Why John Danaher Refused to Shake Hands with Mike Davila at EBI

[NSchoke]

If the guy wasn't my instructor, which is the case here, no I wouldn't care what he has to say. If I was 34 years old in a sport where people don't make shit for money. And I earned my way into EBI by subbing everyone in regulation at a good tournament that used EBI rules, because Eddie Bravo liked my performance. And then my teacher's teacher tells me I don't deserve to be there because I get tapped out by Eddie Cummings in the gym, then yes I would say go to hell and do what Davila did.

If you had earned your way into a tournament would you go on instagram many times asking where your invite is in very creative ways, each time hash tagging a team whose known selection process you are unwilling to adhere too?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Again glad to see Danaher setting and enforcing standards for his program. There's a reason so many high level athletes train there, including Stevens and Harrison.

Here's a recent quote from Harrison
"It's just so different from judo... After a match in judo, you shake a person's hand or you give them a hug. You bow to them to show respect. MMA isn't like that. I don't know if I'm cut out for a world where you get fights based on how pretty you are and how much you talk, not necessarily what you've done in the ring."

The very best want to be judged on merit. Hopefully Danaher stays the course and the people who talk so bad against him open their own academies where the best social media promoters get the push. It'd be interesting to see the results if everyone put their money where their mouth is.

Well, gym taps are hardly the way to rank your fighters...

 

[mataleaos]

If you had earned your way into a tournament would you go on instagram many times asking where your invite is in very creative ways, each time hash tagging a team whose known selection process you are unwilling to adhere too?

Probably not. That does seem annoying.

But I would also want to know how my gym has a selection process for a tournament they aren't allowed to volunteer people for.

 

[NSchoke]

Well, gym taps are hardly the way to rank your fighters...

Agreed, but training does give you a good perspective on where you stand relative to your teammates.

If there's really a question wrestle offs seem like the best way to handle it.

Some guys might step way up in competition but most compete how they train.

 

[ChrmnMa0]

That was actually my point. Danaher is treating Davila worse than a formal employee, even though Davila is not an employee, and is a grown man.

If somebody comes and asks me to take on a big new case, but my firm doesn't want me to take it because it creates a business conflict (which is common), what happens? Well, I can make a free choice. I can go along with the firm's interest by sacrificing my chance, or I can quit and start my own practice or move to another firm. This is exceedingly common. And it's my free choice. I'm a grown man, not a slave, and the firm doesn't own me, nor am I a bad person if I don't throw away my own interests to serve the firm. If the firm said 'you aren't good enough to take this case,' I'd think carefully about (a) whether that was true, and (b) whether the firm was sufficiently looking out for MY best interests. If the firm was wrong on (a) and not looking out for my best interests on (b), I would do what any employee does -- quit and go somewhere else, because my boss is fucking me over and not giving an adequate return. Only a titanic controlling asshole would try to argue that I'm obligated to turn down the opportunity.

But that's not enough for Danaher; just quitting employment isn't okay, because it still lets the quitter get away, unpunished, with the fruits of his disobedience. What might the other employees think? That they have free choices as well, and can act as grown men? That maybe Danaher's commands don't need to be followed by students at his affiliates, and that he often does not have a student's best interests in mind, but rather his own best interests? Where might that line of thinking lead?

A major part of the problem is that BJJ schools like Renzo Gracie's place *are money making entities* that profit from taking paying students. So the students are the ones who employ the teachers. Ever heard of an NFL player paying the team coach? Yeah, it's actually the opposite. In BJJ, the student is the one who decides where to train, and pays for it. BJJ schools often want to (a) take in as many students as possible, happily accepting their money, while (b) asserting ownership over their students, as if they are teaching them out of the disinterested self-sacrifice of their heart, and as if they are doing a precious favor to their students, creating an obligation. They try to work both ends of the system, maximizing their profits.

Danaher doesn't have agreement structures in place that formally allow him intensive control over the competition decisions of his students, much less the students at other Renzo affiliates like Davila. Why? Because BJJ students would find that ridiculous and insane given that they are paying adults not paid employees. If you made it clear, and up front, nobody would agree to it, particularly restrictions on quitting. He'd be looked at as a maniac if he tried to get students to sign a contract providing this. But he nonetheless wants the students to all be subject to intensive control and non-compete structures, following his orders, that exceed what you'd find in a contractual employment relationship. This is why you see the resort to classic cult measures of punishment, exclusion, purging of any individuals who want to support the excommunicated person.

Post-termination non-compete provisions, btw, are illegal in California, where I reside. Why? Because preventing your employee from quitting and working for a competitor is presumptively unfair and exploitative, even if they formally agreed to that, up front, in a written contract. Link if you are interested.

https://www.venable.com/enforcing-non-compete-provisions-in-california-01-13-2012/

I've gone on at length on this subject because I think people, particularly young people, often want to valorize and justify a situation that is loaded with exploitation problems. The normal and healthy mechanisms of setting up and running competitive entities are not well understood, and the sort of abusive structures of informal punishment and coercion that you see in cults and gangs (centering on loyalty, dear leader, elaborate punishment/policing mechanisms, isolation tactics, preventing people from leaving the group and punishing them if they do) are not recognized. Or people make excuses for them.

Best response yet.

 

[NSchoke]

Probably not. That does seem annoying.

But I would also want to know how my gym has a selection process for a tournament they aren't allowed to volunteer people for.

If you're not hashtagging your team, who's had by far more success than anyone, you probably wouldn't have to deal with their selection process but you might not get invited.

If you do leverage the team name, IMO, you have to play by their rules. By hash tagging over and over you're holding yourself out as a representative without their permission. You don't think Eddie Bravo knows #teamrenzogracie or #danaherdeathsquad as well as any local tournament at this point? It's very surprising the amount of people who think Danaher/Renzo's shouldn't be able to do anything about this.

 

[mataleaos]

If you're not hashtagging your team, who's had by far more success than anyone, you probably wouldn't have to deal with their selection process but you might not get invited.

If you do leverage the team name, IMO, you have to play by their rules. By hash tagging over and over you're holding yourself out as a representative without their permission. You don't think Eddie Bravo knows #teamrenzogracie or #danaherdeathsquad as well as any local tournament at this point? It's very surprising the amount of people who think Danaher/Renzo's shouldn't be able to do anything about this.

Fair enough. I was under the impression that he got in because he subbed everyone in regulation at show the art finishers only. I know bravo was watching and kept and eye on the people there.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Agreed, but training does give you a good perspective on where you stand relative to your teammates.

If there's really a question wrestle offs seem like the best way to handle it.

Some guys might step way up in competition but most compete how they train.

if they do that, no problem, I dont think they do a wrestle off though, I might be wrong.

 

[jack36767]

Agreed, but training does give you a good perspective on where you stand relative to your teammates.

If there's really a question wrestle offs seem like the best way to handle it.

Some guys might step way up in competition but most compete how they train.

If Davela had been given a wrestle off and lost, then left because this was the reason, it would actually be less of an issue, everyone knows he left because he wasn't a good enough and just acknowledges he's a piece of shit if he doesn't give credit to his old team. And Danaher looks like the good guy to most people. But they didn't have a wrestle-off so it doesn't matter and we're left with this FUBAR situation

 

[IamStryker]

Mike going to EBI made no sense at all and disrespected his teachers. John did the right thing not faking a respectful handshake.

 

[JenStark]

What he later did wrong was lecturing us about it.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Mike going to EBI made no sense at all and disrespected his teachers. John did the right thing not faking a respectful handshake.

He should have just did this and a lot less crying in these parts