Elections 2018 Riksdag (Sweden)

[NoDak]

 

[NoDak]

@sweede Your thoughts?

 

[NoDak]

How much have the Social Democrats allowed the Greens to dictate as far as policy? One Swede claimed to me that a lot of the craziest rhetoric people hear about is actually emanating from them and not the Social Dems, who have overcompromised in order to stay in power when they needed them to form the last government coalition.

They are extremely powerful when it comes to getting their policies pushed through by the social democrats. One flagrant example is that the social democrats felt the need to throw them a bone and give 9,000 Afghans a chance to stay and go to high school despite the fact that their application for asylum had been denied.

This was at the same time as the social democrats tried to paint a picture of taking a tougher stand on immigration.

He's still ripping them lol.

"In the multitude of various idiotic multikulti news you've gotten from and about sweden the past couple of years when other people took the position of laughing saying the stupid swedes deserve the shithouse they built (to some extent it's of course true). I've tried to also remind that the craziest of policies you've seen has come from the green party, a leftist extremist enviroMENTAL party that has never been above 7% of the votes! they have been allowed to dictate far far more than they ever should by the social democrats who apperantly will accept anything just to stay in power.

I've maintained that times are changing and that you can really tell just in day to day life that more and more are tired of being stigmatized as racists just cause they don't want the highest immigration numbers per capita in the entire western world when you see all the massive social problems it leads to, and this stigmatization will inevitably lead to the sweden democrats shocking people by becoming the largest party in the country."

 

[Fedorable]

something is rotten in sweden and it's not just the surströmming

Going to be exiting. The Swedish media has been a shit show of bias against SD. The national Swedish television station just got in deep doo doo for some of their coverage

where to?

Let's see if Sweden has any balls left.

is this a meatball joke?

 

[Son of Jamin]

He's still ripping them lol.

"In the multitude of various idiotic multikulti news you've gotten from and about sweden the past couple of years when other people took the position of laughing saying the stupid swedes deserve the shithouse they built (to some extent it's of course true). I've tried to also remind that the craziest of policies you've seen has come from the green party, a leftist extremist enviroMENTAL party that has never been above 7% of the votes! they have been allowed to dictate far far more than they ever should by the social democrats who apperantly will accept anything just to stay in power.

I've maintained that times are changing and that you can really tell just in day to day life that more and more are tired of being stigmatized as racists just cause they don't want the highest immigration numbers per capita in the entire western world when you see all the massive social problems it leads to, and this stigmatization will inevitably lead to the sweden democrats shocking people by becoming the largest party in the country."

Yup, the thirst for power for the Social democrats triumphs all, they changed their tune now and will allow relatives to unite with their kin here in Sweden, which means that more than 20,000 people will receive lifelong financial aid, housing, healthcare, education.

That was a part of the deal with the Centrists and the Liberals...

 

[sweede]

Hello @NoDak . I just saw you in my alerts and was not aware there was a thread about this. It´s great you take such an interest in our part of the world. I will summorize later when I have got some more time. But I would also say I´m quite fed up with this 4 month tragedy, but what else could you expect when the election was razor thin and almost all parties claimed they were victorious last autumn. And having a family who take great interest in the debates I´m a bit tired talking about Swedish politics, and especially when the debate climate border to ad hominem-argument, where you throw low blows to the persons in charge. There was a KD( democratic christians) politician(Sara Skyttedal) who twitterd her dissatisfaction when the Liberals (L) decided to vote for S. Her words were - imposter, bungler and quislings, we will never forget. The leader of L has a family who fled from Nazi germany so you can imagine the reaction.

I thought that comment was so un-Swedish and a healthy look at what divisions can do among the blocks and what ad-hom arguments can do to its ctizens, where they start to think its okey to make a circus out of it, if the politicians can do it to.

Nah, I´m sick of it NoDak, a lot of groll in our family. LOL

 

[Squarechoke]

Hello @NoDak . I just saw you in my alerts and was not aware there was a thread about this. It´s great you take such an interest in our part of the world. I will summorize later when I have got some more time. But I would also say I´m quite fed up with this 4 month tragedy, but what else could you expect when the election was razor thin and almost all parties claimed they were victorious last autumn. And having a family who take great interest in the debates I´m a bit tired talking about Swedish politics, and especially when the debate climate border to ad hominem-argument, where you throw low blows to the persons in charge. There was a KD( democratic christians) politician(Sara Skyttedal) who twitterd her dissatisfaction when the Liberals (L) decided to vote for S. Her words were - imposter, bungler and quislings, we will never forget. The leader of L has a family who fled from Nazi germany so you can imagine the reaction.

I thought that comment was so un-Swedish and a healthy look at what divisions can do among the blocks and what ad-hom arguments can do to its ctizens, where they start to think its okey to make a circus out of it, if the politicians can do it to.

Nah, I´m sick of it NoDak, a lot of groll in our family. LOL

Just a small correction (and some context for those that might not know the term). His mother fled from Nazi occupied Norway, and Quisling was the leader of the Norwegian party that cooperated with the Nazis. The word quisling has now come to have the general meaning of a traitor to the nation.

 

[sweede]

Just a small correction (and some context for those that might not know the term). His mother fled from Nazi occupied Norway, and Quisling was the leader of the Norwegian party that cooperated with the Nazis. The word quisling has now come to have the general meaning of a traitor to the nation.

Oh my, oh my. I did tthat totally wrong. I don´t know where I got it from they were from Germany, and now I see the connection with Norway. Immediately I thought she used quislings as a badly chosen word for Björklund as a traitor.

 

[TheGreatA]

The social democrats generally aren't the source of the problems in any of the Nordic societies, they're simply too weak on the far-left nowadays, and are often forced to pander towards them, thus serving as their enablers, even if they themselves are pragmatic enough to see the downfalls of far-left ideology. Historically speaking, the social democrats did an important job in discrediting and marginalizing revolutionary communists in favour of a democratic, socialist alternative.

Despite all the hype about "far-right" and the return of fascism/extreme nationalism, there arguably hasn't been any sort of significant influence for such ideologies since WW2, atleast in the North, and the conservatives/right-wingers usually keep their distance from any of the Nazi role players, who do a good enough job in discrediting themselves by being mostly drunken rabble. The Sweden Democrats have arguably done a much better job distancing themselves from the Nazi stuff, than Sweden's far-left alternatives have done with their own "wing-nuts".

The far-right is everybody's favorite boogeyman, but objectively speaking the threat posed by them towards immigrants and so forth, is extremely exaggerated. The years that our local so-called "far-right populist" party has been in government, there have actually been more immigrants accepted than in any of the decades previous. Zero signs of any sort of far-right "empowerment" or anything of that sort, in the form of attacks, or protests, or hate crimes. All the talk about defending our societies from the "far-right threat", is bullshit, to deflect from real problems.

 

[Son of Jamin]

The social democrats generally aren't the source of the problems in any of the Nordic societies, they're simply too weak on the far-left nowadays, and are often forced to pander towards them, thus serving as their enablers, even if they themselves are pragmatic enough to see the downfalls of far-left ideology. Historically speaking, the social democrats did an important job in discrediting and marginalizing revolutionary communists in favour of a democratic, socialist alternative.

Despite all the hype about "far-right" and the return of fascism/extreme nationalism, there arguably hasn't been any sort of significant influence for such ideologies since WW2, atleast in the North, and the conservatives/right-wingers usually keep their distance from any of the Nazi role players, who do a good enough job in discrediting themselves by being mostly drunken rabble. The Sweden Democrats have arguably done a much better job distancing themselves from the Nazi stuff, than Sweden's far-left alternatives have done with their own "wing-nuts".

The far-right is everybody's favorite boogeyman, but objectively speaking the threat posed by them towards immigrants and so forth, is extremely exaggerated. The years that our local so-called "far-right populist" party has been in government, there have actually been more immigrants accepted than in any of the decades previous. Zero signs of any sort of far-right "empowerment" or anything of that sort. All the talk about defending our societies from the "far-right threat", is bullshit, to deflect from real problems.

I co-sign!

It's a pretty good strategy on behalf of the left and the establishment to vilify the so-called "far right" since it prevents conservatives and moderates to cooperate with them. If they were to join forces, there would be a massive political block on the right that could threaten the left's hegemony for a long time to come.

 

[TheGreatA]

I co-sign!

It's a pretty good strategy on behalf of the left and the establishment to vilify the so-called "far right" since it prevents conservatives and moderates to cooperate with them. If they were to join forces, there would be a massive political block on the right that could threaten the left's hegemony for a long time to come.

We also ought to acknowledge that the so-called "far-right boogeymen", atleast in the case of Finland, have very little do with the historical far-right and their ideology. In our case they are actually against expanding the military or military alliances, prefer economic austerity to "big government" spending, warn against excess debt-taking and social welfare, and overall don't really hold that many "populist stances" compared to the left.

The only thing that the left grasps onto, in order to paint them as this populist "far-right boogeyman", is the criticism of immigration, and even that criticism mostly has to do with illegals entering the country and criminals being deported, which in the end are very rational criticisms.

The "far-right" of the Nordic countries, in any other state, would be seen as rational, conservative-ish, middle-ground parties, with plenty of room for compromise. But it is impossible to compromise with the far-left as they continue to demand complete submission. They represent the extreme ends of their ideological alternatives far more so than the "far-right" does.

To any outside observer the Nordic societies are almost comically left-wing, long since pacified and meek in their behaviour. There is no scenario whatsoever where they will suddenly take a turn to the extreme right. The lunacy of the extreme left is much closer to where we are currently at, politically.

Any sort of conservative or patriotic sentiment whatsoever, represents an "extreme far-right position" to where we currently stand.

 

[Squarechoke]

The stance towards SD and V really only differs in two of the parties (S and MP). The middle and right-wing parties have the same stance towards V as they do towards SD regarding cooperation and influence.

 

[luckyshot]

The social democrats generally aren't the source of the problems in any of the Nordic societies, they're simply too weak on the far-left nowadays, and are often forced to pander towards them, thus serving as their enablers, even if they themselves are pragmatic enough to see the downfalls of far-left ideology. Historically speaking, the social democrats did an important job in discrediting and marginalizing revolutionary communists in favour of a democratic, socialist alternative.

Despite all the hype about "far-right" and the return of fascism/extreme nationalism, there arguably hasn't been any sort of significant influence for such ideologies since WW2, atleast in the North, and the conservatives/right-wingers usually keep their distance from any of the Nazi role players, who do a good enough job in discrediting themselves by being mostly drunken rabble. The Sweden Democrats have arguably done a much better job distancing themselves from the Nazi stuff, than Sweden's far-left alternatives have done with their own "wing-nuts".

The far-right is everybody's favorite boogeyman, but objectively speaking the threat posed by them towards immigrants and so forth, is extremely exaggerated. The years that our local so-called "far-right populist" party has been in government, there have actually been more immigrants accepted than in any of the decades previous. Zero signs of any sort of far-right "empowerment" or anything of that sort, in the form of attacks, or protests, or hate crimes. All the talk about defending our societies from the "far-right threat", is bullshit, to deflect from real problems.

I read a post like this and get very jealous.

Fuck America's two party system for not giving wingnuts their own parties. Instead, they ruin everyone's.

 

[TheGreatA]

I read a post like this and get very jealous.

Fuck America's two party system for not giving wingnuts their own parties. Instead, they ruin everyone's.

The strength of the two-party system is that when you have a quality political climate, where both parties are willing to compromise from their ideological tenets in favour of national interests, you will have a very effective, predictable and stable system for decades to come.

The downfall of it, is that when the political climate is very divided, and increasingly radical, the result is the opposite. Politics will be very ineffective, with both parties preventing the other from getting anything done. The vocal minorities begin to determine the course of politics over the "silent majority". I suppose the saving grace is that the "silent majority" will have eventually had enough, and build a culture around dismissing the noise from the "wing-nuts", to where they will lose some of their power. America has gone through several of these cycles. Their system, fortunately or unfortunately, is one where they cannot admit too much room to political radicalism, as they only have two parties to choose from. If one, or potentially both, are "hijacked" by ideologues, there will be no room for moderation or compromise, and their system becomes dysfunctional.

I suppose it is a case of throwing all of your eggs in two baskets. It is a system built around the Democrats and Republicans being able to co-exist.

Having multiple political parties decreases the potential effectiveness, since there are now sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen, to where all policy dilutes down to a half-assed compromise, but also the potential ineffectiveness, as the wing-nuts and radicals do not soil the parties that actually matter with their presence. However, we still see cases where a major political party colludes with a minor wing-nut party in order to grab power. The effect is usually in allowing them to pass off something stupid and counter-productive, which is overturned by the next election cycle.

 

[NoDak]

Hello @NoDak . I just saw you in my alerts and was not aware there was a thread about this. It´s great you take such an interest in our part of the world. I will summorize later when I have got some more time. But I would also say I´m quite fed up with this 4 month tragedy, but what else could you expect when the election was razor thin and almost all parties claimed they were victorious last autumn. And having a family who take great interest in the debates I´m a bit tired talking about Swedish politics, and especially when the debate climate border to ad hominem-argument, where you throw low blows to the persons in charge. There was a KD( democratic christians) politician(Sara Skyttedal) who twitterd her dissatisfaction when the Liberals (L) decided to vote for S. Her words were - imposter, bungler and quislings, we will never forget. The leader of L has a family who fled from Nazi germany so you can imagine the reaction.

I thought that comment was so un-Swedish and a healthy look at what divisions can do among the blocks and what ad-hom arguments can do to its ctizens, where they start to think its okey to make a circus out of it, if the politicians can do it to.

Nah, I´m sick of it NoDak, a lot of groll in our family. LOL

Sweede! Not only were you aware there was a thread about this, but you have almost a dozen posts in here already lol.

 

[sweede]

Sweede! Not only were you aware there was a thread about this, but you have almost a dozen posts in here already lol.

I have? Oh my, oh my. Starting to get a bit concerned with my caching. LOL

 

[sweede]

We also ought to acknowledge that the so-called "far-right boogeymen", atleast in the case of Finland, have very little do with the historical far-right and their ideology. In our case they are actually against expanding the military or military alliances, prefer economic austerity to "big government" spending, warn against excess debt-taking and social welfare, and overall don't really hold that many "populist stances" compared to the left.

The only thing that the left grasps onto, in order to paint them as this populist "far-right boogeyman", is the criticism of immigration, and even that criticism mostly has to do with illegals entering the country and criminals being deported, which in the end are very rational criticisms.

The "far-right" of the Nordic countries, in any other state, would be seen as rational, conservative-ish, middle-ground parties, with plenty of room for compromise. But it is impossible to compromise with the far-left as they continue to demand complete submission. They represent the extreme ends of their ideological alternatives far more so than the "far-right" does.

To any outside observer the Nordic societies are almost comically left-wing, long since pacified and meek in their behaviour. There is no scenario whatsoever where they will suddenly take a turn to the extreme right. The lunacy of the extreme left is much closer to where we are currently at, politically.

Any sort of conservative or patriotic sentiment whatsoever, represents an "extreme far-right position" to where we currently stand.

I try to be as much aware of what our news media is reporting and channeling to the readers. And honestly, I don´t see that amount of negative headlines that would indicate the average intellectuals to care or worry about them being a real threat at all. As you said they do a good enough job in discrediting themselves by being mostly drunken rabble.

The issue the average intellectual (and I have relatives who voted SD) have against what I would call the populist ( what else do they have more than the fear of the immigration and EU?) party that is SD, is the frequent occurance of sidesteps the party is plagued with. We are talking about a party that is as young as MP, and you never hear the public question MP as a serious party.

And to paint the party of SD and V in the same vein as the traditional extreme left and right is unfair in my opinion. They both have policies I would be happy to vote for and the leader of V is a good face for the party keeping despicable members such as Rossana Dinamarca from having as less media room as possible. And there lay the problem with SD and V. They are including members that are so far away from reality and simply are not capable of listening and therefore you can not have a constructive dialog with them.

I never thought the day would come when I would admit we have a big problem in Sweden today with radical Islamist infiltrating our parties. If listen carefully to these individuals I would place them on the far right side, but they are mostly targeting the parties on the left side. It is almost as if it is easier to do so with kind and welcoming people. Luckily for us we are moving in the same direction as Denmark, although we have a long way to reach their standards, but we are starting to question and taking action. Our touch anxiety with particular loaded topics such as the correlation of culture/religion/race must fade away. We as a host nation need to adress those anti-democratic people that in a democracy you have to fight for it every day, and with freedom comes a responsibility where you as a citizen must contribute and act like normal people.