What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

[DoctorTaco]

Yeah, we DID get along well. That is until my crew got bigger, I got better, and then changed the way I did things. Then he started to get very critical and would make snide comments about WHAT I was doing, but not me or mentioning me. It all culminated when JR asked me to help him with conditioning only for his most recent fight. I told him ONLY if John said it was ok, and only AFTER he finished everything John asked of him. About a week and a half in John was getting very agitated about the things JR was doing (for whatever fuckin' reason) and then one night he weighed JR soaking wet after a workout on a scale that was 10lbs off and blew a gasket saying I was "making him too buff." Which is absurd because JR was cutting. Really he just couldn't stand to not be in control of everything and it crushed his little ego to accept any help (he blew a similar gasket tonight and lost Alex Thiel, 8 National Titles).

He went off on a bunch of things but what set me off was he said my fighters never win anything. Mike and Joseph were standing right there. At the time Joseph was higher ranked than Alex, and Mike had just fought 3 days in a row, knocked a guy out the first day, almost knocked a guy out the second day, and dropped a close decision the 3rd day. I don't give a fuck what trainers say about me but if you insult guys who bleed in that ring and you've never done that anywhere near that level, I'm gonna tell you to go fuck yourself. Then John refused to apologize for getting out of line, his assistant told him he should and he said: "I know I owe him an apology but I'll apologize whenever the fuck I want." So I told his assistant he should just keep it, because I don't need it. Since then we've become cordial, but he sells himself in the gym by insulting anything anyone does that isn't what he thinks it should be, especially me. He also tries to muscle his fighters in on sparring every time I arrange it. Like a guest comes from another gym to work with my fighter, he tries to shoehorn his fighters in on it. A guy came in with his daughter on a referral from another guy I know, they specifically said they were looking for me and he did his whole sales pitch on how he's a "real trainer" and doesn't do "any of that other kinda bullshit" right in front of me. lol But if I paid that shit any mind he'd figure any reaction means he could bother me, so I didn't, they signed up with me anyway.

Dude thinks I sit up at night thinking about how to be "better" than him, when the truth is he's not even on my radar to compete with. There's another trainer in town who I have the utmost respect for, and my fighters are 0-4 against his (with what I felt was one bad decision). Now THAT guy, I think about. Not a motherfucker who tells people to watch Errol Spence and Vasyl Lomanchenko and then says: "You gotta learn how to do all that" while never showing them what the fuck he's actually talking about.

And yes, Daijon is finally starting to come into his own. He went through a rough year and half or so, but is back on track now and has the right attitude most of the time. He's a fine student despite his faults, which he's quite aware of and has a genuine desire to improve on. But ironically all the other guys are coming into their own well also, maturing well. Jonny Loco had his BEST fight with me the weekend before last, Cyclone Mike had a rough last couple of fights, but has grown quite a bit as a man as a result of that. And my JV squad are even tighter and more tribal than the Varsity squad. My 110lb'er had that ref stoppage and my 141lb 17 year-old who also fought that day took it upon himself to go to his house and make sure he was ok when he didn't come to the gym the next week.



Despite how Cesar looked in that video, he was never unconscious at any point. There's only been one time I've ever had a guy fully lights out, and he didn't spar again for around 4 weeks.

Drills and systems. I’ll never understand why old boxing heads are so against a systematic approach to boxing and using drills to build fighters.

 

[Sinister]

Drills and systems. I’ll never understand why old boxing heads are so against a systematic approach to boxing and using drills to build fighters.

Real old school guys aren't, fakers are because they don't want anyone realizing that anything actually HAS the integrity they claim they can give your fighting.

 

[Sinister]

I have been playing a4ound with some of the concepts you mentioned in the video but that really put the pieces together and added several chapters TBH

What about length of the cord? I have been playing around with different lengths and related to my skill level I find that a shorter length is easier for me to put out higher volume because of faster returns the control of the ball path is easier. Comparing to a longer length I find I can get a full punch length going but it gets much harder to put up a higher volume of punches and control it (also the longer lengths tend to have the reballdo smacking me in the nuts occasionally)

Yeah I been hit in the balls quite often experimenting with length. But I do like some clack. Too short and you get hit in the eye and nose a lot.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

Real old school guys aren't, fakers are because they don't want anyone realizing that anything actually HAS the integrity they claim they can give your fighting.

Lol didn't Eddie Futch use drills. Its pretty funny to think that some trainers would critique methods that such a legendary trainer would also use.

 

[zapataxiv]

Yeah I been hit in the balls quite often experimenting with length. But I do like some clack. Too short and you get hit in the eye and nose a lot.

Yea That happens...

Spoiler

a lot

 

[Sinister]

So when I first started training people I recall having Floyd Sr. give one of my guys a lesson when he was still around. Whenever Mike (McCallum) is around the gym, I always ask for his input in enforcing what my students are learning. Bjorn from Iceland comes over once or twice a year to help out with training. In other words, I'm not an insecure trainer who tries to act like what I know is the be-all end-all of Boxing who will have a heart attack if my fighters get input from anywhere else. This is exhibited with Lyte Burly being here:



Daijon getting a lesson from Billy Briscoe:



And then this past Saturday another boxing friend was in town from L.A. This man was taught the peek-a-boo system from Kevin Rooney. I don't profess to know this system, though I have seen it in-person on a few occasions, so I saw this as an opportunity to let one of my fighters experience who I felt it might benefit:



For Historical context...that ring is this ring:

 

[Sano]

So when I first started training people I recall having Floyd Sr. give one of my guys a lesson when he was still around. Whenever Mike (McCallum) is around the gym, I always ask for his input in enforcing what my students are learning. Bjorn from Iceland comes over once or twice a year to help out with training. In other words, I'm not an insecure trainer who tries to act like what I know is the be-all end-all of Boxing who will have a heart attack if my fighters get input from anywhere else. This is exhibited with Lyte Burly being here:



Daijon getting a lesson from Billy Briscoe:



And then this past Saturday another boxing friend was in town from L.A. This man was taught the peek-a-boo system from Kevin Rooney. I don't profess to know this system, though I have seen it in-person on a few occasions, so I saw this as an opportunity to let one of my fighters experience who I felt it might benefit:



For Historical context...that ring is this ring:

Is that Cyclone Mike practicing the peak-a-boo?

 

[Sinister]

Yes

 

[Sano]

Yes

Nice. I would think that he has a pretty good disposition and build to implement some of the things successfully. How do you like that style for him? Or at least aspects of it.

 

[giancana]

It would be awesome, if you could elaborate to Sano's question with regards to the following aspects:

-stance: the Stance you teach is weight on rear leg,lead heel up while in the peekaboo style it's more centered and both feet flat on the ground ?(or rear Heel up?and front foot heavy?)

-footwork, peekaboo seems to me springing from a flat footed stance while you teach small shuffling steps?

-If using the tile drill to slip punches with a high guard instead of the lower back in a pendulum fashion, it is a different slipping trajectory,can you comment on that please?
Furthermore with the peekaboo slipping how does it impact leverage for punches as the pelvic bowl is tiled to one side and you talked about not letting "spilll the water out of the pelvic bowl"?

Also D'Amato was about constant headmovement and SPEED,
the D'Amato way of slipping has more range of motion then the tile exercise,slipping all the way outside of the opponent's schoulder, while you wrote in another thread:
"

Also, I like the maneuvers to be small and subtle. So much so that it plays with an opponent's eyes. Big movements can be followed easier as they travel greater distances. Whereas if there's a lot of small and subtle changes, an opponent may not be able to tell that you changed elevation and range dramatically enough that they'd miss. So you can get them to swing, they miss by a little, and you're in position to hit.

To be fair 5 inches can be a lot of space, think about how little we want a punch to miss by and why.

If you're a "racer" it means that in response to anything you see, you're going to try and beat the motion just AFTER you see it. This isn't always bad, but it is very predictable and allows you to be timed. Defensive action is more about rhythm and timing.

"
Can you comment on that?

I think a problem is that the style is only associated with mike tyson and people forget about jose torres and floyd patterson.

PS: some good footage :

 

[Sinister]

^I'll reply to all that later. In the meantime, I neglected to mention another aspect of how I groom my fighters. They all PAID this man for the lessons. They're not groomed to expect preferential treatment for free just because a guy is my friend. He did the work, he should be paid for it. Also, here's an old video with he and Rooney back in the Catskills Gym:

 

[Sinister]

It would be awesome, if you could elaborate to Sano's question with regards to the following aspects:

-stance: the Stance you teach is weight on rear leg,lead heel up while in the peekaboo style it's more centered and both feet flat on the ground ?(or rear Heel up?and front foot heavy?)

-footwork, peekaboo seems to me springing from a flat footed stance while you teach small shuffling steps?

-If using the tile drill to slip punches with a high guard instead of the lower back in a pendulum fashion, it is a different slipping trajectory,can you comment on that please?
Furthermore with the peekaboo slipping how does it impact leverage for punches as the pelvic bowl is tiled to one side and you talked about not letting "spilll the water out of the pelvic bowl"?

Also D'Amato was about constant headmovement and SPEED,
the D'Amato way of slipping has more range of motion then the tile exercise,slipping all the way outside of the opponent's schoulder, while you wrote in another thread:
"

Also, I like the maneuvers to be small and subtle. So much so that it plays with an opponent's eyes. Big movements can be followed easier as they travel greater distances. Whereas if there's a lot of small and subtle changes, an opponent may not be able to tell that you changed elevation and range dramatically enough that they'd miss. So you can get them to swing, they miss by a little, and you're in position to hit.

To be fair 5 inches can be a lot of space, think about how little we want a punch to miss by and why.

If you're a "racer" it means that in response to anything you see, you're going to try and beat the motion just AFTER you see it. This isn't always bad, but it is very predictable and allows you to be timed. Defensive action is more about rhythm and timing.

"
Can you comment on that?

I think a problem is that the style is only associated with mike tyson and people forget about jose torres and floyd patterson.

PS: some good footage :

Stance - From what I've seen the beginning position isn't all that important in the peek-a-boo system. There's some very very basic elements, but it's about the dynamic motions, not the static positions.

Footwork - Yes they don't make much emphasis on lifting the heels except to punch. Their motions seem designed specifically to get to a flanking position as quickly as possible.

Slipping - My students used their normal style of slipping and Qurane didn't tell them not to. This leads me to believe that just making any slip was sufficient (or he neglected it). But that would explain how most of the peek-a-boo stylists ended up using side to side motions that moved the lumbar, and leaned into punches slightly. Their athleticism is what kept them upright. Qurane actually instructed punches pretty well, so I think if you don't over-commit, the punches have some power.

Cyclone Mike's feedback of doing that session (which was actually a good 45 minutes) was to first state how exhausting it is. He said everything had to be full speed, full power, each motion is an explosive motion. So basically I came to the conclusion that beyond Jose Torres, this system was streamlined specifically for certain types of bodies. Mike actually fit well with it, had he learned this early on he could have been very very good at it.

Torres is a much more practical version that nearly anyone can learn.

 

[zapataxiv]

Footwork - Yes they don't make much emphasis on lifting the heels except to punch. Their motions seem designed specifically to get to a flanking position as quickly as possible.

Torres is a much more practical version that nearly anyone can learn.

Flanking in this case just means flanking right? as in getting to the side of the opponent when they do not expect it and to attack from there or just taking a blind side?

for example like in the footage Mike was pivot out to the side double body rips and then pivot back to starting position which appeared to be mid range or so for Mike?

Also what kind of drills for flanking do you like? i have found that from practicing the pivot the way you taught it has helped me a lot to get a really smooth pivot that i can flank from. But this one of the beauty attacks i want to perfect is the pivot out to the side and then hit with the lead uppercut to the liver orthodox or just blast the body. Lloyd Marshall the guy in my AV from his vids i saw on YT he was amazing with his pivots and flanking it was so smooth how do i work on that?

 

[giancana]

Thanks for taking the time to anwer my questions

 

[Koondrecht]

It would be awesome, if you could elaborate to Sano's question with regards to the following aspects:

-stance: the Stance you teach is weight on rear leg,lead heel up while in the peekaboo style it's more centered and both feet flat on the ground ?(or rear Heel up?and front foot heavy?)

-footwork, peekaboo seems to me springing from a flat footed stance while you teach small shuffling steps?

-If using the tile drill to slip punches with a high guard instead of the lower back in a pendulum fashion, it is a different slipping trajectory,can you comment on that please?
Furthermore with the peekaboo slipping how does it impact leverage for punches as the pelvic bowl is tiled to one side and you talked about not letting "spilll the water out of the pelvic bowl"?

Also D'Amato was about constant headmovement and SPEED,
the D'Amato way of slipping has more range of motion then the tile exercise,slipping all the way outside of the opponent's schoulder, while you wrote in another thread:
"

Also, I like the maneuvers to be small and subtle. So much so that it plays with an opponent's eyes. Big movements can be followed easier as they travel greater distances. Whereas if there's a lot of small and subtle changes, an opponent may not be able to tell that you changed elevation and range dramatically enough that they'd miss. So you can get them to swing, they miss by a little, and you're in position to hit.

To be fair 5 inches can be a lot of space, think about how little we want a punch to miss by and why.

If you're a "racer" it means that in response to anything you see, you're going to try and beat the motion just AFTER you see it. This isn't always bad, but it is very predictable and allows you to be timed. Defensive action is more about rhythm and timing.

"
Can you comment on that?

I think a problem is that the style is only associated with mike tyson and people forget about jose torres and floyd patterson.

PS: some good footage :

Man, the power and speed of Mike,t hing of beauty in my opinion. And Sinister, just read the whole thread. It's awesome I stay following.

 

[Koondrecht]

@Sinister Do you think if Tyson kept his head a little bit straight and kept training with Rooney that he would have been far better?

 

[Sinister]

Yes

 

[facePuncher7]

Yes

Are you Luis Monda?

 

[Sinister]

Yes

 

[ARIZE]

Can I get 5000 bucks? (sorry)