Why John Danaher Refused to Shake Hands with Mike Davila at EBI

[NSchoke]

And frankly the 'I only do sub only tournaments' excuse is pretty thin, because sub only tournaments typically do not have the same caliber of competitor as points tournaments. There's just no comparison between the level of competition in EBI and ADCC. And when EBI stars like Tonon, Cummings, Geo Martinez, etc. have stepped up to the big leagues they've consistently fallen short.

Generally, I agree with what you're saying. I prefer points tournaments and the style they encourage over sub only. I think these guys are closing the gap quickly though. The standards that you're holding them to, very few can stack up to. There's probably 1 or 2 guys at each weight who could. Even Keenan has no ADCC title and no Black belt World Championship. He's been training much longer and in the spotlight longer than any of these guys. Do you think he's B-team because Lo seems to have his #? I don't, I think his day will come.

DDS has been getting beat by guys like Lepri, Tanqinho, ect lately. They've got work to do but thats nothing to be ashamed of. They've already got a 20 year old with back to back wins over ADCC gold and bronze medalist. They're dismantling anyone who isn't a Black Belt medal contender, usually in quick and exciting fashion. No one else is doing this. Alot of the success of EBI is owed to DDS IMO, if Metamoris had more DDS they probably would have done better. These guys go for the kill.

EBI guys have come up short at ADCC, losing to the very best guys, how have ADCC guys done at EBI?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Generally, I agree with what you're saying. I prefer points tournaments and the style they encourage over sub only. I think these guys are closing the gap quickly though. The standards that you're holding them to, very few can stack up to. There's probably 1 or 2 guys at each weight who could. Even Keenan has no ADCC title and no Black belt World Championship. He's been training much longer and in the spotlight longer than any of these guys. Do you think he's B-team because Lo seems to have his #? I don't, I think his day will come.

DDS has been getting beat by guys like Lepri, Tanqinho, ect lately. They've got work to do but thats nothing to be ashamed of. They've already got a 20 year old with back to back wins over ADCC gold and bronze medalist. They're dismantling anyone who isn't a Black Belt medal contender, usually in quick and exciting fashion. No one else is doing this. Alot of the success of EBI is owed to DDS IMO, if Metamoris had more DDS they probably would have done better. These guys go for the kill.

EBI guys have come up short at ADCC, losing to the very best guys, how have ADCC guys done at EBI?

To be clear, I like their style, recent weirdness with Danaher not withstanding. And I do think they're fantastic BJJ fighters, and have become so in relatively short spans of time (especially Ryan). But I think they themselves would prefer comparisons to the Leandro Los of the world rather than being judged by the standards of some of the good-but-not-great guys they tear apart in EBI. And when you talk so much about the superiority of your style, you need to be able to back that up against the best in the world. I'll add too that while Keenan doesn't have an ADCC or Mundials gold, he has an ADCC silver and Mundials Bronze which is more top flight hardware than all the DDS guys combined. Like I've said several times, I'm really looking forward to ADCC 2017 to see how they do. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see one or more take home medals, though I don't know that any of them are on the cusp of winning yet. I'll maintain that Keenan has already proved himself to be one of the elite guys in the world under any rule set, and the DDS guys aren't quite there yet. Keenan can beat any guy on any given day (he actually does have a win against Lo FYI), it's hard for me to see, say, Tonon beating Lepri based on their past results. But time will tell.

 

[steezyvegas]

This has to be the most stupid thing I've ever read. Eddie picked the most marketable person who cares John. You were about to let Gary and Eddie compete against each other lol. Gary could have gotten if he had the drive like Mike had to talk some shit. Such a weird guy and team. Keenan is gonna smash and make them look likes fools. You can't beat up nobodies at EBI and Metamoris and expect real respect.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

This has to be the most stupid thing I've ever read. Eddie picked the most marketable person who cares John. You were about to let Gary and Eddie compete against each other lol. Gary could have gotten if he had the drive like Mike had to talk some shit. Such a weird guy and team. Keenan is gonna smash and make them look likes fools. You can't beat up nobodies at EBI and Metamoris and expect real respect.

Yes, because if I lead a team I would want the best social media asskisser to compete under my team's name instead of the most qualified.
How do you think you make the olympic team???

 

[JustTheTip]

I've been saying for years that it is unfair to compare the feats of these niche grapplers to IBJJF or ADCC champs. It is like a midlevel starter in the NBA going to the Euroleague because he "likes the European rules better",tearing it up, and then getting compared to Lebron James,Stephen Curry, or Kevin Durant.

 

[randomg1t]

Yes, because if I lead a team I would want the best social media asskisser to compete under my team's name instead of the most qualified.
How do you think you make the olympic team???

by attaining the qualification standard, which is not vague in any way, but very clear and concise.

how do you think you make the EBI? by getting invited by eddie bravo, whatever the fuck his reasons may be.

this has been explained to you many times, yet you refuse to grasp the concept.

 

[Codger]

In these situations, you're getting paid. You're using this to employer to employee/contractor type of analogy. But if I go to a BJJ academy, I'm the one paying. If I'm paying your salary, why should I be getting treated like an employee?

You shouldn't be treated like an employee. However it's not like a gym membership for say a LA Fitness. Most BJJ gyms are "clubs" where there are various levels of camaraderie, a team ethos, club techniques and so on. To a certain extent I think that if you join a club you have to play by it's rules. You're free to train elsewhere if you don't like the rules. Plenty of clubs and associations have rules outside of BJJ too. Golf clubs have dress and behaviour codes. It would be easy to say "oh some guy telling a grown man how to dress and act...I'm not putting up with cultish crap like that". And I think we'd all agree that's stupid - join a club without the rules if you want but don't expect to be able to act how you want just because you pay.

This doesn't give owners the right to treat people like idiots but on the other hand some "loyalty" can be asked for and by being a member you're tacitly agreeing to it.
On the whole I take the "my money, my rules" philosophy and I don't like being barred from training elsewhere etc but owners who run clubs like that have a point when they say "find but train somewhere you DO like the rules then".

I'm making a more general point here. Danaher does seem to have over-reacted here especially with the supposed banning of people for merely supporting the guy, it true.

 

[nodferatu]

1. DDS has been getting beat by guys like Lepri, Tanqinho, ect lately. They've got work to do but thats nothing to be ashamed of. 2. They've already got a 20 year old with back to back wins over ADCC gold and bronze medalist. They're dismantling anyone who isn't a Black Belt medal contender, usually in quick and exciting fashion. No one else is doing this. 3. A lot of the success of EBI is owed to DDS IMO, if Metamoris had more DDS they probably would have done better. These guys go for the kill.

1. Double standard. If they beat Lepri or Tanq then it shows that their hard work and DDS system works, but if they lose then it's no shame because of who it is. Weak.

2. The 20 year old has an * beside both of those wins because it was in bullshit overtime rules. The same goes for any EBI competitor, not just them.

3. Yes, a lot of success for EBI is contributed to them because of the mismatches and lack of "top" (and I use that term loosely because even though a couple are still very dangerous they're hardly at their peak anymore) talent that enters. I'm a big fan of Glover and Yoshida both but lets be real here, Glover doesn't take anything seriously anymore and Baret is an older and accomplished grappler who is game to take on anyone.

EBI guys have come up short at ADCC, losing to the very best guys, how have ADCC guys done at EBI?

And come up short at Nogi Worlds. Take away their heel hooks and what do they have? I'm not trying to be a hater on them but FFS they're like a fucking shoyoroll gi, marketing hype.

And I don't think you'll see the very best ADCC people in their prime enter EBI because of the rules and the ability to stall to get to OT and get a "win" over a big name.

 

[NSchoke]

by attaining the qualification standard, which is not vague in any way, but very clear and concise.

how do you think you make the EBI? by getting invited by eddie bravo, whatever the fuck his reasons may be.

this has been explained to you many times, yet you refuse to grasp the concept.

People grasp the concept just fine. There's just a difference of opinion. Some people feel like if someone's name is heavily leveraged without their permission for personal gain, they should be able to say something about it. Some people seem to feel you can break team policy and do whatever you need to to get ahead.

Also some people feel that if people want to follow their instructor to a new school after a fallout, it's nice of the Academy to let them out of their contracts, it probably best for everyone. Some people seem to feel that they should be forced to keep their contracts even though their situation changed.

These 2 groups will probably never see eye to eye, it doesn't mean they don't grasp the situation. Everyone see's the world thru different goggles.

 

[NSchoke]

1. Double standard. If they beat Lepri or Tanq then it shows that their hard work and DDS system works, but if they lose then it's no shame because of who it is. Weak..

There is no shame in anyone losing to either of these guys. They could beat anyone on any given day.
The DDS system does work, these guys finish more guys faster than anyone else.

2. The 20 year old has an * beside both of those wins because it was in bullshit overtime rules. The same goes for any EBI competitor, not just them..

We'll also put an * beside Tanq's O/T win over Cummings because of the -1 for guard pulling even though everyone knew and agreed before hand... Seems legit.

And come up short at Nogi Worlds. Take away their heel hooks and what do they have? I'm not trying to be a hater on them but FFS they're like a fucking shoyoroll gi, marketing hype.

And I don't think you'll see the very best ADCC people in their prime enter EBI because of the rules and the ability to stall to get to OT and get a "win" over a big name.

Heel hooks are part of BJJ at this point, they also have good guilotines and good back attacks though.

And I'm not sure where you're coming from with never seeing the best ADCC people in their prime at ADCC. Yuri Simoes is pretty young and fresh off of ADCC Gold, are you saying he hasn't reached his prime yet?

 

[randomg1t]

People grasp the concept just fine. There's just a difference of opinion. Some people feel like if someone's name is heavily leveraged without their permission for personal gain, they should be able to say something about it. Some people seem to feel you can break team policy and do whatever you need to to get ahead.

Also some people feel that if people want to follow their instructor to a new school after a fallout, it's nice of the Academy to let them out of their contracts, it probably best for everyone. Some people seem to feel that they should be forced to keep their contracts even though their situation changed.

These 2 groups will probably never see eye to eye, it doesn't mean they don't grasp the situation. Everyone see's the world thru different goggles.

their name was heavily leveraged? how? do you think davila got the invite because of RGA / danaher, or because eddie actually saw him kick ass at another tournament and wanted him in? danaher (and many of his fans) greatly overestimate the weight of his name and the name of the academy.

a good instructor does what's best for his students. all of his students, not just the selected few. a good instructor would've asked eddie to replace the invite with someone else, and when told it wasn't going to happen, he would've helped prepare the chosen student. a manipulative, selfish instructor would kick the chosen student out, act like a bitch at the actual tournament, and then write a 75 page report on it.

so what you're saying is everyone left because they wanted to? cause that isn't what we're hearing here. but if you are correct, then that's great.

 

[Spazzmaster]

Yes, because if I lead a team I would want the best social media asskisser to compete under my team's name instead of the most qualified.

this has been explained to you many times, yet you refuse to grasp the concept.

This "Pixelated Porn" has 2,200 posts in three months. This is obviously someone who doesn't have much of a life. Why bother explaining anything to such a waster of time?

Of course, Sherdog is full of such posters. Which raises the question, why spend time here at all?

 

[nodferatu]

There is no shame in anyone losing to either of these guys. They could beat anyone on any given day.
The DDS system does work, these guys finish more guys* faster than anyone else.

*guys who are "past their prime" or have been out of competition for a while

We'll also put an * beside Tanq's O/T win over Cummings because of the -1 for guard pulling even though everyone knew and agreed before hand... Seems legit.

Soooo even though he knew about the rule before hand in what is considered to be the worlds best no gi tournament, and still broke it, there should be an asterisk? Seems legit.

Heel hooks are part of BJJ at this point, they also have good guilotines and good back attacks though.

No, heel hooks are part of "submission grappling". Tonon did yes, probably still does, but all cummings and ryan do are heel hooks. Granted it works for them, but eventually it won't and then what? Hopefully the Camel Clutch or Crippler Crossface

And I'm not sure where you're coming from with never seeing the best ADCC people in their prime at ADCC. Yuri Simoes is pretty young and fresh off of ADCC Gold, are you saying he hasn't reached his prime yet?

*And I don't think you'll see the very best ADCC people in their prime enter EBI. - Very best = The ones who are dominate year after year.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

This "Pixelated Porn" has 2,200 posts in three months. This is obviously someone who doesn't have much of a life. Why bother explaining anything to such a waster of time?

Of course, Sherdog is full of such posters. Which raises the question, why spend time here at all?

It has been explained but I don't agree with the dumb shit he is saying.

 

[mgbyrnc]

lol.. are you guys even martial artists or just frat bros who do jiu jitsu?

to quote ryan hall - "its about conducting yourself in an honorable and respectful way"

john is the boss of this team and i support his decision in this matter

 

[randomg1t]

It has been explained but I don't agree with the dumb shit he is saying.

so you don't agree that you qualify for the eddie bravo invitational by being invited by eddie bravo?

dumb shit, indeed.

lol.. are you guys even martial artists or just frat bros who do jiu jitsu?

to quote ryan hall - "its about conducting yourself in an honorable and respectful way"

john is the boss of this team and i support his decision in this matter

john is the only one not conducting himself in an honorable and respectful way here.

and yeah, if the choice is between frat bro and ancient samurai who obeys his master, i'll go with being the frat bro.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

2. The 20 year old has an * beside both of those wins because it was in bullshit overtime rules. The same goes for any EBI competitor, not just them.

So let me get this straight, you put an * besides someones record because he beat someone with a set of rules that you considered they are bullshit??? and then this comes out of your fingers....

Soooo even though he knew about the rule before hand in what is considered to be the worlds best no gi tournament, and still broke it, there should be an asterisk? Seems legit.

ones win over the other in an overtime rules should have *, eventhough both players knew before hand the rules, but the other shouldnt be eventhough he basically lost on a penalty by sitting on his ass, something that is quite normal in bjj...

your reasoning seems legit hum, excuse me to ask but... who the fuck are you again to dictate when a rule set win should be legit and when not? in both cases both participants knew the rules how to win and how to lose.

And come up short at Nogi Worlds. Take away their heel hooks and what do they have? I'm not trying to be a hater on them but FFS they're like a fucking shoyoroll gi, marketing hype.

really? eddie cummins just RNC the fuck out of most of his opponents.

And if you think not getting beat by tanquinho in over 2 hours of battle is just marketing, I will have to ask you again, who the fuck are you again???? unless you are at galvaos mendes braulios or some other elite competitor level, you have no place in this planet to call someone like cummings "all marketing"...

And I don't think you'll see the very best ADCC people in their prime enter EBI because of the rules and the ability to stall to get to OT and get a "win" over a big name.

wrong, you wont see it because as soon as elite competitors join the tournament, other drop off, becasue of the payment structure, is quite difficult to sub some other elite player in a no gi contests under 10 minutes, no matter how hard you try, Andre galvao could win the whole thing, but get paid zero if he has to face cyborg vinny and popovitch in the finals (just some random names)...

the payment structure is what will keep the big names out of this type of tournament.

 

[yetanother]

lol.. are you guys even martial artists or just frat bros who do jiu jitsu?

I'm not a martial artist. I consider being a martial artist an insult.
I train primarily to win competitions, not to get a black belt or defend myself against a mugger.

 

[Foppa21]

So childish, why not shake his hand? Its not like Davila had sex with his mum or something. A handshake does not mean you have to love and respect the man you are shaking hands with, it's just a normal thing to do, like saying hi.

Not for some people... You remember the days when people made agreements based on handshakes? For some people it's more that "Hey man, how you?"

 

[Dogstarman]

And come up short at Nogi Worlds. Take away their heel hooks and what do they have?

I don't know man. Heel hooks and leg attacks are becoming more and more mainstream. You need to be able to defend and attack them more often now a days.