A Basic Study of Angles and Good Footwork (Gif Heavy)

[MeatballMagnus]

Those gifs are less about footwork and more about Pettis' natural ability to deliver a kick, although obviosuly footwork plays a role in all of those gifs, I wouldn't say that they were the main part of him landing.

 

[a guy]

Those gifs are less about footwork and more about Pettis' natural ability to deliver a kick, although obviosuly footwork plays a role in all of those gifs, I wouldn't say that they were the main part of him landing.

Not the main part, but the footwork is a big deal. The point of the thread is to put an emphasis on the footwork and the role it plays, even when there are other factors.

 

[a guy]

What do you mean here ? Can you elaborate ?

BTW, the fact that Mercer lost quite some fights is really amazing to me. I mean, how the fuck fighter of this quality can even lose ? He had all natural talent in the world - chin, punch, reach, speed, mentally strong. On top of that, he had really good technique. And still lost here and there.

Just shows how unbelievable the talent pool in boxing was back then.

I mean how he uses his lead arm to control the opponent's head, whether by pulling it, pushing it or holding it in place. A good example is at 1:50. He pulls the head down and lands a right uppercut. Not necessarily legal, but very savvy and something that can be used freely in MMA :icon_chee

I haven't seen many of his fights though.

 

[ssullivan80]

Those gifs are less about footwork and more about Pettis' natural ability to deliver a kick, although obviosuly footwork plays a role in all of those gifs, I wouldn't say that they were the main part of him landing.

Natural ability to "deliver a kick" is for shit if your not in a position to deliver the kick in the first place....... being in the right position is the bi-product of footwork....... so yeah, Petis is very good at delivering his kicks, but what translates that natural ability to effective results is that he get's into position to deliver kicks...... Hence, his footwork isn't what plays the role in his natural ability to throw a kick, but it damn sure is why his natural ability produces results with those kicks.

 

[WillW]

Never saw Thurman fights - will watch something because of your suggestion.
About Hagler - which fight do you recommend to see the stance switching ?

P.S.
The guy who rely on switching stances\switch hitting A LOT is Orlando Salido.
I would even say that all his footwork is built on that, IMO. Worked for him even with Lomachenko.

Hagler would use his switch stance to move in, on the inside and to cut off. I havent seen too many of his fights in some time, except was watching Hagler vs. Herns the other day, exciting fight...horrible ending:icon_sad:

Salido is spot on as far as switching goes. but he goes about it in a very odd way, I cannot quite put my finger on it. Im sure his opponents get frustrated with it. Was watching his fight with JML. At times he looks brilliant with it, but other times get himself in trouble with it. Its very strange to be honest. I guess there is a method to the madness. He threw right hand and brought his right foot up then threw a SP st. left, then did a check hook and finished with a rear uppercut, that had good effect.
Also watched his fight with Garcia where he got beat pretty decently. Do you know anybody else that fights like him?

Those gifs are less about footwork and more about Pettis' natural ability to deliver a kick, although obviosuly footwork plays a role in all of those gifs, I wouldn't say that they were the main part of him landing.

No doubt. You hear sometimes "this guy is a natural puncher" well pettis is a natural kicker. His dexterity, speed, accuracy, all while being perfectly balanced. That is not easy to come by.

 

[shpboris]

Hagler would use his switch stance to move in, on the inside and to cut off. I havent seen too many of his fights in some time, except was watching Hagler vs. Herns the other day, exciting fight...horrible ending:icon_sad:

Salido is spot on as far as switching goes. but he goes about it in a very odd way, I cannot quite put my finger on it. Im sure his opponents get frustrated with it. Was watching his fight with JML. At times he looks brilliant with it, but other times get himself in trouble with it. Its very strange to be honest. I guess there is a method to the madness. He threw right hand and brought his right foot up then threw a SP st. left, then did a check hook and finished with a rear uppercut, that had good effect.
Also watched his fight with Garcia where he got beat pretty decently. Do you know anybody else that fights like him?

Dmitry Pirog who was a WBO champ used similar stance switching technique very heavily (I think I even posted some of his videos in this thread). All his footwork was like this.

Also in amateur boxing Oleg Saitov (i believe, he was 2-time Olympic champ) did that as well.

Some guys do that occasionally to cut opponent off, create angles, close distance quicker or just to keep themselves in some kind of balance after heaviy right hand - Duran, Froch, Hopkins, Maidana etc ... BTW, JT later in his career did that as well.

 

[Phantomill2k2k6]

Pettis kick are probably seen as great in a mma context but as a tae kwon do praticioneer his kick are just horrible, props to lauzon for raising the opposite knee than needed while he can see Pettis left leg behind .. and stepping into it though if anything standup wise his punch and cardio is his best asset.

He'll probably score a few more wins and be called a legend until they match him someone with the skill and mental to beat him though.

 

[GoatyP]

#2 that dude's stance is way too wide! he couldn't block the kick in time and flailed with his arm going, "OH SHIT". you can see his front leg going up but nooooope.

 

[WillW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5p4fPaAI2I

look how toney deals with the 1.2.
he is also a master at getting in position for his right hand to land. patience and timing.
Locche clowing his guys
Sweet Pea doin his thing. classic stuff.

side note: I know a lot of coaches tell you not to bend at the waist, but you see a lot of guys in the gym and pro's doing it as well. Floyd is a master at it. I notice that it gives you different options. less able to attack out of it, but harder to hit you at the same time as your covering more space bending at waist vs. just using knees and hips. anyone got any advice for this type of defense?

also how do you guys think Floyd vs. Toney or RJJ would go?

Dmitry Pirog who was a WBO champ used similar stance switching technique very heavily (I think I even posted some of his videos in this thread). All his footwork was like this.

Also in amateur boxing Oleg Saitov (i believe, he was 2-time Olympic champ) did that as well.

Some guys do that occasionally to cut opponent off, create angles, close distance quicker or just to keep themselves in some kind of balance after heaviy right hand - Duran, Froch, Hopkins, Maidana etc ... BTW, JT later in his career did that as well.

Good stuff. I find switch hitting to be very valuable and that hard, but being able to fight strictly SP has always been a problem of mine for some reason. Any tips, to break that mental wall where switching things around isnt that hard?

Pettis kick are probably seen as great in a mma context but as a tae kwon do praticioneer his kick are just horrible, props to lauzon for raising the opposite knee than needed while he can see Pettis left leg behind .. and stepping into it though if anything standup wise his punch and cardio is his best asset.

He'll probably score a few more wins and be called a legend until they match him someone with the skill and mental to beat him though.

could you please elaborate on his kicking technique that you dont like? Never done TKD but spent some time with MT in the past. you'll often find different kicking techniques. Some work better for others than they may for you. It depends.

 

[ssullivan80]

side note: I know a lot of coaches tell you not to bend at the waist, but you see a lot of guys in the gym and pro's doing it as well. Floyd is a master at it. I notice that it gives you different options. less able to attack out of it, but harder to hit you at the same time as your covering more space bending at waist vs. just using knees and hips. anyone got any advice for this type of defense?

Bending at the waist isn't the issue, it's not incorporating the shift in weight (hips) when bending at the waist that get's guys out of position...... that's what causes a guys head to get outside of his feet. Head outside of edges of feet, over front foot, behind rear heel = stuck out of position, which is what leaves a guy compromised both offensively and defensively.

In short, bending at the waist is problematic if it's done as an isolated movement and not predicated by a shift in weight (hips and knees as you describe).

 

[Discipulus]

Pettis kick are probably seen as great in a mma context but as a tae kwon do praticioneer his kick are just horrible

Thank goodness he's not competing in Taekwondo, then.

 

[jerellem]

Damn, alot of this is going over my head. I really don't understand the benefits of being at certain angles and what actually makes it an advantage to be at certain angles. I don't understand the ways to exploit your opponent from certain angles. It may be time for me to join a new gym.

 

[Discipulus]

Damn, alot of this is going over my head. I really don't understand the benefits of being at certain angles and what actually makes it an advantage to be at certain angles. I don't understand the ways to exploit your opponent from certain angles. It may be time for me to join a new gym.

Basically, you want your position to accomplish two things.

1) You can hit your opponent, but he can't hit you. Usually this is expanded to "you can hit him cleanly and he can't hit you cleanly." You're rarely going to find an angle against a competent opponent from which he can't hit you at all, but the idea is to minimize risk to yourself and maximize risk to him. Which brings me to...

2) Your shots will do maximum damage. Often this means catching your opponent in such a way that his balance is compromised. For example, if you stand right in front of someone in a good stance and hit him with a right hand, the force of that punch will travel down his back, through his back leg and into the floor. This is because he was well positioned to absorb damage. In other words, his strong stance allows him to dissipate the force of your punch.

Now, if you move to his left, with him still facing the same direction as before, and hit him with the same right hand, he is much more likely to be hurt by it. Without his back foot directly opposite the force of your punch, his balance, and therefore his durability, is compromised, and a lot more of your punch will be absorbed by his head alone, rather than dissipating.

There are a ton of factors, but those are the two basic things you want to achieve when you move your feet. You're trying to hit him without letting him hit you, and you're trying to hurt him when you do.

 

[SummerStriker]

Damn, alot of this is going over my head. I really don't understand the benefits of being at certain angles and what actually makes it an advantage to be at certain angles. I don't understand the ways to exploit your opponent from certain angles. It may be time for me to join a new gym.

Martial arts is an art, and after a few years of tracing and coloring in the lines, you have to start building yourself.

I've been to a lot of gyms, and over the last two years, I've been a visitor in 5 different gyms for professional fighters for classes and sparring. I have never, ever, encountered any sort of intellectual discussion of angles. People here are building this knowledge out of personal self interest. If you like it, think it all through and take it with you.

 

[Discipulus]

Aslo interesting breakdown related to footwork and angles -

[YT]OCqyLKt9DpI[/YT]

I'm not sure I follow everything Kenshin's trying to point out in that video, but it's well done, and I'm fascinated by the footwork of Lucien Carbin's fighters. He's like the Brendan Ingle of kickboxing.

 

[Discipulus]

Martial arts is an art, and after a few years of tracing and coloring in the lines, you have to start building yourself.

I've been to a lot of gyms, and over the last two years, I've been a visitor in 5 different gyms for professional fighters for classes and sparring. I have never, ever, encountered any sort of intellectual discussion of angles. People here are building this knowledge out of personal self interest. If you like it, think it all through and take it with you.

Good advice. Coaches like that are out there, but they're certainly few and far between. This forum is a great resource if you're looking to supplement your gym time with some exploration.

It can't hurt to watch fights, either. Pick a few guys whose styles you like, and watch what they do. Look at their knockouts and other big moments of success, and then rewatch the fight prior over and over, asking yourself "Why did that punch land? Why didn't the opponent stop it? What did he do to set it up?"

Basically, in the absence of personal instruction, it can be very helpful to "reverse engineer" high level fights.

 

[a guy]

Damn, alot of this is going over my head. I really don't understand the benefits of being at certain angles and what actually makes it an advantage to be at certain angles. I don't understand the ways to exploit your opponent from certain angles. It may be time for me to join a new gym.

Discipulus gave a good answer. If you want a little more, check out this thread: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f11/overview-positioning-2580495/

 

[a guy]

Natural ability to "deliver a kick" is for shit if your not in a position to deliver the kick in the first place....... being in the right position is the bi-product of footwork....... so yeah, Petis is very good at delivering his kicks, but what translates that natural ability to effective results is that he get's into position to deliver kicks...... Hence, his footwork isn't what plays the role in his natural ability to throw a kick, but it damn sure is why his natural ability produces results with those kicks.

Well said

 

[devante]

Martial arts is an art, and after a few years of tracing and coloring in the lines, you have to start building yourself.

I've been to a lot of gyms, and over the last two years, I've been a visitor in 5 different gyms for professional fighters for classes and sparring. I have never, ever, encountered any sort of intellectual discussion of angles. People here are building this knowledge out of personal self interest. If you like it, think it all through and take it with you.

I have had the opposite experience ...then again I am very open to criticism and very willing to initiate these converstlations...not every place has been so enlightened but more than a few have been.

A female striking coach ..owner of the gyms wife, fmr American kickboxer..muay Thai fighter and tkd competitor made people sit down and talk about the sparring session and would break down how and why a guy did what he did/how and why it worked.

One of the best training/sparring session I ever been a part of it...saw me spar twice..hard contact and essentially explained what I did why I did it how it worked..why it didn't work in certain spots and what I needed to do to maximize it based on her perception of me my temperament my skillset and my approach/philosophy.

Most other coaches are willing to talk...but she, outside of saamag, was the only one who initiated the convo....

 

[devante]

Sidenote alot of guys just don't want to consider much less apply finer points of the games...alot of guys just want to go....

I seen hobbyist amateur and pros go on auto pilot when their coach or training partner is pointing out an issue as it pertains to spacing..angles...timing..movement..setups..stance..etc.

Alot of coaches just get tired of providing info to people who a)don't acknowledge it and b)don't attempt to use it.