What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

[Sinister]

These two are preparing for their first fights, hopefully next Saturday in St. George Utah:



This was from today, 3 of my guys working out with my 3 Norwegians. Their Coach from back home is visiting, he's the guy in the blue:

 

[Sinister]

Well that makes me think of a couple things. Do you think people try to give themselves too much water or supplement the right kind of water with run off that they find on the internet or not from good sources. A good example of this Can be seen on this forum. Every few months there seems to be homegro n boxing experts that pop up and try and fight all the established traditions or knowledge for things they self taught over the internet.

Also for the dark. Is a part of that sparring? And assessment?
What about fostering growth with a program. I really liked what I saw from you as it felt like progress was noticeable and linear but how do you foster things like that in your personal time or when you are away from a good coach? Is it just a matter of searching your notes mental and physical and just recreating and redoing the exercises you have seen?

I said this to some of my students last week: The bulk of athletes don't actually want to be the best at what they're doing. If they did, they'd behave in a way that suggests so. They'd work not only for it, but towards it. They'd feel everything every average fighter feels, and they'd keep going. Rather, most athletes just want affirmation. They want to be told that they're alright, good enough, as they are. I feel like many people looking for internet "feedback" are looking for affirmation. But affirmation is like heroin for athletes, you can never get enough of it and the moment you THINK you're getting enough of it, it's killing you.

So yes, too much "seeking of affirmation" disguised as "quest for knowledge." People true to the quest take action. You physically made the pilgrimage here and went away changed. That's going the distance needed. If I had $10 for every person who told me they were going to do that, I'd have significantly less financial woes.

Honesty is the opposite of that affirmation. So the darkness is not sparring, sparring is soil. Where you plant the seed. Sparring is more like tilling the soil. Seems chaotic and disruptive, but makes for a stronger plant. See when the aforementioned athletes consistently don't get the affirmation they desire, they wither and die. They quit. They lose hope. Or the opposite, they become delusional in how bent they are on success, and either they'll change everything too much or not at all. This happens when they can't handle the honesty needed for them to mature. I call these guys Peter Pans. They want to remain boys forever, having fun, playing, NOT facing the darkness unless they feel either it won't harm them, or while denying it's killing them. Too much polarization. The ones who will mature understand what they're in, and want to know what they can do to last as long as they can, while at the same time not taking their own safety for granted.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Well that makes me think of a couple things. Do you think people try to give themselves too much water or supplement the right kind of water with run off that they find on the internet or not from good sources. A good example of this Can be seen on this forum. Every few months there seems to be homegro n boxing experts that pop up and try and fight all the established traditions or knowledge for things they self taught over the internet.

Also for the dark. Is a part of that sparring? And assessment?
What about fostering growth with a program. I really liked what I saw from you as it felt like progress was noticeable and linear but how do you foster things like that in your personal time or when you are away from a good coach? Is it just a matter of searching your notes mental and physical and just recreating and redoing the exercises you have seen?

The benevidez brothers were in Portland for a bit bc it’s where their S&C coach lives. Their dad shopped around a bunch of gyms to use as a home base and eventually settled at ours. Sr. Was kind enough to allow me To shadow him while he trained his sons (he himself spent years working under Freddie roach and Abel Sanchez).

I got to watch the youngest world champion ever sit there and work on his jab for 35 minutes straight. Mechanics, range, and timing. Boring, methodical work. This is a man who isn’t trying to get his hands on some extra water or complaining because he wants his coach to reinvent the wheel for HIM because HE is bored with the basics. That is what it takes, IMO. a dedication to the slow, monotonous, arduous process
Of purposeful development.

 

[Which Doctor]

Well then I guess changing it the question to how to be a good student. How to make good connections and have purposeful trainig sessions.
I think we have all heard the saying “10000 hours or 10000 repetitions to master something.” But I have been learning about teaching methodology and recent information about neuroplasticity says that your brain needs to be engaged properly while you are engaging in these movements or practices otherwise the time is wasted.
Not asking for a key to the vault, but do you have any basic suggestions for students on how to stay in a engaging well motivated place while training with a coach or doing practice on their own?

I'm no expert like Sinister, but it's always seemed to me that finding and maintaining that "engaging, well motivated place" is part and parcel of the training and subsequent results of focus and the exercise of will over the long term. I've never seen a guy who could train and stayed focused without practicing and mastering it. Sure, you see guys who come into the gym and have a knack, but they practiced that shit in some form as a youngster, and not necesarily in a training environment. A healthy part of the 10,000 formula is having the gumption and focus to last through the 10,000.

 

[Sinister]

The benevidez brothers were in Portland for a bit bc it’s where their S&C coach lives. Their dad shopped around a bunch of gyms to use as a home base and eventually settled at ours. Sr. Was kind enough to allow me To shadow him while he trained his sons (he himself spent years working under Freddie roach and Abel Sanchez).

I got to watch the youngest world champion ever sit there and work on his jab for 35 minutes straight. Mechanics, range, and timing. Boring, methodical work. This is a man who isn’t trying to get his hands on some extra water or complaining because he wants his coach to reinvent the wheel for HIM because HE is bored with the basics. That is what it takes, IMO. a dedication to the slow, monotonous, arduous process
Of purposeful development.

Yeah but they fired our guy J-Flash as a sparring partner for Jose because he was "too professional" ...not sure what that even means but what it smells like is they didn't want Jose's confidence ruined. He's fighting Terrance fuckin' Crawford. He should be in with guys like J-Flash and Daijon until he's kicking the fuck out of them

 

[DoctorTaco]

Yeah but they fired our guy J-Flash as a sparring partner for Jose because he was "too professional" ...not sure what that even means but what it smells like is they didn't want Jose's confidence ruined. He's fighting Terrance fuckin' Crawford. He should be in with guys like J-Flash and Daijon until he's kicking the fuck out of them

thats a tough fight, Too much too soon I think. J-flash would be great work for (getting ready for) Crawford, but what do I know.

 

[Sinister]

Their behavior suggesta that they know Jose can't win it.

 

[zapataxiv]

The benevidez brothers were in Portland for a bit bc it’s where their S&C coach lives. Their dad shopped around a bunch of gyms to use as a home base and eventually settled at ours. Sr. Was kind enough to allow me To shadow him while he trained his sons (he himself spent years working under Freddie roach and Abel Sanchez).

I got to watch the youngest world champion ever sit there and work on his jab for 35 minutes straight. Mechanics, range, and timing. Boring, methodical work. This is a man who isn’t trying to get his hands on some extra water or complaining because he wants his coach to reinvent the wheel for HIM because HE is bored with the basics. That is what it takes, IMO. a dedication to the slow, monotonous, arduous process
Of purposeful development.

Thanks that is good stuff

I'm no expert like Sinister, but it's always seemed to me that finding and maintaining that "engaging, well motivated place" is part and parcel of the training and subsequent results of focus and the exercise of will over the long term. I've never seen a guy who could train and stayed focused without practicing and mastering it. Sure, you see guys who come into the gym and have a knack, but they practiced that shit in some form as a youngster, and not necesarily in a training environment. A healthy part of the 10,000 formula is having the gumption and focus to last through the 10,000.

Yes I agree and what you are talking about is motivation, it is something I have been interested in how much a coach and student is responsible for bringing to the table. Also the importance of autonomy in a student.

 

[Sinister]

I, personally, do not invest in motivation. Motivation is a mood, and I believe that as Dan Millman says, moods are the weather of the spirit. In other words you could feel motivated right this second, not motivated 5 minutes from now. Moods are perfectly natural, so NOT feeling motivated is also perfectly natural.

I prefer to foster discipline. But most people don't understand how discipline actually works. Almost every kid I've ever met describes "discipline" with a negative connotation, as in, not getting to do the things you actually WANT to do. Or having to do the things you don't really want to do right now. But that's not what discipline is, discipline is nothing more than realizing that you don't need to feel good about a thing to do it. You can do the thing, and then feel good after because you did it. But requiring "feeling good" to do the thing assures that you're only going to do a small percentage of shit you're actually capable of. Add discipline, and that percentage quadruples.

 

[Which Doctor]

I, personally, do not invest in motivation. Motivation is a mood, and I believe that as Dan Millman says, moods are the weather of the spirit. In other words you could feel motivated right this second, not motivated 5 minutes from now. Moods are perfectly natural, so NOT feeling motivated is also perfectly natural.

I prefer to foster discipline. But most people don't understand how discipline actually works. Almost every kid I've ever met describes "discipline" with a negative connotation, as in, not getting to do the things you actually WANT to do. Or having to do the things you don't really want to do right now. But that's not what discipline is, discipline is nothing more than realizing that you don't need to feel good about a thing to do it. You can do the thing, and then feel good after because you did it. But requiring "feeling good" to do the thing assures that you're only going to do a small percentage of shit you're actually capable of. Add discipline, and that percentage quadruples.

A better way to illustrate the point I was trying to get at.

 

[zapataxiv]

I, personally, do not invest in motivation. Motivation is a mood, and I believe that as Dan Millman says, moods are the weather of the spirit. In other words you could feel motivated right this second, not motivated 5 minutes from now. Moods are perfectly natural, so NOT feeling motivated is also perfectly natural.

I prefer to foster discipline. But most people don't understand how discipline actually works. Almost every kid I've ever met describes "discipline" with a negative connotation, as in, not getting to do the things you actually WANT to do. Or having to do the things you don't really want to do right now. But that's not what discipline is, discipline is nothing more than realizing that you don't need to feel good about a thing to do it. You can do the thing, and then feel good after because you did it. But requiring "feeling good" to do the thing assures that you're only going to do a small percentage of shit you're actually capable of. Add discipline, and that percentage quadruples.

Well than not to be a “cheeky cunt” what about motivating people to be disciplined? Certainly there is responsibility on both the coach and students parts. That is a bit of a retread though because as you said if the coach is doing the proper nurturing the motivation should be in the growth the student is experiencing. That being said it is fairly long distance vision especially for younger people.

Also nice video was that Bjorn in the blue? So he is coaching now? Pure boxing or striking/MMA?

I also wanted to ask you about levels. For example in teaching english there is a CEFR standard where you can tell some basic level attributes answering some “I can do” questions related to English. Is there an equivalent for boxing? I could see that helping a lot in focusing practice for newer guys. While I am sure it would become much more intricate and personalized the higher the level of the student but what going from a base beginner to an advanced beginner?

 

[Koondrecht]

I, personally, do not invest in motivation. Motivation is a mood, and I believe that as Dan Millman says, moods are the weather of the spirit. In other words you could feel motivated right this second, not motivated 5 minutes from now. Moods are perfectly natural, so NOT feeling motivated is also perfectly natural.

I prefer to foster discipline. But most people don't understand how discipline actually works. Almost every kid I've ever met describes "discipline" with a negative connotation, as in, not getting to do the things you actually WANT to do. Or having to do the things you don't really want to do right now. But that's not what discipline is, discipline is nothing more than realizing that you don't need to feel good about a thing to do it. You can do the thing, and then feel good after because you did it. But requiring "feeling good" to do the thing assures that you're only going to do a small percentage of shit you're actually capable of. Add discipline, and that percentage quadruples.

Cus has a couple of quotes just like this. Same about being professional. You ever read the book about Cus @Sinister ?

 

[Sinister]

Can't say as I have

 

[Sinister]

Well than not to be a “cheeky cunt” what about motivating people to be disciplined? Certainly there is responsibility on both the coach and students parts. That is a bit of a retread though because as you said if the coach is doing the proper nurturing the motivation should be in the growth the student is experiencing. That being said it is fairly long distance vision especially for younger people.

Also nice video was that Bjorn in the blue? So he is coaching now? Pure boxing or striking/MMA?

I also wanted to ask you about levels. For example in teaching english there is a CEFR standard where you can tell some basic level attributes answering some “I can do” questions related to English. Is there an equivalent for boxing? I could see that helping a lot in focusing practice for newer guys. While I am sure it would become much more intricate and personalized the higher the level of the student but what going from a base beginner to an advanced beginner?

Being disciplined has to be habitual. People can make a habit out of not only smoking crack, but looking for and/or stealing the money to do so. There's no true motivation there. It's just a habit. But the process of becoming disciplined tends to rest solely on how much the student desires to mature. When you come to each crossroads in life, the main two choices are "grow up" and "remain child." You have to consistently CHOOSE the "grow up" option.

By guy in blue I meant the old guy on the side of the ring, not anyone doing the drills.

The levels in my program are dictated by what drills they can do and to what end. The most advanced students can do the drills all the way until there is no real form to them. Meaning they're just "play boxing" but executing specific moves in response to specific threats. But they can go all the way back to the beginning versions to help out a newb

 

[zapataxiv]

O

Being disciplined has to be habitual. People can make a habit out of not only smoking crack, but looking for and/or stealing the money to do so. There's no true motivation there. It's just a habit. But the process of becoming disciplined tends to rest solely on how much the student desires to mature. When you come to each crossroads in life, the main two choices are "grow up" and "remain child." You have to consistently CHOOSE the "grow up" option.

By guy in blue I meant the old guy on the side of the ring, not anyone doing the drills.

The levels in my program are dictated by what drills they can do and to what end. The most advanced students can do the drills all the way until there is no real form to them. Meaning they're just "play boxing" but executing specific moves in response to specific threats. But they can go all the way back to the beginning versions to help out a newb

okay thanks for the responses

 

[Phlog]

I, personally, do not invest in motivation. Motivation is a mood, and I believe that as Dan Millman says, moods are the weather of the spirit. In other words you could feel motivated right this second, not motivated 5 minutes from now. Moods are perfectly natural, so NOT feeling motivated is also perfectly natural.

I prefer to foster discipline. But most people don't understand how discipline actually works. Almost every kid I've ever met describes "discipline" with a negative connotation, as in, not getting to do the things you actually WANT to do. Or having to do the things you don't really want to do right now. But that's not what discipline is, discipline is nothing more than realizing that you don't need to feel good about a thing to do it. You can do the thing, and then feel good after because you did it. But requiring "feeling good" to do the thing assures that you're only going to do a small percentage of shit you're actually capable of. Add discipline, and that percentage quadruples.

Exactly. I tell people I train with that it ain't about being motivated, you don't need to get psyched up to brush your teeth, you just do it because it has to be done. Training is like that.

I'm a big fan of Nikes slogan Just Do It. It says it all.

 

[Koondrecht]

Can't say as I have

Will look the quote up for you, book is called '' Iron Ambition '' latest book by Tyson mostly about Cus.

 

[Sinister]

Daijon fought last night at the Eastern Qualifiers in Tennessee:

 

[listrahtes]

I, personally, do not invest in motivation. Motivation is a mood, and I believe that as Dan Millman says, moods are the weather of the spirit. In other words you could feel motivated right this second, not motivated 5 minutes from now. Moods are perfectly natural, so NOT feeling motivated is also perfectly natural.

Thats a great insight.

Talking with kids about this topic is often mindblowing for myself in how inadequate most parents educate their children on this mabye most important aspect of growing up nowadays. Most go with "if you have instant fun do it, if not stop". Leads to undeveloped adults who cant deal with pressure at all.

My son gets talked down regularly from adults & friends because he is disciplined in training and even feels bad about it sometimes because of that.

 

[Sinister]

Thats a great insight.

Talking with kids about this topic is often mindblowing for myself in how inadequate most parents educate their children on this mabye most important aspect of growing up nowadays. Most go with "if you have instant fun do it, if not stop". Leads to undeveloped adults who cant deal with pressure at all.

My son gets talked down regularly from adults & friends because he is disciplined in training and even feels bad about it sometimes because of that.

There's this movie I like, Vigo Mortensen plays a guy who educates his own kids and they live in the wilderness. His wife's Sister thinks he's being too rough and it's harming the children: