white belt beating black belt

[JWebb]

As stated before there are alot of variables for things like this to happen. I saw a BJJ black belt get tapped by a purple belt and a blue belt one right after the other before. I know the BJJ black belt and he is very good. He is also a Judo BB so he is very good all around.

However he had been coming off a back injury where he had surgery and this was the first time he had rolled in about a year and a half and 9 months after the surgery. Also he was giving up about 30 pounds to the other guys and definetly looked tired when rolling with them. So my point is yes although we think of black belts as this high level that only other black belts can touch we also have to consider other factors when something like this happens. Most of the time there is something going on there (injury, weight...ect) that has evened the playing field enough to allow the lower belt to win.

I am a purple belt and have trained for over 5 years now. I have scored on my black belt instructor many times but never once tapped him out during a live roll.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

he was lighter than the BJJ BB but yes the white belt was much more athletic a freak of nature really.

then I would have to say the BB was probably letting him work, or trying a new defense or something and it didn't work. that happens. why don't you have that white belt ask him to go hard next time like it was a tournament, then see what happens.

There is some cases where a black belt isn't up to par, also the black belt can only good at gi and suck at no-gi, he could be coming off an injury, he could have been exhausted, or the guy who caught him really could just be that good, but more than likely it's what I said above.

regardless you have never tapped a black belt unless you've done it in a tournament.

 

[Jaxx]

Shock! Horror!

How dare a Judoka tap out a BJJ BB!

 

[InvertedBJJ]

then I would have to say the BB was probably letting him work, or trying a new defense or something and it didn't work. that happens. why don't you have that white belt ask him to go hard next time like it was a tournament, then see what happens.

There is some cases where a black belt isn't up to par, also the black belt can only good at gi and suck at no-gi, or the gy who caught really could just be that good, but more than likely it's what I said above.

regardless you have never tapped a black belt unless you've done it in a tournament.

I doubt he would win by a basic arm bar.

This thread is the reason why black belts should not even let white belts even tap them for training purposes. This is what happens. I wonder what that guy would think if he saw this.

 

[megatonjits]

I tapped a very tired black belt when I was a recently promoted blue belt. It was megaton's wife after she had choked me 3 times with the same baseball choke from side mount in a 8 min session before pan ams. I did a duck under right into a triangle and sunk it deep and she did not want to tap. I tried reversing it into the marcelo triangle then went back to regular triangle I didn't want to be rude and force it but she was postured up and defending so well. So I just went ahead and pulled her head down and tightened as hard as I could and she tapped. I felt awesome because I knew she didn't just give it to me she was nearly passed out and I don't think she wanted to lose in front of everyone at the gym including megaton. No worries though because megaton proceeded to shut me down 5 times in 8 minutes and severly worked my hand with about 4 different types of wrist locks. That will teach me not to reach or grab the lapel when I pass every again, none the less she still tapped me effortlessly in the first 5 mins and I just got lucky because she didn't expect the duck under triangle. Oh by the way thanks for that move mikey it really does catch people of guard when they think your going to go for there back with the duck under.

 

[toxo]

judo's no joke

 

[georgejjr]

then I would have to say the BB was probably letting him work, or trying a new defense or something and it didn't work. that happens. why don't you have that white belt ask him to go hard next time like it was a tournament, then see what happens.

There is some cases where a black belt isn't up to par, also the black belt can only good at gi and suck at no-gi, he could be coming off an injury, he could have been exhausted, or the guy who caught him really could just be that good, but more than likely it's what I said above.

regardless you have never tapped a black belt unless you've done it in a tournament.

Well, it depends upon what white belt means. Josh Barnett is, by his own admission, a BJJ white belt. He seems to do reasonably well in tournaments against BJJ black belts. Fedor is a BJJ white belt as well, but I suspect he'd be able to beat more than half the 5000 or so BJJ black belts out there even in pure grappling. People are getting hung up on belts, but what they means varies so much there are always exceptions.

Most BJJ'ers who've never wrestled or done judo could never throw your average judo black belt. Jacare on the other hand would throw around your average recreational judo black belt fairly easily. You have to consider the people involved.

BTW, I've thrown a an Olympic medalist, who was even a student of Kimura's. Of course, he was close to 70 years old ... just another variable for the list of why exceptions happen, and why you can't go much by belts or even titles without knowing the details. What's funny about this thread is that its reversed, usually its BJJ'ers claiming an unnamed BJJ white belt tapped an unnamed judo Olympian.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

Well, it depends upon what white belt means. Josh Barnett is, by his own admission, a BJJ white belt. He seems to do reasonably well in tournaments against BJJ black belts. Fedor is a BJJ white belt as well, but I suspect he'd be able to beat more than half the 5000 or so BJJ black belts out there even in pure grappling. People are getting hung up on belts, but what they means varies so much there are always exceptions.

maybe, but we won't know till Fedor gets in there. of course both of them have vast experience with BJJ and have been fighting BJJ black belts for years and years. i think that makes their situation different.

Most BJJ'ers who've never wrestled or done judo could never throw your average judo black belt. Jacare on the other hand would throw around your average recreational judo black belt fairly easily. You have to consider the people involved.

BTW, I've thrown a an Olympic medalist, who was even a student of Kimura's. Of course, he was close to 70 years old ... just another variable for the list of why exceptions happen, and why you can't go much by belts or even titles without knowing the details. What's funny about this thread is that its reversed, usually its BJJ'ers claiming an unnamed BJJ white belt tapped an unnamed judo Olympian.

of course i agree that there are tons of variables to be considered. I didn't mean to imply that the ones I wrote were the only possibilities. just a few examples.

 

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

Shit happens. Roy Nelson got tapped by a white belt at a tournament years ago. People make mistakes. A black belt doesn't make you superman. Who knows what happened...

 

[missourimedic]

Shit happens. Roy Nelson got tapped by a white belt at a tournament years ago. People make mistakes. A black belt doesn't make you superman. Who knows what happened...

Exactly.

I've been walking and running for almost four decades, and guess what? I still stumble and trip on rare occasions. Think about that. (It's a pretty profound analogy, if I do say so myself.)

Being an expert in something doesn't mean you're infallible. We all make mistakes.

 

[ozyabbas]

An olympic silver medallist used to train at my old gym. He could submit everyone apart from the black belt instructor and thats without the gi (he never wore a gi for some reason).

He fought Shinya Aoki after having trained in mma for only 2 months. He almost arm bared Shinya Aoki twice. Shinyas arm was so extended that most other people would of tapped, I guess Shinya has flexible arms.

Shinya couldn't pass the judokas guard until the third round when he had done some ground and pound to soften him up.

 

[Mongol]

An olympic silver medallist used to train at my old gym. He could submit everyone apart from the black belt instructor and thats without the gi (he never wore a gi for some reason).

He fought Shinya Aoki after having trained in mma for only 2 months. He almost arm bared Shinya Aoki twice. Shinyas arm was so extended that most other people would of tapped, I guess Shinya has flexible arms.

Shinya couldn't pass the judokas guard until the third round when he had done some ground and pound to soften him up.

Bu Kyung Jung? Greatest 0-4 fighter ever, that guy is tough as hell and got screwed with his first 4 opponents. Aoki, Ishida, D. Nakamura and Kikuno. That's up there with Nastula

 

[Wooded]

Exactly.

I've been walking and running for almost four decades, and guess what? I still stumble and trip on rare occasions. Think about that. (It's a pretty profound analogy, if I do say so myself.)

Being an expert in something doesn't mean you're infallible. We all make mistakes.

your running's overrated

 

[Mikey Triangles]

Shit happens. Roy Nelson got tapped by a white belt at a tournament years ago. People make mistakes. A black belt doesn't make you superman. Who knows what happened...

a few years ago roy nelson wasn't a black belt. and when it happens in a tournament it actually matters. i get what you were trying to say though and i agree.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

Exactly.

I've been walking and running for almost four decades, and guess what? I still stumble and trip on rare occasions. Think about that. (It's a pretty profound analogy, if I do say so myself.)

Being an expert in something doesn't mean you're infallible. We all make mistakes.

I wouldn't ay it's a very relevant analogy unless you're a professional runner, or competitive track and field coach... of course the analogy would have to be more like do you trip and fall in training allowing your students to get ahead of you... which really doesn't help your point at all.

 

[fourfif**]

this is why i feel like "meh" about belts. plus it was just practice. and also who cares.

 

[fourfif**]

I'm very curious as to how BJ would do even now with the new rules in Judo, not being able to initiate a single or doubles.

My guess is that he might get thrown about a little bit.

 

[ozyabbas]

Bu Kyung Jung? Greatest 0-4 fighter ever, that guy is tough as hell and got screwed with his first 4 opponents. Aoki, Ishida, D. Nakamura and Kikuno. That's up there with Nastula

Yep, thats the guy. After I left Korea I didn't really follow his mma career.

He had an interesting style. He would do nothing but sit there and defend if you get him in closed guard until you get bored and open up. He didn't have the pit bull style a lot of judokas have, he was very technical and the only judoka I have ever seen use butterfly guard. He would transition a lot until he arm bars the person hes fighting/sparring.

He would normally spar the elite blue, brown and purple belts at one corner of the gym. There was one blue belt he loved sparring. He tapped the blue belt countless times and the blue belt could not do anything to him. After an hour of continuous sparring the blue belt passed his guard, mounted and armbarred him. Everybody was clapping and laughing including him.

 

[singdawg]

not all black belts are created equal.

 

[makaio]

A BB in Judo is not a white belt in BJJ (skills).