International 248 people, 66 children Palestinian dead after "Apartheid state" Israel launches airstrikes in Gaza

[Oceanmachine]

WTH! My thread was unique and different and gets merged into this garbage thread

 

[TheWave111]

I have good news and bad news sherbro!
The good news is that you are a perfect fit for the sherdog war room.
The bad news is that you are also a perfect fit for religious and ideological radicalization.

Youre the kind of person who cant distinguish between what is actually happening in the real world, and a persons opinions, even when stated clearly time and time again how they are different.

Since you are a bit slow ima explain it to you one last time. The solution you proposed earlier, to go back to the borders from the old UN accord, CAN NEVER HAPPEN. It can never happen because israel has all the cards and they say no. Wich is why i asked you if you had any thoughts on what some kind of solution that COULD ACTUALLY BE PLAUSIBLE. This is where you went full on derp mode.

Also how tf can i force my view on you, when you are to stupid to realize what I actually think on the subject? You keep confusing me stating facts about what is actually happening, and what i would have wanted to happen in a fair and just world. Even when i had a double quote reply a few posts back where i clearly state that in an ideal world the palestinians would get a happy ending(not talking about the israelis opening thai massage parlors in gaza). And yes, you actually quoted said post and replied to it, but sadly you are such a mental midget you managed to misunderstand such a simple straightforwards line of text. Or maybe you dont even bother reading anything as you seem radicalized beyond what is normal, even by sherdog standards.

What has become clear in our exchanges however, is that you are dead set on living in an imaginary world, where all you do is cry and be butthurt that the palestinians are powerless, and fantazise about solutions that are impossible. The funny thing is im starting to think you are to brainwashed to understand this, thus you will be eternally trapped in your delusions.

I kind of feel sad for you, you need to let go of the salt in your soul. Maybe give sensei Fabia a call, I hear he has some free time now that diego dumped him

I'll ignore your personal attacks on me.
I've read your comment. You've shown what your criteria is. Something Israel will say yes to. That's the 'reality' according to you.
What's the maximum what Israel will say yes to? Then I can give you an answer based on the 'reality'.
Since I'm stupid and you are smart tell me what the 'the reality' is and what the maximum demands that Israel will agree on.
If you don't paint this 'reality' to me I can't give you an answer. Because I'm too stupid to know what the 'reality' is.
Your definition of 'reality' is something Israel will say yes to. What's that exactly?
Because if you don't tell me then your 'reality' is not described.

 

[Bubzeh]

Keep bending over boys.

 

[Halifax]

How do you know these arent Chinese bots and trolls? I have a hard time believing a real leftist would defend the Chinese. Pretty much only western nations voted against China in the UN and their behavior

They definitely are not bots and they get themselves 1 week banned pretty often because of their emotional posting on far left matters specifically in the usa.

They are pretty typical self hating sjw's.
But I'll pm you a link and you can assess

 

[Islam Imamate]

So I wonder how they would handle Lebanon then that has less of a global support system then palestinian narrative. Though the Gulf states were hardly saying anything about this recent Israeli conflict the UAE even blamed Hamas which is logical but it seems all the blowback was from the western powers and Turkey

The thing about Lebanon is that the Israelis aren't interested in settling that land, all they want from Lebanon is a secure neighbor so their military objectives there are different form the ones in the occupied Palestinian territories.

The Arab monarchies are weak and fear Iran so of course they will pander to Israel. Only Egypt is a serious Arab military power but Egypt is also more politically unstable and less economically developed than Israel which undermines their ability to mobilize their military and in general undermines confidence in them.

 

[giusti825]

Israel committed no assaults to provoke the rocket attacks.

Now imagine that was a synagogue instead of a mosque.....

 

[Oceanmachine]

The thing about Lebanon is that the Israelis aren't interested in settling that land, all they want from Lebanon is a secure neighbor so their military objectives there are different form the ones in the occupied Palestinian territories.

The Arab monarchies are weak and fear Iran so of course they will pander to Israel. Only Egypt is a serious Arab military power but Egypt is also more politically unstable and less economically developed than Israel which undermines their ability to mobilize their military and in general undermines confidence in them.

I think it is not out of realm of possible that Israel would seek to annex south lebanon again which is fairly sparsely populated and gives them a larger buffer zone for Haifa. This article says they would not seek to maintain a presence there but of course they would publicly say that. They did it before just didnt settle it because the rational then was to first make it a stable state this was back when they had lebanese christian and muslim allies before Hezbollah grew strong and won the masses support.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/i...ebanon-in-next-conflict-with-hezbollah-504843

 

[Proud American]

I think it is not out of realm of possible that Israel would seek to annex south lebanon again which is fairly sparsely populated and gives them a larger buffer zone for Haifa. This article says they would not seek to maintain a presence there but of course they would publicly say that. They did it before just didnt settle it because the rational then was to first make it a stable state this was back when they had lebanese christian and muslim allies before Hezbollah grew strong and won the masses support.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/i...ebanon-in-next-conflict-with-hezbollah-504843

There is no chance of that happening ever again. The Israeli settlers who pushed for that won’t get their way.

Hezbollah single handedly saw to that dream evaporating, which is how they gained support of the Lebanese people.

 

[Spiritual Sight]

It will sooner become a pariah fortress like North Korea before that happens. Calling for its abolishment really only vindicates the paranoid right wing into hardening their policies - not a productive strategy as much as I understand the motivation for a just solution, that’s just not it.

I guess by your logic though as well the U.S. should be abolished because it’s a “racist” state?

I'm not saying the nation should be abolished. I'm saying Jewish Supremacy needs to be. It is nothing short of expecting a bad person to change. The Jewish people do need a place to call home but this shit isn't working.

By my logic, an event in history must be interpreted in the context of history. Generally speaking, there are things which Germany did in WWII which was normal in times of war before that era but the world was going through changes and at that moment it was no longer acceptable. Generally speaking, there were things that the U.S. did in its early years and shortly after (historically speaking) the world changed and looked upon early U.S. actions with disgust. This stage in history is far past the behaviors of the Jewish State. Their actions do not fit into our current moment of history. Their behaviors are not lawful. What they are demonstrating is that they do not have the ability to exist within the standards of the modern world. The foundational goals of their nation can only be achieved through war crimes and crimes against humanity. These cannot be acceptable actions. We judge historical actions in context of the moment of history in which they play out. That should not be difficult to understand.

If white Europeans aren't allowed their own areas and states why should the Jews?

Yes. Generally speaking, we are both saying that the world is changing and no one is above accountability to that change. The hypocrisy of the behavior of the Jewish State is that they fought for awareness against all things Nazi and now they have created a concentration camp with war crimes to accompany it (see https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/israel/palestine). Meanwhile, the dominant narrative which they push is that the prisoners are not be allowed to fight against the guards... The guards have a right to defend themselves.

The Jewish people have appropriately urged the world to never find such historical sins to be acceptable again. They succeeded and now we must hold the feet of the Jewish State to the fire they have created. The world has changed. They must stop and correct.

 

[giusti825]

I feel like the use of the terminology war crime is heavily overused around the ol WR.

Not sure if just because civilians die in a conflict that constitutes some kind of crime. I think some people are confused that war isn’t a card game and no dealer will enforce fuck all.

Maybe you just dont know what constitutes a war crime. Siege warfare, as it takes place today in both the gaza strip and yemen are war crimes. You're not allowed to surround a population on all sides and starve them or deprive them of necessary resources. Moving settlers into a militarily occupied territory is also a violation of international law.

The fact that the palestinians in gaza dont even have the ability to leave during times of warfare is a human rights violation.

the term 'war crime' is underused, and i say this as an American.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

What was that 'state' and offer?

Taba Map offer after the Camp David Summit

Olmert's offer:

 

[giusti825]

These Hamas/Palestinian bastards will hide behind women, children and the handicapped so when they start shit and a child gets caught in the crossfire, they and the media can perpetuate this narrative that the Israelis are brutal child killers.

This is a painfully stupid take. Its one of the most densely populated areas on earth where nobody can leave. Any indiscriminate attack is going to kill civilians.

This is also a bit telling. You dont look at palestinians as human beings, neither does the israeli government. Before you can genocide, you have to dehumanize the target.

Palestinians are human beings, the same as you or me. No human being wants their children killed. Give yourself a few moments and try to imagine the situation from a palestinians perspective who is trapped in the gaza strip. Then, imagine they are human beings.

 

[giusti825]

Okay but what I say I think still holds. If Chinese, Russians, Americans, Saudis hell even Brazil was in Israels position or some African nation they would of gone hard and eliminated the threat entirely. Israel didnt win anything in this last conflict, there will be more terror attacks randomly and then more rocket fire in a year or two. The arabs inside Israel now a lot are more antagonized. Yes Geopolitically Israel has more allies now then during the 2nd Intifada, they signed trade deals with many nations like SK and are working with Russians etc. But militarily I dont see them as so strong when they also depend on America to refill their missile interceptors for Iron Dome. Essentially 2012, 2014 etc Israel is just trimming the weeds not eliminating them. A truly powerful nation would of eliminated it (like China)

I also wonder if Israel goes to war with Lebanon via Hezbollah will they be hindered there?

Comparing mass murder of human beings to garden chores is sociopathic. Dehumanizing the target is how genocide begins.

 

[Spiritual Sight]

In an ideal world there would be a happy ending for the palestinians, but the world is unfair, life sucks and then you die. The sad truth is that no matter how good ideas some people may have, the israeli military capabilities is what will dictate this conflict, not some indigenous rights activist.
Best they can hope for is to submit now and work towards a better life slowly inside the israeli system imo.

I appreciate the way you are keeping it real. I do understand how far away from the norm those ideas are.

The truth is, the only thing keeping Israel from paying for their crimes is the veto power of the United States. Their military capabilities will not save them, if that particular piece of political atmosphere changes. As much as my ideas (the ideas of Yehudah Hakohen) sound like they are robbing Israel of something, what they would actually do is save Israel from the wrath to come.

 

[DoctorDeelon]

This is a painfully stupid take. Its one of the most densely populated areas on earth where nobody can leave. Any indiscriminate attack is going to kill civilians.

This is also a bit telling. You dont look at palestinians as human beings, neither does the israeli government. Before you can genocide, you have to dehumanize the target.

Palestinians are human beings, the same as you or me. No human being wants their children killed. Give yourself a few moments and try to imagine the situation from a palestinians perspective who is trapped in the gaza strip. Then, imagine they are human beings.

lol get out of here with that bullshit Ad Hominem.

 

[giusti825]

lol get out of here with that bullshit Ad Hominem.

You clearly don't understand the term ad hominem. I was attacking your idea as it was phrased for the problematic nature of the idea itself. I wasn't attacking you personally; many people see palestinians as sub-human. It doesn't make it right.

 

[Samjj]

I'm not saying the nation should be abolished. I'm saying Jewish Supremacy needs to be. It is nothing short of expecting a bad person to change. The Jewish people do need a place to call home but this shit isn't working.

By my logic, an event in history must be interpreted in the context of history. Generally speaking, there are things which Germany did in WWII which was normal in times of war before that era but the world was going through changes and at that moment it was no longer acceptable. Generally speaking, there were things that the U.S. did in its early years and shortly after (historically speaking) the world changed and looked upon early U.S. actions with disgust. This stage in history is far past the behaviors of the Jewish State. Their actions do not fit into our current moment of history. Their behaviors are not lawful. What they are demonstrating is that they do not have the ability to exist within the standards of the modern world. The foundational goals of their nation can only be achieved through war crimes and crimes against humanity. These cannot be acceptable actions. We judge historical actions in context of the moment of history in which they play out. That should not be difficult to understand.



Yes. Generally speaking, we are both saying that the world is changing and no one is above accountability to that change. The hypocrisy of the behavior of the Jewish State is that they fought for awareness against all things Nazi and now they have created a concentration camp with war crimes to accompany it (see https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/israel/palestine). Meanwhile, the dominant narrative which they push is that the prisoners are not be allowed to fight against the guards... The guards have a right to defend themselves.

The Jewish people have appropriately urged the world to never find such historical sins to be acceptable again. They succeeded and now we must hold the feet of the Jewish State to the fire they have created. The world has changed. They must stop and correct.

I can’t legitimately take your argument seriously if you only apply your moral standards to one country. In the past decade a few reminders: Russian annexation in Crimea, Chinese genocide of Uighurs, massive casualties and far more heinous human rights abuses by Assad in Syria, rampant LGBTQ oppression in Muslim majority countries. By your logic said countries also should not exist… Imagining even for a second that Israel is the arch human rights abuser of our generation is delusional. Holding Israel to higher moral standards than other countries while simultaneously not calling for the respective abolishment of said countries is a double standard, which has a name - but I’d rather not get into that conversation.

 

[DoctorDeelon]

You clearly don't understand the term ad hominem. I was attacking your idea as it was phrased for the problematic nature of the idea itself. I wasn't attacking you personally; many people see palestinians as sub-human. It doesn't make it right.

You weren't attacking my idea, which was that Hamas are using human targets and it's wrong. You accused me of not looking at Palestinians as human beings and being okay with genocide, which is indeed an attack on my character.

And you're wrong - if I didn't look at the Palestinians as human beings, I wouldn't have a problem with them using women and children as human shields.

So yes, I understand Ad Hominem, it's clearly you who doesn't. Dumb dumb.

 

[giusti825]

I can’t legitimately take your argument seriously if you only apply your moral standards to one country. In the past decade a few reminders: Russian annexation in Crimea, Chinese genocide of Uighurs, massive casualties and far more heinous human rights abuses by Assad in Syria, rampant LGBTQ oppression in Muslim majority countries. By your logic said countries also should not exist… Imagining even for a second that Israel is the arch human rights abuser of our generation is delusional. Holding Israel to higher moral standards than other countries while simultaneously not calling for the respective abolishment of said countries is a double standard, which has a name - but I’d rather not get into that conversation.

Of course there are human rights abuses around the world, the problem comes in when a powerful nation is committing mass human rights violations.

Some of the examples you listed you are clearly misinformed about.

When it comes to blatant human rights abuses against civilian populations by powerful nations, I'd say that the Saudi government and the Israeli government are in a tight race for first place.

 

[giusti825]

You weren't attacking my idea, which was that Hamas are using human targets and it's wrong. You accused me of not looking at Palestinians as human beings and being okay with genocide, which is indeed an attack on my character.

And you're wrong - if I didn't look at the Palestinians as human beings, I wouldn't have a problem with them using women and children as human shields.

So yes, I understand Ad Hominem, it's clearly you who doesn't. Dumb dumb.

So all the Israeli government has to do is call them 'human shields' and they can kill all the civilians they want? The 'human shields' arent allowed to leave one of the most densely populated areas on earth.

This argument is akin to saying its ok to blow up a bank to kill bank robbers, no matter how many hostages are inside.