Wonderboy Thompson vs The Immortal Brown

[joeakrazo]

Jones backs out like that against Rashad, he'll find himself getting double legged, drove into the fence and drug down.

I hope so. Rooting so hard for Suga. The last straw for me was UFC sponsoring Jones. We love to see the mighty fall. :icon_twis

 

[Jukai]

killed? Where? Wonderboy has no losses last time I checked? Are you talking training?

As mentioned previously, Wonderboy got injured by an illegal but accidental move so it was ruled a no-contest. But it wasn't looking too good for Thompson.

Jones backs out like that against Rashad, he'll find himself getting double legged, drove into the fence and drug down.

Haha, don't take any offense to this Sullivan, but I hate when people say that. Jones was doing that because it was the perfect way to keep Machida at bay. Against Rashad, you know he'll come in with a better strategy. That was the first time I've ever seen Jones run out and circle like that (which is kind of almost identical to how Machida escapes flurries) so I don't think that is Jones' thing.

in contrast to wonderboy , machidas combinations and hands look far better , even though they are both karate guys ,, granted machida is far more seasoned than wonderboy and battle tested , but just by watching them hit pads , his combos are much better suited to mma ..

I didn't think I'd comment on this, but it's probably not good to compare Machida and Thompson. They're both karate guys like a dutch kickboxer and a thai boxer are both kickboxers... it's similar but in the end, Machida's traditional Shotokan and Thompson's American Kenpo are very different.

 

[peanut66]

As mentioned previously, Wonderboy got injured by an illegal but accidental move so it was ruled a no-contest. But it wasn't looking too good for Thompson.



Haha, don't take any offense to this Sullivan, but I hate when people say that. Jones was doing that because it was the perfect way to keep Machida at bay. Against Rashad, you know he'll come in with a better strategy. That was the first time I've ever seen Jones run out and circle like that (which is kind of almost identical to how Machida escapes flurries) so I don't think that is Jones' thing.



I didn't think I'd comment on this, but it's probably not good to compare Machida and Thompson. They're both karate guys like a dutch kickboxer and a thai boxer are both kickboxers... it's similar but in the end, Machida's traditional Shotokan and Thompson's American Kenpo are very different.

i like machidas style of karate better for mma , thats what i mean , knees , hands and footwork seem better suited ,,

anyways JUKAI , who do you got winning between the two , when and how ? also who you got for jones vs evans ?

 

[Bay Area]

Rashad has to come out of the gate applying pressure. Jones is a momentum fighter, like Anderson Silva. Get in his face. Like how Sonnen did to Anderson Silva.

Jones is unstoppable in kicking range and clinching/dirty boxing range.
Boxing range is where you want to be. If you watch Jones V Rampage, Jones was never in boxing range during that fight. He was either in kicking range, or he quickly tied up for the clinch.

 

[ssullivan80]

This is true. Kind of like Wanderlei Vs Cung Lee. Except Cung has better hands than Wonderboy, and is willing to exchange hands, rather than leap away. In punching range, Wonderboy still has that instep kick KO which he can use after a straight. That kick is sneaky. But aside from that I dont see anything else. Good thing the Octogon is made for sprinters.

Good analogy, as would Shogun vs Machida be. But your right, Thompson certainly has some tricky and explosive offensive techniques that are going to be tough to defend and could end the fight. But the way I see it, he's a 1 trick pony, what's he going to do when he has to really fight........ ?

I definitely agree. Fighters who fight out of a sideways stance as most Karate or San Shou guys do are known to be at a disadvantage when backed into the cage.
They seem to rely so much on their kicks and being in kicking distance , that when they are forced to fight closer up they wilt under heavy punchers pressure.

I just dont think Brown has the speed or explosive wrestling takedowns to force Thompson back into the cage. I believe Thompson will control the range and counter Brown into a TKO or decision victory.

We'll see tomorrow night...

One of the things that sets Machida/Cung apart from the typical Karate/TKD fighter is that they both are good wrestlers and clinch fighters, and both of them are well versed on the mat. This gives them the opportunity to really use their stand up, in-out style more effectively, as neither of them are easily outmatched when they do end up clinched up or on the mat. They don't have to be nearly as hesitant.

As for Thompson being faster than Brown, sure he is, by a long shot. But a fighter like Thompson relies on distance to control the fight. Brown doesn't need to be fast or explosive, he just needs to do what he has done consistently in his fights and apply constant and steady pressure, keep coming forward . Machida and Cung were both much faster than Shogun/Wand. Neither Wand or Shogun (at this point) are considered explosive or have great TD's..... They just kept coming forward and took away the space, they kept pressure......... look how that worked out. Matt Brown IMO does the same thing to Thompson.

 

[Bay Area]

Well I got Jones by 3rd round stoppage
and Wonderboy by 2nd round KO.

I dont think Brown has the reflexes to react in time to the many angles Wonderboys attacks will come in.

Wonderboy does what he does too damn well. He's like what, 70-0 in kickboxing? He will be able to implement his game plan. Especially in that huge Octogon with no corners.

Brown is nothing special. He is a workhorse with decent stand up. But he doesnt have the necessary talent to beat homie on the feet. His standup is solid though, he looks good in that area.

 

[1Strike]

One of the things that sets Machida/Cung apart from the typical Karate/TKD fighter is that they both are good wrestlers and clinch fighters, and both of them are well versed on the mat. This gives them the opportunity to really use their stand up, in-out style more effectively, as neither of them are easily outmatched when they do end up clinched up or on the mat. They don't have to be nearly as hesitant.

As for Thompson being faster than Brown, sure he is, by a long shot. But a fighter like Thompson relies on distance to control the fight. Brown doesn't need to be fast or explosive, he just needs to do what he has done consistently in his fights and apply constant and steady pressure, keep coming forward . Machida and Cung were both much faster than Shogun/Wand. Neither Wand or Shogun (at this point) are considered explosive or have great TD's..... They just kept coming forward and took away the space, they kept pressure......... look how that worked out. Matt Brown IMO does the same thing to Thompson.

I agree about Machida and Cung's takedown defense serving them well to strike in their fights without fear of hitting the mat.

The problem for Brown is he has to come forward to try and take Thompson down
and Thompson's quick footwork, angles and counter kicks to Brown's forward movement may play right into his game.

Also I don't know how good his ground game is except for the fact that he has grappled for quite a few years according to various sources on the net and how St Pierre and Firas Zahabi are are speaking so highly of him in general.

 

[devante]

I definitely agree. Fighters who fight out of a sideways stance as most Karate or San Shou guys do are known to be at a disadvantage when backed into the cage.
They seem to rely so much on their kicks and being in kicking distance , that when they are forced to fight closer up they wilt under heavy punchers pressure.

I just dont think Brown has the speed or explosive wrestling takedowns to force Thompson back into the cage. I believe Thompson will control the range and counter Brown into a TKO or decision victory.

We'll see tomorrow night...

i agree brown is strong physical and tough; but he isn't anywhere near top flight athletically, not powerwise..not speedwise or reaction or agility. Not to mention his set ups in his standup and in his wrestling is far from textbook or fluid. His strength pressure and style of fight can cause an issue w/thompson, in that thompson doesn't seem like a big hitter at all. Accurate speedy dynamic..yes...powerful, not at all and that will assist in brown being able to consistently press and get the clinch. As well as in the clinch i don't think thompson has the horsepower to keep or control brown.

but brown is not a particularly skillful fighter, its his toughness and tenacity and physicality that does him the most good..not his skills..

thompson should be able to outclass him and outmanuever him; an it should be exciting based on the fact that brown is not gonna stop coming.

 

[ssullivan80]

Well I got Jones by 3rd round stoppage
and Wonderboy by 2nd round KO. I dont think Brown has the reflexes to react in time to the many angles Wonderboys attacks will come in. Wonderboy does what he does too damn well. He's like what, 70-0 in kickboxing? He will be able to implement his game plan. Especially in that huge Octogon with no corners.

Brown is nothing special. He is a workhorse with decent stand up. But he doesnt have the necessary talent to beat homie on the feet. His standup is solid though, he looks good in that area.

I got Suga by 5rd UD, I think he finds a way to get to JJ take him down and grinds out a decision. I see this as a 5rd fight, either way. If it ends early, it's either a KO by Rashad or sub by JJ.

As for Brown vs. Thompson, I don't care if Thompson is 100-0 in kickboxing, he's not in a kickboxing match vs. Brown. I got Brown via 2nd rd stoppage (GNP). Brown may be nothing special, but he is gonna come to fight and he's going to go after Thompson, ugly like. Sure, Brown may not have that "something special". He does't have the "flash" or finesse of Thompson....... but like you said, he's a "workhorse" and ain't the least bit timid of getting into a battle. Basically, I pick Matt Brown for the same reasons I don't bet against the Steelers in the playoffs. He might not have the "hype", but he's got the "grit".

Either way, we'll find out soon. This is just my opinion and i've been wrong plenty before. We will see.

 

[ssullivan80]

I agree about Machida and Cung's takedown defense serving them well to strike in their fights without fear of hitting the mat.

The problem for Brown is he has to come forward to try and take Thompson down
and Thompson's quick footwork, angles and counter kicks to Brown's forward movement may play right into his game.

Also I don't know how good his ground game is except for the fact that he has grappled for quite a few years according to various sources on the net and how St Pierre and Firas Zahabi are are speaking so highly of him in general.

I don't think Brown is gonna look to take him down as much as he is going to try to knock him down then jump on him. Sure, Thompson's likely got a significant advantage as Browns coming forward....... But Brown's got the kinda chin that he will not be hesitant to take one to get to Thompson....... then what? As for Thompson's ground game...... who knows, he's got BB in BJJ and has won via submission in prior fights. But not against higher level competition.

 

[devante]

Good analogy, as would Shogun vs Machida be. But your right, Thompson certainly has some tricky and explosive offensive techniques that are going to be tough to defend and could end the fight. But the way I see it, he's a 1 trick pony, what's he going to do when he has to really fight........ ?



One of the things that sets Machida/Cung apart from the typical Karate/TKD fighter is that they both are good wrestlers and clinch fighters, and both of them are well versed on the mat. This gives them the opportunity to really use their stand up, in-out style more effectively, as neither of them are easily outmatched when they do end up clinched up or on the mat. They don't have to be nearly as hesitant.

As for Thompson being faster than Brown, sure he is, by a long shot. But a fighter like Thompson relies on distance to control the fight. Brown doesn't need to be fast or explosive, he just needs to do what he has done consistently in his fights and apply constant and steady pressure, keep coming forward . Machida and Cung were both much faster than Shogun/Wand. Neither Wand or Shogun (at this point) are considered explosive or have great TD's..... They just kept coming forward and took away the space, they kept pressure......... look how that worked out. Matt Brown IMO does the same thing to Thompson.

shogun is more athletic and dynamic than brown, and he is actually a better pure striker than brown; just to be fair, as that pertains to that comparison. Shogun had all of the phys tools and tech tools to do that blueprint, an even then it took two tries to finish the job.

cung and wanderlei fits much more appropriately in my estimation and is an example of what can happen to thompson in this fight, that being said le had wanderlei dead to rigthts and fucked it up trying to be facy instead of just finishing. That and as dynamic as cung is, in my opinion he isn't as accuarte w/his strikes nearly as thompson is and while thompson can maintain dist w/his footwork, cung relies on his striking to do that. An that is a huge diff...


but i agree so far thompson has show one trick and as i stated that lack of power may cost him...

 

[1Strike]

I don't think Brown is gonna look to take him down as much as he is going to try to knock him down then jump on him. Sure, Thompson's likely got a significant advantage as Browns coming forward....... But Brown's got the kinda chin that he will not be hesitant to take one to get to Thompson....... then what? As for Thompson's ground game...... who knows, he's got BB in BJJ and has won via submission in prior fights. But not against higher level competition.

Here I gotta hugely disagree.

If Brown tries to strike with Thompson, then he is probably gonna end up like most of Wonderboy's kickboxing opponents - KO'd.

Having a good chin is one thing, getting head kicked is a whole other.
I don't think Brown can eat a flush head kick like Mark Hunt can and stay on his feet.

If Brown does win it will be by grinding out a decision via gnp or pulling a submission. He would be a fool to stand and trade with Thompson.

 

[Pipe]

Thompson. Matt brown has never been more than average as a pro.

 

[peanut66]

i hate to disagree with you but cung le standup is light years ahead of thompsons, its just that wanderlei was just so tough , ive watched a bit of thompsons videos , and there isnt anything special there ,, in regards to transfering it into mma .

dont forget we are comparing thompsons ability against far lesser opponents
most of hilights are against amatuers ,and all we have seen from cung le is against top level mma fighters


Cung Le Killer Kicks Highlight - YouTube cung le hilights


Stephen Thompson UFC - YouTube thompsons first ufc fight

WONDERBOY PROMO 2010 - YouTube thompsons hilights


watch them all and compare for your self

 

[ssullivan80]

shogun is more athletic and dynamic than brown, and he is actually a better pure striker than brown; just to be fair, as that pertains to that comparison. Shogun had all of the phys tools and tech tools to do that blueprint, an even then it took two tries to finish the job.


but i agree so far thompson has show one trick and as i stated that lack of power may cost him...

I agree, Brown is nowhere near the striker that Shogun is. But Thompson is nowhere near the MMA fighter that Machida is either. He may be as athletic, but nowhere near as dynamic from what we know of him........ Comparisons to scale was what I was suggesting in that analogy. Skill level neither Thompson or Brown are comparable at this point to Shogun or Machida.

And I agree, Thompson has to rely on the element of suprise to make up for that lack of power. Machida posses that same element, the difference being Machida has 1 shot KO power in both his kick, punches!

Here I gotta hugely disagree.

If Brown tries to strike with Thompson, then he is probably gonna end up like most of Wonderboy's kickboxing opponents - KO'd.

Having a good chin is one thing, getting head kicked is a whole other.
I don't think Brown can eat a flush head kick like Mark Hunt can and stay on his feet.

If Brown does win it will be by grinding out a decision via gnp or pulling a submission. He would be a fool to stand and trade with Thompson.

Wonderboy's KO ratio was sub 50% in kickboxing. Melvin Manhoef had a near 90% KO ratio in kickboxing against top level pro competition, and got his lights put out by Lawlor. But to be fair, that is equally as biased as comparing Brown's KO power to Robbie's. Nonetheless, this is not a kickboxing match........ I know there is this misnomer that stand up fighting in MMA is the same as it is in boxing or kickboxing, it ain't! Does it translate, absolutely. But there are countless references of boxers or kickboxers getting KO'd by guys without that same pedigree in MMA bouts.

Thompson. Matt brown has never been more than average as a pro.

And "wonderboy" has barely been a pro, and has never actually been in fight with so much as an average pro......... He's got 1 fight in the UFC, that ended in the 1st round, without him ever getting hit. There are a whole slew of guys who end up on "greatest ko" highlight reels and you never see them again.

 

[1Strike]

Wonderboy's KO ratio was sub 50% in kickboxing. Melvin Manhoef had a near 90% KO ratio in kickboxing and got his lights put out by Lawler. But to be fair, that is equally as biased as comparing Brown's KO power to Robbie's.

63 fights with 30 knockouts, compared to 7 KO's total career wise for Brown...

And as far as Melvin Manhoef vs.Robbie Lawler, Lawler was getting DESTROYED until Melvin over commited by being so hyper aggresive and Lawler landed the one big hailmary punch.

That's a whole other argument, but in my opinion 9 times outta 10
Melvin would beat Lawler.

 

[Bay Area]

i hate to disagree with you but cung le standup is light years ahead of thompsons, its just that wanderlei was just so tough , ive watched a bit of thompsons videos , and there isnt anything special there ,, in regards to transfering it into mma .

dont forget we are comparing thompsons ability against far lesser opponents
most of hilights are against amatuers ,and all we have seen from cung le is against top level mma fighters


Cung Le Killer Kicks Highlight - YouTube cung le hilights


Stephen Thompson UFC - YouTube thompsons first ufc fight

WONDERBOY PROMO 2010 - YouTube thompsons hilights


watch them all and compare for your self

fixed




clearly Cung has more tools to use than Thompson

 

[ssullivan80]

63 fights with 30 knockouts, compared to 7 KO's total career wise for Brown...

And as far as Melvin Manhoef vs.Robbie Lawler, Lawler was getting DESTROYED until Melvin over commited by being so hyper aggresive and Lawler landed the one big hailmary punch.

That's a whole other argument, but in my opinion 9 times outta 10
Melvin would beat Lawler.

Here's how I see it

Thompson career Pro "MMA" KO's = 1

Brown career Pro "MMA" KO's = 7

Using Thompsons kickboxing KO's to measure his ability to KO Matt Brown in an MMA match is not relevant. If that statistic held true then James Toney would be the UFC HW champ!

As for Manhoef, I do agree. He was beating the piss out of Robbie and then got caught. Still, Robbie was fighting an MMA fight and his experience in MMA vs. Manhoefs inexperience is what got Melvin put to sleep IMO. Should Melvin of won, yeah, but he didn't. Should Cro-Cop of gotten KO'd by Gonzaga, nope, but he did. Gilbert Yvel had a 90% or better KO ratio, with 35+ KO's in pro mma/kickboxing, JDS put him to sleep awful quick. Should Thompson be able to beat Brown on his feet, yep! in a kickboxing match. will he in an MMA match........ I don't think so. But we will see.

 

[Bay Area]

But Brown's got the kinda chin that he will not be hesitant to take one to get to Thompson....... then what?

If you look at this gif, you will see Thompson's opponent having no clue whatsoever the kick was coming. He is looking right into Thompsons eyes while the kick sneaks up from behind and takes him out.

These are the type attack angles Thompson brings to the table. It doesn't matter how hard your chin is. The ones that you dont see are the ones that usually drop you.

But its only my opinion. We shall see...

 

[Bay Area]

Brown does have pretty good stand up. I think we are downplaying too much.
And I think we are overplaying Shogun's stand up