5x5 Question/Rant

As everyone has touched on, the reason you see everyone suggesting the 5 x 5 is because a lot of the times they are answering the same question in a different thread. If a beginner asks for a suggested routine without giving a ton of info on their background, goals, etc, it's hard to argue against 5 x 5 as a good start.
Recently, I hit a plateau. I had many suggestions on a new routine. I am going to go with a routine that Ed Coan follows. I wouldn't have found that routine without suggestions from here.
It all comes down to specifics and the level of interest of who you are talking to. If someone wanted to talk to me about mma, the conversation would be drastically different if I was talking to a beginner compared to an expert.
 
Sherpa said:
Lifters/fighters/boxers/dog groomers/whatever who really want to get strong don't need to see that 5x5 is the alpha and omega. NEWS FLASH: Bench Pressing 5x5, decline dumbell pressing a few sets, then running a mile will not help you get stronger.
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I don't see what that has to do with the 5x5.
5x5s are not just about doing 5 sets of 5 reps of something - it's the big heavy basic compound lifts, and it's a way to progress, so I don't get what you're trying to say above?
 
I have come to the conclusion after reading every post:

The TS does not know as much as he would like to think.
 
You're right, but it does do a good job setting up a starting point for people who don't know what they're doing in the gym, delivers results pretty consistently as far as cookie cutter routines go, lets people know they don't need 3x8 on 10 types of curls to train, and points them in the right direction. 5x5 recommendations are an easy way to steer a noob in a more enlightened direction. 5x5 works and it's simple.
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bingo.

let's not forget here that since we are working blind since we can't see how a person trains, we want to minimalize any margin of error since I've seen it countless times working in a gym, name it, I've seen it.

Now, there are also a lot of good programs out there as good as or even better than the 5x5... however, the rule of keeping things simple is one of the best reasons why people here prescribe the 5x5.

Intermediate or advanced lifters may be better off doing other routines, but let's always consider the goal's and starting point of each individual.

to keep it simple: beginners, guys who have come from a long layoff and guys learning a new movement will do good with a 5x5. Any other individual, there are other good routines.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the program gets your stronger
 
Progressive overload is what makes someone stronger. The 5x5 is only one way to induce it. There is nothing magical about 5 set of 5 reps. It is a good way for a lot of people to stress the body. If you want to get stronger, I would worry less about a "perfect" program and instead concern yourself with the blood, sweat and pain of each training session, which is required to stress the body and induce adaptation. Your only goal is to do more than you did before. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you never really worked that hard in the gym.
 
Take every big strong motherfucker on the planet, and they all have one thing in common: They press, pull, and squat heavy shit consistently. The method to their madness is secondary. 5x5 is a good starting point towards getting people doing those exercises that count. There is nothing magical about it and nothing wrong with it.
 
enright3060 said:
Progressive overload is what makes someone stronger. The 5x5 is only one way to induce it. There is nothing magical about 5 set of 5 reps. It is a good way for a lot of people to stress the body. If you want to get stronger, I would worry less about a "perfect" program and instead concern yourself with the blood, sweat and pain of each training session, which is required to stress the body and induce adaptation. Your only goal is to do more than you did before. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you never really worked that hard in the gym.
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****
 
enright3060 said:
Progressive overload is what makes someone stronger. The 5x5 is only one way to induce it. There is nothing magical about 5 set of 5 reps. It is a good way for a lot of people to stress the body. If you want to get stronger, I would worry less about a "perfect" program and instead concern yourself with the blood, sweat and pain of each training session, which is required to stress the body and induce adaptation. Your only goal is to do more than you did before. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you never really worked that hard in the gym.
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That is sig worthy!
 
dvermillion15 said:
I have come to the conclusion after reading every post:

The TS does not know as much as he would like to think.
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You're correct. The 5x5 routine that Bill Star/internet jockey Madcow wrote is just too complex for me. I bought Starting Strength just to look at the pictures and pretend I can read.
 
Going back to my original point that I lost somewhere in the rant: There is no magic bullet (Buddy Morris) to getting strong. 5x5 might work for some people, but not for others. Present it with other options and let people decide. I think half the people that mindlessly prescribe it have only read about it.
 
Sherpa,

I dont get your point, you say 5x5 will work for some, but not others, how would you define "work" are you saying that there is a group of people that could not possibly make gains using 5x5, but if they switched to another rep scheme, they would get results? dude, its a rep scheme, nothing more, nothing less, I think you are the one who is deifying it, not everyone else. Now, if you are saying that its ideal for some, but not for others, that I would agree with you, but you have twice stated that people cannot get stronger ( or at least some people) on
5x5, that is like me saying, that I could not lose any weight, improving my cardio, etc by running 100 yard wind sprints, but if I were to run 40;s or 200;s then that would work.

I have often and frequently chided people on this forum for getting too "locked into" a certain rep/set scheme and have always said that a wide variety of reps, with a focus on a target rep range is the most ideal for long term gains. having said that if I could only do ONE rep range, I would pick 5's as the hands down best rep scheme for a combination of size and strength
 
Starting Strength is recommeded in my mind because of a few, very important things:

- emphasis on progression
- emphasis on compounds and frequency when learning movements
- SS has taken everything down to the basics.

People recommend SS because of the time Rip has taken to break down the movements and how (and how not) to do them. 5x5 is in the book, therefore 5x5 gets recommended.

It gets people squatting, deadlifting and pressing regularly with a focus on constant progression. What is the problem?
 
Sherpa said:
Going back to my original point that I lost somewhere in the rant: There is no magic bullet (Buddy Morris) to getting strong. 5x5 might work for some people, but not for others. Present it with other options and let people decide. I think half the people that mindlessly prescribe it have only read about it.
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If you read the S&P FAQ it lists numerous routines, including pull/press/squat, a two-day split, WSFSB, and 5x5. While a lot of people on this board will recommend the 5x5, just as many of them will recommend to read the FAQ. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that half of the people on this board recommend 5x5 without ever actually doing it. It seems you like just pulled that out of your ass.
 
DrBdan said:
If you read the S&P FAQ it lists numerous routines, including pull/press/squat, a two-day split, WSFSB, and 5x5. While a lot of people on this board will recommend the 5x5, just as many of them will recommend to read the FAQ. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that half of the people on this board recommend 5x5 without ever actually doing it. It seems you like just pulled that out of your ass.
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Ditto.

I went with and I'm still doing WSFSB.
 
enright3060 said:
Progressive overload is what makes someone stronger. The 5x5 is only one way to induce it. There is nothing magical about 5 set of 5 reps. It is a good way for a lot of people to stress the body. If you want to get stronger, I would worry less about a "perfect" program and instead concern yourself with the blood, sweat and pain of each training session, which is required to stress the body and induce adaptation. Your only goal is to do more than you did before. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you never really worked that hard in the gym.
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very nicely put. I like the concept of working the body hard enough to make it "adapt." Should help push me next time in the gym.
 
Sherpa said:
You're correct. The 5x5 routine that Bill Star/internet jockey Madcow wrote is just too complex for me. I bought Starting Strength just to look at the pictures and pretend I can read.
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Have you read the 5x5 in the FAQ?
 
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