Crime 30 years to life for Danny Masterson

[moreorless87]

#metoo movement fucked up the general perception in that they wanted all women to be believed at their word always. That's absolutely the wrong approach. All women should be heard(listened to/not dismissed off hand). There are plenty of false allegations as well. Sure the false allegations are a small percentage of overall cases but it's problematic when it happens.

I feel like the focus on celebrity cases as well is not really that helpful. for one thing I think it can be tokenistic that getting a high profile conviction like Weinstien can be PR to avoid dealing with much wider issues but also I think celebrity cases are much more prone to false allegations than the general public.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

LOL, the church had nothing to cover up, and no, there's no evidence the church had any role in the reason for attendance. These were drug parties, grasshopper. Only one of the girls filed charges, over a year after the alleged crime, and the LAPD dismissed the investigation when determining it had no merit.

Everything you assume about this case is wrong. It was as baseless as the Jean Carroll case against Trump.

I didn’t assume anything. Seems like you are personally invested, so not sure you have the ability to be unbiased.

 

[terrapin]

In this thread we learn that for some republicans rapists are almost always innocent.... Unless they're democrats and accused of pedophiliic demonic sexual abuse... Then they're almost certainly guilty!

 

[Hog-train]

Wrong. There was ample evidence provided that weakened the credibility of the accusers. In a nutshell:

The first accuser serially attended his house parties and took drugs. She claims he rufee'd her the night he raped her. She didn't file a report until over a year later.
The second accuser was his girlfriend of five years. She continued dating him for months after the alleged incident.
The third accuser, well, here's what she had to say-- she went over to his house with his explicit expectation that she would take her clothes off. There's text evidence to prove her intent.

Besides, it's not the burden of the defense to prove a lie, but rather the burden of the prosecution to prove the truth; to substantiate evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and they most certainly did NOT achieve that.

The defense quite literally argued at one point, "This is not about consent". In a rape trial. LMFAO. Reflect on that for a moment.

To my understanding, 2 of the women did report the rapes to Scientology higher ups. 1 of them asked for permission to report to cops, but was initially stopped. That's why she only reported to cops later.

Scientology actively suppresses people from going to authorities and wants everything handled in house. This is not disputed as plenty of ex-Scientologists (not related to this trial) have all attested to this.

 

[terrapin]

Why is it right wing types who are against this conviction?

Tucker?

Apparently it's very very difficult for some right-wing minds to accept that a man would rape a woman unless they're satanists in the basement of a pizza parlor and then it's really, really easy to believe.

 

[Madmick]

To my understanding, 2 of the women did report the rapes to Scientology higher ups. 1 of them asked for permission to report to cops, but was initially stopped. That's why she only reported to cops later.

Scientology actively suppresses people from going to authorities and wants everything handled in house. This is not disputed as plenty of ex-Scientologists (not related to this trial) have all attested to this.

No. One woman alleges this-- the one who reported it to the cops. She alleges she was told not to go to the authorities, and that's why it took a year. But the Church denies this, and she has no contemporaneous testimony to support her allegation. The other woman alleged this fifteen years later to Leah Remini.

That's what started this whole lynch mob against Masterson: Remini's anti-Scientology Netflix docudrama. Then a journalist named Ortega seized on this trend, and went raking for any mud he could throw. One of the women who saw the doc on Netflix first started casting allegations on Twitter in a bid for attention. She only then went to the cops-- 15 years later-- to file a report.

 

[Hog-train]

No. One woman alleges this-- the one who reported it to the cops. She alleges she was told not to go to the authorities, and that's why it took a year. But the Church denies this, and she has no contemporaneous testimony to support her allegation. The other woman alleged this fifteen years later to Leah Remini.

That's what started this whole lynch mob against Masterson: Remini's anti-Scientology Netflix docudrama. Then a journalist named Ortega seized on this trend, and went raking for any mud he could throw. One of the women who saw the doc on Netflix first started casting allegations on Twitter in a bid for attention. She only then went to the cops-- 15 years later-- to file a report.

That's exactly what I said. 1 of the alleged victims was told not to go to cops, but she did later anyway. Another just reported to the higher ups of Scientology.

So 3 out of the 5 accusers were Scientologists. 2 out of that 3 reported to higher ups and 1 went to the cops. That's my understanding.

As for the Church denying all this, who TF cares what they say? Of course they're going to deny everything.

It's been documented by multiple ex-Scientology members that they protect the higher ups and do all sorts of shady ass shit. Scientology is a fucking cult. Everybody has known this for years.

 

[HereticBD]

I feel like the focus on celebrity cases as well is not really that helpful. for one thing I think it can be tokenistic that getting a high profile conviction like Weinstien can be PR to avoid dealing with much wider issues but also I think celebrity cases are much more prone to false allegations than the general public.

#Believeallwomen goes further than celebs. College kids were getting jammed up in that shit for having one night stands after a party or bar run or whatever, and the lucky ones needed irrefutable video evidence to clear them...unlike the women who needed a mere allegation to condemn them.

This whole dynamic is dumb. If you believe you were raped, go to the police immediately. The whole "It's so very hard for victims to come forward", isn't without merit, but it should not be a catch all rationale to believe all accusers, no matter what. That's just a green light to burn anyone you ever came into contact with.

As for this guy, he doesn't seem like a boy scout, and if I were a betting man, I'd say he probably crossed a line or two, but to give him 30 years over he said/she said, is a bit much. Nobody can ever know for sure. I'd like a system where if you bring charges like these that way past a reasonable time frame, it should not carry life destroying prison terms. If you were reporting an armed robbery from 10 or 20 years ago, with nothing more than your word, you'd be laughed out of the police station, let alone court.

 

[Madmick]

hh

That's exactly what I said. 1 of the alleged victims was told not to go to cops, but she did later anyway. Another just reported to the higher ups of Scientology.

So 3 out of the 5 accusers were Scientologists. 2 out of that 3 reported to higher ups and 1 went to the cops. That's my understanding.

As for the Church denying all this, who TF cares what they say? Of course they're going to deny everything.

It's been documented by multiple ex-Scientology members that they protect the higher ups and do all sorts of shady ass shit. Scientology is a fucking cult. Everybody has known this for years.

No, you said two women alleged this. I addressed this. Only one claimed this close to the actual event, as it's what she told cops when they wondered why she took so long to report the crime, and she has no corroboration from others she did so. That's the same woman who went to the cops. Furthermore, her account was investigated, at the time, by the LAPD, and found to be baseless. The second woman alleged she told higher-ups only 15 years later after watching the Remini documentary, tweeting her defamatory allegations on social media, and was challenged by users who questioned why she was only making accusations on social media instead of to authorities.

So one woman claimed this a year later, one woman fifteen years late, and the third woman not at all. None of them had third party accounts substantiating their claims they were spurned by Scientology leaders.

You're falling into the same trap that has caught so many who glanced at this headline. You're accepting unsubstantiated claims by proxy of a prejudice against Scientology. That's what this whole trial is. It's a trial of Scientology by proxy. Masterson is simply the hapless stand-in. However one feels about Scientology that doesn't immediately validate the claims of women who claim the church abetted Masterson in abusing them, especially when these accounts were only marshaled in response to a docudrama that gained a wide viewership because of Netflix. (and the efforts of a journalist to make a name for himself on the back of its popularity).

 

[Hog-train]

hh
No, you said two women alleged this. I addressed this. Only one claimed this close to the actual event, as it's what she told cops when they wondered why she took so long to report the crime, and she has no corroboration from others she did so. That's the same woman who went to the cops. Furthermore, her account was investigated, at the time, by the LAPD, and found to be baseless. The second woman alleged she told higher-ups only 15 years later after watching the Remini documentary, tweeting her defamatory allegations on social media, and was challenged by users who questioned why she was only making accusations on social media instead of to authorities.

So one woman claimed this a year later, one woman fifteen years late, and the third woman not at all. None of them had third party accounts substantiating their claims they were spurned by Scientology leaders.

Although I'm open to be corrected, that's not what I read.

I read Jane Doe #1, later identified as Christina Brixler, reported to higher ups about rape and then subsequently reported to the cops in 2004.

Jane Doe #3 said she reported to a Scientology executive in 2003 and then Scientology ethics officer Miranda Scoggins. She was supposedly put into an ethics program as a result.

You're falling into the same trap that has caught so many who glanced at this headline. You're accepting unsubstantiated claims by proxy of a prejudice against Scientology. That's what this whole trial is. It's a trial of Scientology by proxy. Masterson is simply the hapless stand-in. However one feels about Scientology that doesn't immediately validate the claims of women who claim the church abetted Masterson in abusing them, especially when these accounts were only marshaled in response to a docudrama that gained a wide viewership because of Netflix. (and the efforts of a journalist to make a name for himself on the back of its popularity).

I'm not falling for any trap by just glancing at a headline. You're just making an assumption that I am.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I evaluate cases based on evidence and am not swayed by biased headlines. I treat all cases individually and do not go by politics at all. Or what any media source with a political bent says at face value.

For example, I knew the Columbia mattress girl was a lying piece of shit. Because I go by evidence, not what mainstream media tells me. I knew Jonathan Majors got railroaded. I knew Amber heard was a lying piece of shit years before the trial. I knew Marilyn Manson got completely fucked. Kobe Bryant was a blatant money grab. And so was Trevor Bauer. I'm well aware how men, especially famous ones, can be railroaded with just allegations.

But in this case, I think he did it.

Seems you have pre-determined bias actually.

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

my wife and I wife have discussed this numerous times and se agreed that if I raped her just once that she would leave the next day, not wait 20 years to make an accusation against me.

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

I never liked Masterson and always thought that he was the biggest asshole, but any woman (or man) who comes out 20 years later and claims that she was raped has to have their story skepticized.

 

[Hog-train]

I never liked Masterson and always thought that he was the biggest asshole, but any woman (or man) who comes out 20 years later and claims that she was raped has to have their story skepticized.

But 2 of them came out back then. And one went to the cops - back then. And also, they are part of a cult. Rape is commonplace in cults and routinely silenced.

You're making it seem like it was a normal college encounter and a claim 20 years later.

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

But 2 of them came out back then. And one went to the cops - back then. And also, they are part of a cult. Rape is commonplace in cults and routinely silenced.

You're making it seem like it was a normal college encounter and a claim 20 years later.

I know that scientology is a cult, but how could someone remain a "girlfriend" after getting repeatedly raped?

 

[Hog-train]

I know that scientology is a cult, but how could someone remain a "girlfriend" after getting repeatedly raped?

If you have a GF, but fuck her in her sleep or drug her and bang her while she's comatose, that's rape.

This is not some really rare thing either. In South Korea, there is an ongoing trial of a bunch of men who gave their wives GHB (date rape drug) and then they all took turns banging each other's wives. Shit like this happens all the time.

 

[djacobox372]

In this thread we learn that for republicans rapists are almost always innocent.... Unless they're democrats and accused of pedophiliic demonic sexual abuse... Then they're almost certainly guilty!

Really?

Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and Jeffry Epstein were all democrats. Not many were defending them.

 

[terrapin]

Really?

Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and Jeffry Epstein were all democrats. Not many were defending them.

yes really and i absolutely DID hear republicans defending bill cosby. if the person is on the left you wont get many or ANY republicans defending them though.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

I know that scientology is a cult, but how could someone remain a "girlfriend" after getting repeatedly raped?

cults can exert tremendous pressure on people to conform and do things for the "greater good", which can mean putting up with abuse and the higher ups protecting the more powerful ones. but yeah, it's also hard to convict anyone just based on testimony so there's a lot room for reasonable doubt in these types of cases.

 

[Seano]

Apparently it's very very difficult for a right-wing mind to accept that a man would rape a woman unless they're satanists in the basement of a pizza parlor and then it's really, really easy to believe.

Yes, yes- you sound like as enlightened as you hope every one thinks you are. Congratulations. In this country though, its supposed to be that you're innocent until prove guilty. I hope you get the same courtesy if an accusation is leveled at you or someone close to you and the smarmy army doesn't decide your case for you because they don't like you religion or political affiliation.

 

[Seano]

Really?

Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and Jeffry Epstein were all democrats. Not many were defending them.

I had the same opinion on the Cosby allegations that I have here, for the record.