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What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Sinister, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    First things first, here's a HL video that was made recently with fighters whom either Dadi and I train directly, or have consulted with us on technique:



    And here's one just profiling our Company and some of the fighters/lifters we've helped with. Everyone in the video is either trained by us, or one of us has done their nutritional plans for their competitions:



    And for reference's sake. This is an old promo video for one of the Icelandic Gyms:



    Here's a couple others:





    More to come in a few moments...
     
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  2. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Recently my two guys Daijon and Jonathan sparred with Samuel Vargas, who is 23-2-1 as a Pro and trains with Billy Briscoe. Billy worked Daijon for a couple rounds to give him a bit of the Philadelphia knowledge:

     
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  3. Samuel Reynoso Orange Belt

    Samuel Reynoso
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    Ive been pretty obsessed with fixing my forward shoulders for the last 4-5 months. I've probably done a hundred different exercises. Whatever you do the key is to do it perfectly.

    One thing I try to do is keep my collarbone up so my shoulders hang behind me. But I also keep my rib cage down. It's like you use the abs over the lower ribs to lock down the bottome of the t-spine, and you use the muscles of the back to extend the upper t-spine.
     
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  4. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    A few of my guys fought at the recent Golden Gloves tournament in Nevada. We didn't do as well as I'd hoped, but about as well as I'd expected being as my guys are still inexperienced despite how they look. We just wanted to get our first tournament out of the way. But the prep was pretty fun. Here's a couple of the sparring videos...

    This one is interesting because I have two of my bigger fighters (145 and 160), but I threw in Bleu who is 132 because he has enough power to keep them honest, and can defend himself well. At first, though, Bleu tries to baby them to keep the bigger guys from teeing off on him. When I get him to stop that, things get very fun:



    And yes the one with the white gloves and headgear is new with me. So he doesn't quite look like one of my guys yet.

    Here's Daijon doin' his thang:



    Here's Bleu and another of my newer guys. Not new to boxing but new with me, I call him my little Marquez:



    And here's a fun long one with my little Marquez, and the two bigger fighters:

     
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  5. Kenjamito Orange Belt

    Kenjamito
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    Nice to see that Daijon is still going strong in the gym. I had to get familiar with who Billy Briscoe is and read a nice writeup on him on Fighthype. Didn't know he helped build one of my favorite guys to watch, Gabe Rosado.

    I'm late with this, but congrats, this is great news! The hell with a pilgrimage, I need to relocate, lol.
     
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  6. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Yes, my fighters get customized warm-up routines to deal with their physiological issues. They'll get remedial help if they have a really bad problem. As for exercises, basically for upper-body posture, if the shoulders are too far forward...pulling motions are what you're looking for. As well as consciously adjusting your walking, sitting, standing posture as Sam says above. I'd also recommend sleeping without a pillow. Your body will fit into the more natural shoulder position if you lay on your back with no pillow.

    Also, fixing rotation isn't just about which way they point. It's CAN you rotate in the other direction to an optimal degree without having to force it? That's the question to ask with regards to sports and also over all physical health (which many modern people take for granted, but if you're duck-footed and hunch-backed, your health suffers over all).
     
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  7. Reyesnuthugr belt

    Reyesnuthugr
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    Congratulations on your acquisition of a mini-marquez. He seems to be a good addition to the sparring pool, as most of your guys seem to be outside fighters, with the ones closest to being comfortable (or preferring) inside fighting being some pressure/swarmers [only from what I've seen and I haven't seen all your vids].

    Minimarquez kinda likes to get in the pocket a little to throw combos and isn't afraid to take a little tap here and there to get in there. It also looks like he puts just a little more balance/time towards the front foot (but not over/past the knee) than the others, or is that just me?

    Also, glad to see a resurgence of Da Tooth. I remember him. His style is kinda fun. He's the type that could draw a crowd with his style if he started putting together a record. He's probably got some technical faults that bother you though. He could be a crowd pleaser, though, that's for sure

    Also nice to see Mustard at work. He seemed to have trouble when a guy gets close (like Da Tooth as well). I really don't know what would work for him to back a guy off (that other guy just kept coming forward, eating Daijon combos n all sometimes).

    Daijon seems to fight/spar as if the other guy is going to react just like he would in a situation-- back off and regroup after getting hit once or so, but it's often not like that and he must be frustrated. But when he did throw combos, it didn't necessarily set the momentum in his favor, it seemed. Perhaps he could work to actually calculate to physically unbalance the opponent with punch sequences coming off angles (then his opponent physically couldn't come forward, might even fall)? I dunno- that's all I can think of

    I still need to see some of the vids. Keep up the good work!
     
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  8. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
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    My shoulders love the idea of using target pads instead of focus mitts
     
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  9. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Today Daijon sparred with Sam Eggington, who as you can see by the record, is the current British Welterweight Champion. Guy is a huge Welterweight, strong as an ox, and comes forward no matter what. But we put in a few good rounds with him. So much so that we got invited to his Camp in England for his bout in March.
     
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  10. apizur** Aggressive Finesse.

    apizur**
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    Fun. I'm gonna go get some work now.
     
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  11. right hand lead Green Belt

    right hand lead
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    Hahaha agreed ^^

    Sinister, do you have any experience using those? If so how do you like them??
     
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  12. Kenjamito Orange Belt

    Kenjamito
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    Wow!! Congrats! Incredible how fast you brought him up, I remember when he had no amateur fights just a couple years ago and now he's accomplished and getting invited to the British Champ's camp, looking to make his pro debut next summer. That's quite a story. I could tell he was athletic, nice to see he's shown to put in that work and take advantage of all your knowledge. Seems like you two have the perfect formula brewing. Very happy news, very happy for you both!
     
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  13. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Thanks for the feedback, and good eye.

    Bandito needs refinement. Kid is actually a mess, nowhere near where he could be. The sparring session with Bleu tells the tale. Even though he got the better of it due to his poise, he's ONLY comfortable all the way in, or all the way out. Middle-distance Bleu got the better of most of the exchanges, and he's a kid with a fraction of the experience Bandito has. Every Mexican trainer he's ever had has turned him into a brawler. They all wanted him going in, going in, going in. That's how he developed the ability to take a hit, but he prefers not to. Much like Marquez, he prefers for you to fuck up before he throws. A natural counter-puncher. I'm going to refine his positioning, because yes he does lead with his head and is too front-foot heavy. I intend to give him middle-distance game, and enable his ability to go forward skillfully. He is NASTY on the inside, though.

    Joey "Da Tooth" is also in need of much refinement, but in different ways. His upper-body positioning isn't bad at all, but his upper and lower body don't always cooperate with each other. He'll still be fan friendly when I'm done with him, but he won't be as much of a liability to himself when he decides to force engagements.

    About Daijon, if you recall the Fixing the problems thread, I'd mentioned his maturity as a person, as well as a fighter. This is at the heart of the flaws you see. He's one of the most difficult ones to keep in-mind his youth in the Sport. 18 years old, 6 fights, just over a year in. The sparring partner there doesn't have many more fights, but he's been around the Gyms a few years. Daijon tends to do enough to get by, and hope it turns itself into more. He can fight inside pretty well, but he gets intimidated by bigger guys who seem to take his punches well. He's strong as a horse, but has very little faith in it.

    Everything I'm doing with him is based mostly on rhythm, learning to set a pace, make the opponent "dance" with him, then breaking the rhythm when he chooses. That will turn into the opponent always being a step behind or off-balance. Give that kid that kind of advantage and he won't get beaten often. But he has a lot of growing up to do to fully understand it all.
     
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  14. Steve08 American Fedor Belt

    Steve08
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    I can get a round trip ticket to Vegas for $200-300... that's not bad...

    I'll come out some day. Not sure when, but I will. I owe it to myself.
     
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  15. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    He can hardly believe it himself, he called me a bit late last night to ask: "Did that REALLY happen? Were they serious about that?" Barry Hearn, who is the head of Matchroom Boxing in the U.K. made a point to say he was impressed. I told Daijon a guy like that doesn't need to make him feel better about himself, if he makes a compliment, he means it.
     
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  16. Cyclone Mike Amateur Fighter

    Cyclone Mike
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    You say that like it's a bad thing! Or is it?
     
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  17. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Less impact but more speed. They also wear out much quicker than mitts, but they're cheaper. Heaven on shoulders and elbows, though.
     
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  18. PivotPunch Red Belt

    PivotPunch
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    Thanks yeah I can "force" myself into decent posture and i try it's sometimes just a bit tiring and I unsconsciously slip back into my old habits

    Thanks yes I'll try sleeping without a pillow I once tried it before it#s jsut really uncomfortable but I should do it at least sometimes

    I can rotate internally ok-ish. When i first started to "box" a few years ago my best punch was a straight right power wise but because of my external rotation and possibly I balme TKD as well I threw semi arm punches. Like I didn't only use the arm and put my hip into it but my knees stayed externally rotated and I could only put as much hip into it as the range of motion allwoed without rotating the rear foot and obviously I couldn't push off the back leg a lot.

    Nowaday I think that my straight right is mechanically my best power punch either that or my left hook.
    But the issue is with my right hook. ot an overhand but a clean right hook that comes from the side.

    I lose balance often when I throw it. With the left hook my back leg stands firm and I can rotate all I want I don#t lose balance and the force gets properly moved to my right.

    But with the right hook I often lose balance when I throw it into the air. When i throw it forward and not to my left as an overhand I'm fine as it travels the same path as a straight right but the right hooks throws me off balance and i often end up having to do a small step with my ead foot and rotate it externally a little bit to compensatelack o balance and range of motion.

    And congrats on your guy sparring with Eggington. And out of curiosity I have to ask. Do you sometimes worry about sending your guys to other gyms and having trainers you don't know fuck with their style and technique?

    No idea who Eggington's trainer is so I'm not saying that it's directly related to that but I would feel weird to have my main pupil if you will go away for a few weeks and do everything different and in the worst case scenario worse.
     
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  19. Reyesnuthugr belt

    Reyesnuthugr
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    It's not really wrong for a guy to be an "out-boxer" or to prefer the outside. But it's also a beneficial thing to have a kind of diversity/variety of styles/specialists when sparring. Don't you agree? That way when you encounter a guy with that style in a comp, you'd be more familiar and ready for him

    Now they've got at least one talented inside guy, and that's gonna make sparring more flavorful and interesting
     
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  20. PivotPunch Red Belt

    PivotPunch
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    Regarding chin position. Is Daijon's chin tucked enough here? I wonder because let's say Hopkins for example has his chin tucked extremely deep compared to Daijon and training with that friend I often wonder if my chin is tucked enough.

    But also does it depend on the height of the opponent how deep you tuck it?

    Because speaking of angles if a punch comes from below and hits then it will lift your chin and head up more and brings it into a more unstable position but if it comes from above then it will not only more likely hit your forehead anyway but also regardless fo where it hits, press your chin down onto your chest in a stable position that let's you take punches better

    So does it depend on how tall your opponent is/stands compared to you? And also if your opponent is taller then you can't tuck the chin as deep anyway without losing the ability to look at your opponents head.
     
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  21. Kenjamito Orange Belt

    Kenjamito
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    You've got to love seeing your kid grow up in front of you like that, great stuff. Is he going to be able to go without it interfering with his golden gloves preparation?
     
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  22. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    In the first video, the HL, is that Truscek there at the end GnP'ing?
     
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  23. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Tough doing a different style than what you are used to with different pads and holder. Anyway, he's getting good work in and it's a good thing for sure. Nice of that Briscoe guy to help out!

    How was the sparring btw?
     
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  24. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Rear-hand hook is a very tricky punch to get. But there's a thread around here NAMED "The rear-hand hook" and in it, I posted videos of a pretty famous duck-footed guy going a very good one.

    Well, they offered me to go with him. But Daijon is a kid I don't worry about in-terms of that. It's hard to explain, but I built him. Everything he knows about feeling comfortable in the ring comes from me, and he understands how to edit information given by someone else. So he knows how to ask "what would Lu say about this shit this guy is saying?" And he knows my system well enough to be able to tell what would fit and what wouldn't. For a while he was getting off work VERY late and he was going to a 24hr Gym that has a boxing Gym attached to it, and lots of trainers approached him to give advice/seduce him because I wasn't there. He was always polite, but blew them off basically, until they learned he's loyal. Plus, he beat the fuck out of someone at Mayweather's Gym with John in his corner, and he wan his National Title also with John on his corner. And John and I corner opposite ways. So he knows how to function in there.

    It's definitely surreal. They went again today and Daijon did MUCH better than yesterday. Yesterday he was trading with Sam out of pride (look up Sam's fights, that's NOT the thing to do with a guy like him) and got slapped around a bit. Did 4 rounds. Today he did 4 with Sam and got hit 1/3 of what he did yesterday, then went two more with another Pro they brought just to help that dude out. This was a kid who was once jittery and panicky, who when JR would crack him to the body he'd look for a way out. Now he's boxing with World-rated guys and while still looking fairly Amateur, impressing eyes on him.

    A photographer got some shots of the work, when they're up I'll post them.
     
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  25. Cyclone Mike Amateur Fighter

    Cyclone Mike
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    True.
     
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  26. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    That was awesome. I really liked those small steps he wanted Daijon to make, and the little tips like stepping around and in vs around and out.
     
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  27. PivotPunch Red Belt

    PivotPunch
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    Thanks. Here the link if someone else is interested http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f11/rear-hand-hooking-1064181/

    One last thing because I'm kinda distracting from the purpose of this thread.

    Am I right under the assumption that the straight right hand is closer to the overhand right (or left if you are a southpaw) than the right hook?

    You say yourself in that thread the right hook is easier to land if you are longer as it's a short punch as it is and since it's useful to get around someone's guard.
    But the overhand wrongly often gets called a right hook or vice versa by many but it seems like it's the furthest thing from the truth.

    Now only hitting pads I noticed it that much. Having someone hold the pads sideways like you would for a left hook but the opposite direction suddenly makes it impossible to land an overhand properly (connecting with the knuckles and getting all your weight into it). The overhand comes more straight at the opponent and basically hits at the almost same angle as a straight right.

    And then I remembered because Im pretty sure I saw Tyson say how the straight right was his best punch and while he didn't throw it that often in fights I went through clips of him hitting pads or the bag and he really mostly threw straigh rights with his right hand not hooks (to the head at least) let alone overhands.
    So Tyson was trained to use straight rights and in fights he just did away with his patience a bit and threw overhands right away but what i mean with that is that they are in some spots interchangable.

    So a lot of text but basically the simple question; am i right that the overhand is closer to a straight than to a hook?

    because I really wonder I don't think there are many trainers who really teach an overhand maybe in MMA but how many real high level boxing trainers teach you how to throw an overhand right correctly?

    Most people throw it instinctively if they try to hit hard but they often lose balance and leave themselves open yet I have an easier time keeping my balance throwing an overhand than I have throwing a right hook and I just happen to be more comfortable throwing a straight right than a right hook.

    Even if we assume i have shit technique and cant box I still am at least relatively better and relatively comfortable throwing both straight rights and overhand rights but not right hooks
     
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  28. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    He's in both highlights, and yes. He's asked for our input with his game a bit and made fine use of it.
     
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  29. JeetKunDoGuy Orange Belt

    JeetKunDoGuy
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    I like that right hook, step left uppercut combo. Very good stuff!
     
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  30. barnowl Green Belt

    barnowl
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    Sinister, you have got a pretty distinct system you drill in to your guys. Even just form your forum threads, I can filter information through your approaches. Pretty sure anyone directly learning from you can run it through the filter and give you something pretty close to your actual opinion.
     
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  31. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Ha' cool. He is a tough SOB. I trained MMA with someone who fought him and have seen him live a few times. Very unorthodox for an MMA striker, but crafty, tough and hard to take down as well.
     
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  32. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Thanks. And yes, Briscoe breathed life back into Rosado's career after being smoked by Angulo. Daijon has a National Title, and our next aim is for Golden Gloves next year. Then Pro in the summer.

    Daijon's problem with chin-tucking is due to an exaggerated spinal curvature. It used to be much much worse, it's now (after two years+ of theraputic movements) to where if he's reminded, he CAN tuck it fairly comfortably, but his body still doesn't like the position. Similar to his bow-leggedness. This is why at times he seems to neglect rotating his hips/legs. But when Billy points it out, he CAN make the movement. He also has a touch of athletically-gifted laziness, his speed compensates for not being able to do these small things. But getting rid of these things is like pulling weeds. They always creep back in. Floyd Mayweather Jr. has a similar spinal curvature (it's hereditary) and this is why his chin seems up a lot, hes' also slightly bow-legged.

    The sparring was very good. Daijon and Jonathan are both well-regarded Amateurs, but Vargas could handle going 8 in a row with both of them. This kind of raised their eyebrows on how well World level fighters are conditioned. How relaxed they are in the ring. But it went good enough that Briscoe requested two more days of work out of them, which is a very good compliment for two Amateurs with not a ton of fights.
     
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  33. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Yes you're right, and you're also right in saying not many high-level boxing trainers teach overhands correctly. First you have to consider how many modern trainers don't teach posture-correct punching in the first place, then add in the overhand NOT being posture-correct, and you end up with this diving, leg-widening, hay-maker of an overhand. It shouldn't look like that, and if someone throws it that way and it lands, it's considered correct by default because they landed it.

    It's funny, though, I'd rate Tyson's straight right behind left hook, or uppercut with either hand.

    I'm having trouble figuring out what exactly you're meaning to say here.
     
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  34. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Yes indeed. The main thing we discussed and remotely worked on (since he's in Croatia, it was done through footage) is using his left hip as well as his right. He did improve that aspect of his game. And yes, tough. These Sports are built on the backs of guys like him who will fight almost anyone, almost anywhere.
     
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  35. PivotPunch Red Belt

    PivotPunch
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    This sounds a bit similar to me. did you have him to exercises? Like can you suggest anything?

    I have always had bad posture in the upperback and neck so a bit like Golovkin or maybe Joe Louis and internally rotated shoulders.

    It is better now as I try to be more upright when walking but I still tend to have bad posture when sitting longer or when sleeping.

    Also now that my shoulder is slowly getting closer to 100% I lift and do sports and box with that friend for fun and i try to keep a good posture in mind but it's still not perfect.
    It's one of the things I try to work on the most as I obviously won't get a great boxer by boxing by myself and a friend who never trained either but at least i try to teach myself good mechanics and posture.

    I also had my feet outwards a lot but I think I fixed that just my consciously making sure they point forward more so i think I'm naturally externally rotated
     
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  36. Discipulus Black Belt

    Discipulus
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    Ivica's recently put together a nice little win streak for himself. Here's his latest win, from back in November.

     
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  37. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Excellent. That's a great learning experience AND a confidence boost. Just have to keep working. Good luck with the team, we'll be watching.
     
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  38. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    Man, that poor guy.

    What's great about that fight is how deceptive Ivica was without really doing anything. A couple of little feints, he was so far on his right I'm sure the last thing the other guy expected was a high kick from the left.
     
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  39. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    Nice setup with the feints and lowkick! Good for him.
     
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  40. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    I think he fought again yesterday...or is fighting right now. Damn time zones.

    P.S. - Anyone else watch these?
     
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  41. Babba Purple Belt

    Babba
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    i watched a couple of the sparring ones. ure a great trainer sinister, lol all the stuff ure writing about them, analyzing each person. u have true passion for the game, i admire that a lot.

    i liked ur new addition, the one in white gloves. i think he has potential. and it looks like a thing u put into ur guys is a really straight annoying jab. very unorthodox movement too. kinda weird and hard to catch on the mid range and those little turns on the inside
     
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  42. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    Just started watching. That first video of Da Tooth really demonstrates why getting low is important. You're on him about it the whole time, and every time he straightens his legs he gets hit clean. When he bends his knees shots start missing, landing less flush and affecting him less. Really a good example of that principle in action. Thanks for sharing these, I'll probably have more to say later.
     
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  43. Sinister Doctor of Doom

    Sinister
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    I realized very quickly that teaching a guy how to fight is easy. Teaching them to BE better men is difficult. I like a challenge, so I'd rather engineer better men than just instruct them on how to hurt people.

    Their jabs are just the jabs I favor. What I'd call "correct" jabs. Some people consider it snobbish or elitist, but the way I see it the proof is in the pudding. Their jabs are difficult to defend even for each other, and they are used to seeing them.

    YES. Jonathan has the same problem. When he gets tired or has mental lapses in there, his legs straighten out. When that happens, he gets lit up.
     
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  44. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    Same thing happens to me, and the first thing I think when I lose an exchange is "were my knees bent...damnit".

    Watched the rest of that video. Man Bleu has some really nice defense. I love how he slips outside the cross, picks the jab with his right hand with a very minimal movement, gets a good bend in his knees when he's getting teed off on and just has great positioning overall. Doesn't look like he counters much though, seems like his defense is great but he rarely converts it to offense. Maybe that's just what you were saying with him not wanting to get into scraps with bigger guys. His right hand is tight though. I noticed he was throwing a lot of soft rights in the beginning and pivoting out, but started planting more and looking to land the hard right as he got into it. I'm a fan of his subtle steps to get his lead foot in position for that punch.

    Da Tooth makes good use of the hop step. I like how he uses it to get into position (both angle and range) for his left hand, as well as to disengage safely after he throws it. Or he'll step back to his left after throwing it to work an inside angle unless he's gonna stand there and continue his combination. It's nice to see that he's able to do a lot of different things after that punch. Plus you can see him literally do the tile exercise as he moves around, because of things like that him and Bleu really look like two of your guys.

    They all have fantastic jabs too. Difficult to see, stiff and powerful but without overcommitment, and they lead well into other punches. A lot of good footwork going on as well, it's nice to watch.

    Now on to the other three videos :icon_chee:icon_chee
     
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