being talked shit about. But it seems to me its just a warring black culture talking shit about an enemy who also happens to be black.

Let's pretend the quote is true. The source of knowledge for your author is probably a separate black culture who he doesnt equate those attributes to. I say that for all the reasons I stated in my last post.

 

[skaleton]

No sure what benefit a random explorer would have from lying. Too much of a coincidence though to just dismiss it imo.
Agree to disagree buddeh

Pretend he didnt lie. That is a single black culture. Lets say they are fatherless cannibals. How do you extrapolate that to all black cultures in 1331?

 

[The ScorpioN]

Pretend he didnt lie. That is a single black culture. Lets say they are fatherless cannibals. How do you extrapolate that to all black cultures in 1331?

You don't have to extrapolate it to all black culture, Africa is pretty big. But if these people are related to the Bantu who genocided their way across sub Saharan Africa and took over large parts of it, especially from where our slaves came, then it's not far fetched to see a connection in behavior. Otherwise it'd be a pretty interesting coincidence.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

There are a lot of steps in the system between the crime and the jail sentence.

Imagine that two groups commit the exact same amount and severity of crime.

Group 1 is caught 10% more often due to increased police scrutiny
Group 1 is convicted at 10% higher rate than Group 2
Group 1 receives 10% more jail time Group 2

10% doesn't seem like much (definitely within the range of current day race bias)

Yet 10% bumps in these three things result in roughly 30% more imprisonment of group 1 compared to group b.

32.7%?

 

[freakroor]

Imagine never being a slave and not knowing anyone alive who was a slave, but being "traumatized" by it

Slaves had their entire history and culture taken from them. Their were yanked from their roots and shipped across the world where they suffered for generations under brutal conditions with no freedom, no sense of identity, and barely any hope.

If you cant see how that would profoundly affect that population and their descendents for the rest of time, then idk what to say to you.

American descendents of slavery are a unique group that , due to the circumstances that brought them here, are not comparable to other immigrant groups in america.

 

[skaleton]

You don't have to extrapolate it to all black culture, Africa is pretty big. But if these people are related to the Bantu who genocided their way across sub Saharan Africa and took over large parts of it, especially from where our slaves came, then it's not far fetched to see a connection in behavior. Otherwise it'd be a pretty interesting coincidence.

Ok. So, your stance is that...
1 The Zanj are a culture/biological group that is where the US historically got a large percentage of its slaves.
2 You believe this biological group to have "bad"? traits. Dumb, aggressive etc.
3 You base this on the passage we are discussing and the fact that they genocided their way across Africa.

1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
This backs the first claim above up. 40% of US slaves come from this area. Now whether they are Zanj people or people captured by the Zanj and sold I dont know but for the sake of your argument lets say they are Zanj.

2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj
"The Zanj were for centuries shipped as slaves by Arab traders to all the countries bordering the Indian Ocean."
---- To me this begins to look like @kenetics claim that they are slaves and the people who sell them as slaves
probably talk shit about them to make the enslavement morally "ok"---

"Arab descriptions of the Zanj peoples have been inconsistent"...it then goes on to include your quote.
It also includes the quote below...
"In 1331, the Arabic-speaking Berber explorer Ibn Battuta visited the Kilwa Sultanate in the Zanj" he goes on to say this about them "Their chief qualities are devotion and piety: they follow the Shafi'i sect."
--- This could still mean they are dumb. But they arent looking very aggressive. Also the description includes
that the main relationship with the Zanj at this point is to raid their community and kidnap them. Again. This
is looking like Kenetics points above.---

"The Zanj traded with Arabs, Turks and Indians, but according to some sources, only locally, since they possessed no ocean-going ships. According to other sources, the heavily Bantu Swahili peoples already had seafaring vessels with sailors and merchants trading with Arabia and Persia, and as far east as India and China."
---- It goes on to describe them as potential early era sailors and ship makers. Traits I dont associate with dumb.-----

3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj
"However, Zanj refers more to the state of religion than color or origin."
--- Sounds like we aren't even dealing with one biological group of people. I see nothing about them
genociding across Africa at this time in history. And if they did it sounds like a cultural genocide, not a
biological genocide.

Lets take it one step further and say they did biologically genocide from the east of the continent all the
way to the west of the continent. Sounds like they were the African equivalent to the U.S.A. Even this
assumption means we take your statement at face value and ignore my point above about cultural genocide instead of biological genocide.----
__________________________________
Everything Ive written above is giving your interpretation the greatest weight I can. I still see no way that I can believe that original quote to be accurate and not just a hit job from their enslavers.

The Romans called the Germans dumb barbarians. They called the people of the British Isles dumb barbarians.
The people from the British Isles called the Norse dumb barbarians.
Today, we call the people (Arabs) that wrote the quote we are discussing dumb barbarians.
People throughout history talk shit about enemies, particularly those that they treat poorly.

Kenetics pointed out that during slavery we said black people were as dumb as dogs.
We also passed laws that made it illegal to teach a slave to read.
Im pretty sure I cant teach my dog to read. Instead it seems to me we say "black people were as dumb as dogs." as a way to morally rationalize inhumane treatment of another person.

As far as bad behavior goes. If you put me in chains and stole my wife and took me from my home I hope Id be a naughty slave. We have texts from antebellum period where some slaves are described as lazy, ungrateful or aggressive. How do you feel about the statement "I'd rather die a freeman than live as a slave."? Those lazy ungrateful aggressive slaves sound like my kind of people.

Precivil war black people were said to have the subservient gene. Post civil war they have the aggressive gene. Thats one helluva evolution to occur over the course of two decades.

 

[surrealworlds]

Wow? That's from Harvard? Weird, because it's obvious garbage, or perhaps just the article you linked describing the study is garbage.

Byline is "Michael Harriot -World renowned wypipologist"

Lol. Seems like a person with balanced racial views.

You know, at 38 years old and fairly well read i don't often come across terms i've never heard of. I had to look it up.

"Wypipologist is a humorous slang term for someone, usually a black person, who " studies" wypipo, or "white people." "

Can't say i was terribly surprised.

 

[Bob Gray]

They are. It'd interesting that the black family survived Jim crow and slavery, but not welfare.
Blacks were actually succeeding despite the system set up to hold them down. Soon as welfare shower up all their gains were wiped out. The commies got them hard

This is actually something that's not very well known and I'm glad someone brought it up. For all the criticism of the war on drugs, none of the same people criticize LBJs "War on Poverty" with the same zeal despite it's disastrous consequences.

 

[kenetics]

Ok. So, your stance is that...
1 The Zanj are a culture/biological group that is where the US historically got a large percentage of its slaves.
2 You believe this biological group to have "bad"? traits. Dumb, aggressive etc.
3 You base this on the passage we are discussing and the fact that they genocided their way across Africa.

1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
This backs the first claim above up. 40% of US slaves come from this area. Now whether they are Zanj people or people captured by the Zanj and sold I dont know but for the sake of your argument lets say they are Zanj.

2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj
"The Zanj were for centuries shipped as slaves by Arab traders to all the countries bordering the Indian Ocean."
---- To me this begins to look like @kenetics claim that they are slaves and the people who sell them as slaves
probably talk shit about them to make the enslavement morally "ok"---

"Arab descriptions of the Zanj peoples have been inconsistent"...it then goes on to include your quote.
It also includes the quote below...
"In 1331, the Arabic-speaking Berber explorer Ibn Battuta visited the Kilwa Sultanate in the Zanj" he goes on to say this about them "Their chief qualities are devotion and piety: they follow the Shafi'i sect."
--- This could still mean they are dumb. But they arent looking very aggressive. Also the description includes
that the main relationship with the Zanj at this point is to raid their community and kidnap them. Again. This
is looking like Kenetics points above.---

"The Zanj traded with Arabs, Turks and Indians, but according to some sources, only locally, since they possessed no ocean-going ships. According to other sources, the heavily Bantu Swahili peoples already had seafaring vessels with sailors and merchants trading with Arabia and Persia, and as far east as India and China."
---- It goes on to describe them as potential early era sailors and ship makers. Traits I dont associate with dumb.-----

3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj
"However, Zanj refers more to the state of religion than color or origin."
--- Sounds like we aren't even dealing with one biological group of people. I see nothing about them
genociding across Africa at this time in history. And if they did it sounds like a cultural genocide, not a
biological genocide.

Lets take it one step further and say they did biologically genocide from the east of the continent all the
way to the west of the continent. Sounds like they were the African equivalent to the U.S.A. Even this
assumption means we take your statement at face value and ignore my point above about cultural genocide instead of biological genocide.----
__________________________________
Everything Ive written above is giving your interpretation the greatest weight I can. I still see no way that I can believe that original quote to be accurate and not just a hit job from their enslavers.

The Romans called the Germans dumb barbarians. They called the people of the British Isles dumb barbarians.
The people from the British Isles called the Norse dumb barbarians.
Today, we call the people (Arabs) that wrote the quote we are discussing dumb barbarians.
People throughout history talk shit about enemies, particularly those that they treat poorly.

Kenetics pointed out that during slavery we said black people were as dumb as dogs.
We also passed laws that made it illegal to teach a slave to read.
Im pretty sure I cant teach my dog to read. Instead it seems to me we say "black people were as dumb as dogs." as a way to morally rationalize inhumane treatment of another person.

As far as bad behavior goes. If you put me in chains and stole my wife and took me from my home I hope Id be a naughty slave. We have texts from antebellum period where some slaves are described as lazy, ungrateful or aggressive. How do you feel about the statement "I'd rather die a freeman than live as a slave."? Those lazy ungrateful aggressive slaves sound like my kind of people.

Precivil war black people were said to have the subservient gene. Post civil war they have the aggressive gene. Thats one helluva evolution to occur over the course of two decades.

Well said.

 

[second sight]

here's what I don't get, have these people been to any government offices lately, minorities make up just about their entire workforce, DA's, prosecutors, probation officers etc

same thing for the police departments. if they want to study something check out how many black judges hand down prison sentences to black criminals, then compare that to white sentences being handed down by the same judge

 

[ElKarlo]

This is actually something that's not very well known and I'm glad someone brought it up. For all the criticism of the war on drugs, none of the same people criticize LBJs "War on Poverty" with the same zeal despite it's disastrous consequences.

Yeah trying to help the black family unit is what damaged it the most.

 

[I Am Legion]

There are a lot of steps in the system between the crime and the jail sentence.

Imagine that two groups commit the exact same amount and severity of crime.

Group 1 is caught 10% more often due to increased police scrutiny
Group 1 is convicted at 10% higher rate than Group 2
Group 1 receives 10% more jail time Group 2

10% doesn't seem like much (definitely within the range of current day race bias)

Yet 10% bumps in these three things result in roughly 30% more imprisonment of group 1 compared to group b.

If you own a store and all of the Black People hair care products are being shoplifted to the point that the shelves are empty and there are none sold in the system, do you follow Asians around the store? If you have an area that is filled with people that are committing crimes, and have committed crimes over the course of time, do you put more police or less police there? If you have a system where repeat offenders, group a, are given harsher sentences than first time offenders, group b, is that racism if group a is a different race?