Why do so many people in bjj not lift weights

[shortlefthook]

I will also add that drilling throws and takedowns is a very effective form of strength training. You lift up a human being for an hour, you will get stronger. Functionally stronger than "bro lifting".

There's obviously nothing like grappling with stronger heavier guys to develop that functional strength, however you can't do that all the time

My first post already says that.
Idk what your problem is with "bro lifting" but grappling +"bro lifting" is the most optimal way to train.
Lifting is controlled movement it strengthens your stabilizers, increases bone density and primes your CNS to handle heavy loads.
Wrestling for example is not a controlled movement when's someone's trying to work against you, you can easily get injured going with a bigger stronger guy, it's allot eaiser to make massive strength gain in a gym then trying to progressively overload using humans

Theres no need to dance around the facts

 

[HunterAcosta]

I don't think lifting weights twice a week for an hour, hour and a half is "taking away" from your bjj, unless you are super busy with family and work and those two days are the only days you can get away, and you would rather spend them rolling. I get it in that situation. But to say that it doesn't help your grappling...debatable of course. But it DEFINITELY helps your body. You will find that rolling alone will create inbalances as you age and your body becomes adapted to it so it becomes less of a workout(unless youre doing round robins , shark tank type drills or 100 percent rolling intensity). Injury prevention is key for longevity in bjj. And...nobody talks about this...but maybe you just wanna look better with your shirt off. Nothing wrong with that. I know plenty of skinny fat/fat bjj guys who look like shit with their shirt off..but they can roll well.

 

[vcmmafan]

I will also add that drilling throws and takedowns is a very effective form of strength training. You lift up a human being for an hour, you will get stronger. Functionally stronger than "bro lifting".

Lifting for strength isn’t “bro lifting” Barbell Squats are literally the most effective exercise for strengthening your posterior chain

 

[nefti]

Lifting for strength isn’t “bro lifting” Barbell Squats are literally the most effective exercise for strengthening your posterior chain

Let's curl for martial arts

 

[Matt4786]

For me, I only set aside like 5 hours/week for exercise and I'd rather go to practice than lift weights.

 

[Te Huna Matata]

I would very much disagree with this. Controlling position, in wrestling, is predicated much more on leverage than on strength. The guys with the most leverage are the ones who are the tallest, which means they have less muscle mass and less strength in general. Bursts of power can get in and out of positions much more effectively than leverage, but power doesnt hold a candle to controlling position like leverage does.

As a former wrestler who is on the taller side, I very much agree with this. I am 6'1" and wrestled 189 when I competed (and was very small for the weight at that...should have been 171). I don't think I could outlift 95% of the guys I wrestled. But I was often told I felt extremely strong. I wasn't but I knew how to use my length to my advantage. I absolutely HATED wrestling guys who were taller than me for this very reason. I was a stout leg rider so my entire game was predicated on control.

 

[nefti]

Strength is important, but not how many people think about it. BJJ is comprised mostly of isometric holds or positions, squeezing, holding, gripping, keeping posture. Not a whole lot of dynamic strength. You hear the same arguments that you would be better if you could squat 100 more lbs than if you couldnt. The thing is, you would be 5x better if you could climb a 25 foot rope without your legs than if you could squat 500lbs. You would be much better if you could tear a phone book in half than if you could powerclean 300lbs.

It is the same with being fast. Speed means absolutely nothing in BJJ. Quickness means everything. Both are measures of being fast, one is much more important. Strength is the same way.

This thread really should have ended after this...

 

[CFGroup]

All these Japanese Jujitsu based arts are based on mechanics and neutralizing strength with superior technique.

That said, the average life span of the Japanese Samurai was 28 so longevity wasn't a priority...

Strength training should be tailored around the necessities of the art. Unless you train and lift like an Olympic gymnest(which all serious martial artists should), you are bound to loose flexibility and mobility.

The wrestlers I've worked with have unquestionable resolve and competitive ethic, but being more skilled and training specifically for MA then them neutralizes the unskilled strength eventually.

With unlimited hours,

Tai Sabaki/Yoga/Tai Chi/Gymnastics flexibility training 5:30am

Run/bike ride 9am

Strength training/BJJ every other day 1pm

Judo 6-9pm

 

[shortlefthook]

As a former wrestler who is on the taller side, I very much agree with this. I am 6'1" and wrestled 189 when I competed (and was very small for the weight at that...should have been 171). I don't think I could outlift 95% of the guys I wrestled. But I was often told I felt extremely strong. I wasn't but I knew how to use my length to my advantage. I absolutely HATED wrestling guys who were taller than me for this very reason. I was a stout leg rider so my entire game was predicated on control.

Being tall and skinny isn't any more of advantage than being short and stocky for a weight class it's all about playing to your strengths.
Both have great leverage from different positions, and both have drawbacks.

I preferred wrestling taller guys easier to shoot on and move them off balance.

And many guys who are really tall for the weight class actually felt weak when I grabbed a hold of them

Also to my point you were a great leg rider?
Chances are you have strong hamstrings and glutes despite looking skinny

 

[jr jr]

This thread really should have ended after this...

I don't always agree with Holt but I always check myself and reevaluate what he says. He is probably the highest level regular poster out there with more international experience than the rest of us combined. If he types something I need to be sure I disagree for a really good reason.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Being tall and skinny isn't any more of advantage than being short and stocky for a weight class it's all about playing to your strengths.
Both have great leverage from different positions, and both have drawbacks.

I wasnt talking about advantages of body style, I was commenting on your assessment of control in wrestling and how much strength plays a role in control vs leverage. Care to give me an example of a position where a shorter lever can generate more leverage than a longer one?

 

[Balto]

Care to give me an example of a position where a shorter lever can generate more leverage than a longer one?

It happens all the time.

You're assuming that you always want to use leverage in a positive way to create force. Whereas a lot of times, you want to use leverage in the opposite way to resist force applied to you.

In a basic first class lever, you would want to give yourself a long lever arm if you were trying to move a load. However, if it were reversed and the load were trying to move you, you'd want to create a short lever arm for yourself. This is still the principle of leverage; you're just using it for the opposite purpose now.

This is why short guys are known for "good leverage" in the squat. The guys who squat the most are almost always short and stocky. It's less about them generating tremendous force with their shorter limbs and more about their shorter leverage points naturally translating the same weight into less torque than would be present on a taller person.

So definitely there are quite a few situations where leverage will work more to the advantage of a shorter person. It just depends on which situation it is exactly. But they come up all the time and all together comprise the typical "short guy" style.

 

[Dirty Holt]

It happens all the time.

You're assuming that you always want to use leverage in a positive way to create force. Whereas a lot of times, you want to use leverage in the opposite way to resist force applied to you.

In a basic first class lever, you would want to give yourself a long lever arm if you were trying to move a load. However, if it were reversed and the load were trying to move you, you'd want to create a short lever arm for yourself. This is still the principle of leverage; you're just using it for the opposite purpose now.

This is why short guys are known for "good leverage" in the squat. The guys who squat the most are almost always short and stocky. It's less about them generating tremendous force with their shorter limbs and more about their shorter leverage points naturally translating the same weight into less torque than would be present on a taller person.

So definitely there are quite a few situations where leverage will work more to the advantage of a shorter person. It just depends on which situation it is exactly. But they come up all the time and all together comprise the typical "short guy" style.

This is correct, but it isnt in a control position. Squatting up when someone has your back or framing out when someone is on top is not a control position. You are using shorter limbs to get out of a control position, not maintain control. Like I said in my earlier post: Strength and power are great for entering and exiting control positions, but they do not hold a candle to maintaining a dominant position in wrestling like leverage does.

 

[Balto]

This is correct, but it isnt in a control position. Squatting up when someone has your back or framing out when someone is on top is not a control position. You are using shorter limbs to get out of a control position, not maintain control. Like I said in my earlier post: Strength and power are great for entering and exiting control positions, but they do not hold a candle to maintaining a dominant position in wrestling like leverage does.

It kind of depends on how you define control then, doesn't it? Although I guess BJJ and wrestling have pretty different rulesets here so it will be defined differently.

In BJJ you get the short guy backpack style control a lot. In that one being short is an advantage because the other guy can't pry you off easily. Although the other guy can move, you just cling to him and keep moving right along with him. That is almost always considered good control still though since you have his back.

I can see how that isn't so applicable to wrestling though in which you can only win outright by completely immobilizing your opponent. So point taken there.

 

[nefti]

This is correct, but it isnt in a control position. Squatting up when someone has your back or framing out when someone is on top is not a control position. You are using shorter limbs to get out of a control position, not maintain control. Like I said in my earlier post: Strength and power are great for entering and exiting control positions, but they do not hold a candle to maintaining a dominant position in wrestling like leverage does.

in your opinion, between lifting weights and intense drilling what would be more beneficial to the casual practitioner? From what I experienced in my years of grapping, it is intense drilling. However, i would love to hear what you think.

 

[georgegreece]

Intense weight lifting. 12 reps of x3 sets full body workouts. Get your stamina going it's what matters in a fight. In simple terms if you are going to compete you need to lift weights, take steroids, technique alone won't help you since you will be competing with people that are close to your skill level, as you reach the top of any sport the skill discrepancy is minimized, that's why steroids matter.

 

[shortlefthook]

I wasnt talking about advantages of body style, I was commenting on your assessment of control in wrestling and how much strength plays a role in control vs leverage. Care to give me an example of a position where a shorter lever can generate more leverage than a longer one?

in collegiate?
The Turk comes to mind
long forearms don't really matter as long as your shoulders are really deep since you're using more torso and legs to pin than leverage from your arms, being shorter gives you better drive and naturally you will be tighter than a lankier guy.
but overall from the top, long forearms (prybars) get better leverage for control for that style.
But catch wrestling or bjj?
Any position you make those levers a nuisance by being tight, guys with long arms and legs have a tough time getting out of side control unless they have very good leg flexibility, long arms don't like tight spaces.

Also to the guy belows point it's how you define control.
If strength can be used to explode out of a position or in a position.
Then you never really controlled the position to begin with so the leverage never came into play.
So you need leverage plus strength or else you can't control position to use those levers.
It's all word play anyway I get your original point, but strength still matters even with that in mind, that's my point

It kind of depends on how you define control then, doesn't it? Although I guess BJJ and wrestling have pretty different rulesets here so it will be defined differently.

In BJJ you get the short guy backpack style control a lot. In that one being short is an advantage because the other guy can't pry you off easily. Although the other guy can move, you just cling to him and keep moving right along with him. That is almost always considered good control still though since you have his back.

I can see how that isn't so applicable to wrestling though in which you can only win outright by completely immobilizing your opponent. So point taken there.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- How can your strenght training spam for one hour and half?
You can do a bodybuilding type of split in 40 mins!
I aint surprised you guys get bored.

And bro-lifting is the only way to lift!

 

[MaxMMA]

Only 24 hours in a day, you want to get good at bjj, or good at lifting weights?

Can't believe there are so many that still put this kind of value on lifting weights. Yes the +'s of weightlifting are obvious, but there is a big difference between pushing a weighed bar around and pushing a resisting opponent around.

Shit, interval runs are better use of your time if your time outside of bjj is going to be used to help improve your bjj.

Disclaimer: I'm not shitting on weights, I actually lift 2-3 days a week myself if I'm not in a fight camp, but lifting weights is in no way shape or form a priority for optimal grappling preformance.

 

[shortlefthook]

Only 24 hours in a day, you want to get good at bjj, or good at lifting weights?

Can't believe there are so many that still put this kind of value on lifting weights. Yes the +'s of weightlifting are obvious, but there is a big difference between pushing a weighed bar around and pushing a resisting opponent around.

Shit, interval runs are better use of your time if your time outside of bjj is going to be used to help improve your bjj.

Disclaimer: I'm not shitting on weights, I actually lift 2-3 days a week myself if I'm not in a fight camp, but lifting weights is in no way shape or form a priority for optimal grappling preformance.

one is not better than the other for everybody.
If you have trouble with cardio do more cardio, if you have trouble with strength lift more, attack whatever is holding back your grappling while still getting better.

In bjj you get allot of cardio as is, if you're grappling hard running won't give you another type of cardio that's not achievable through grappling.
you def won't get that strength gain as fast or safe when grappling when compared to progressively overloading with weights.

In a perfect world you do both, if you can only do one find the one that would benefit your game/style the most.
Strong squat? Easier to stand in guard.
Strong deadlift? Harder to break posture.
Strong Turkish getup? Harder to hold down.
Running however the same conditioning benefits can be achieved through grappling.