What do you guys think of Wing Chun?

[SAAMAG]

Rent one then, post a video of your WC being used effectively in hard sparring vs. a competent MT or Boxer and I'll Paypal you the cost of the rental.

Can't get a better offer than that, and I'm sure we'll all keep an open mind.

Prove your point.

Don't have to prove my point to some Internet folks who doubt it's viability. I'm not running around saying that it's capable of holding it's own in it's entirety or that's it's better than X style, Im saying that it's a viable system for what it trains for. Again, proper tool for the job is the key here. There are many people out there that use wing chun succesfully in that context, some of whom I've already named.

Look up Alan Orr in you tube, perhaps Weng Chun as well to find them fighting in mma comps. Keep in mind that they also do things in addition to wing chun, and some of the WC is difficult to see even for some classical WC folks and the reason for that is that it's really supposed to be used more naturally as it deals with energy, using subtle movements and structure.

Again, my wc looks a little different, because I learned differently than them, and I don't try to use it throughout the entire fight, but rather only in the range that it's meant to work in.

However, next time I get a group of guys together I'll see what we can come up with and figure out what's needed to upload and all that. But like I said before, looking for the holy Grail in the form of video is the wrong mindset. You need to seek out someone who is good at it that you can FEEL the skill.

 

[Valentine Wolff]

The only difference is that I continue to use it in sparring successfully where you did not. I also understand fighting well enough to know that wing chun--while effective in its range--does not stay the entire fight since fights don't happen in a single range.

Perhaps that's where yours failed? You can't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail. Well you could--but then that'd be like you trying to use your wing chun without knowing how it works.

Your right, Wing Chun does have some great applications at a certain range. I even use several of them when I fight. But the fact is I do not see a way to apply the whole art to fighting in the sence that I can apply boxing to stand up, or wrestling to grappling. Its an art that suppliments my fighting, but doesnt hold up on its own.

For example. In my gym punches that we through back and forth as light jabs have more power than many of the wing chun strikes. Let alone when we really start batting each other. I see stars at least a few times every sparring session in boxing from the power of the blows. Youll never find that in wing chun.

I dont know if you know who Alan Orr is. Hes a great intructor from britain that primarily teaches wing chun and adapts it beautifully to MMA. Ive learned alot from him. But the way I see it, a bike will get you somewhere fast, but a car will get you there even faster. Thats why rank boxing over wing chun.

 

[Valentine Wolff]

I just read your last post about alan orr, sorry i didnt read it before i posted. I guess you do know him. Great teacher.

 

[mjw1]

The only difference is that I continue to use it in sparring successfully where you did not. I also understand fighting well enough to know that wing chun--while effective in its range--does not stay the entire fight since fights don't happen in a single range.

Perhaps that's where yours failed? You can't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail. Well you could--but then that'd be like you trying to use your wing chun without knowing how it works.

Well put

 

[SAAMAG]

For example. In my gym punches that we through back and forth as light jabs have more power than many of the wing chun strikes. Let alone when we really start batting each other. I see stars at least a few times every sparring session in boxing from the power of the blows. Youll never find that in wing chun....

...But the way I see it, a bike will get you somewhere fast, but a car will get you there even faster. Thats why rank boxing over wing chun.

Don't be too quick to pull the weak punch card. I'm currently working with Scott Baker, who is a wing chun internal stylist, and that guy hits harder than anyone I've ever been hit by. He just nonchalantly (relaxed) palmed my chest with me holding a phone book on it--and I felt it deep within my chest. I mean I didn't step back or anything...but man in retrospect I should have. That shit hurt like hell.

There are also a number of guys who practice wing chun (even on youtube) that knock people out with headgear and gloves on too. Sooo there's that also.

I do agree at least for me relatively speaking my boxing cross is harder than my wing chun punch, but my wing chun punch is harder than my jab and about the same as my straight. Hooks from either style are about the same (wing chun does have hooks and even uppercuts).

 

[random shot:]

After you talked about beating up a WC Instructor in Sydney who has been doing it for 8yr's and you have only done it for 1yr i figured you were full of s*** but i gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked this.

May i ask where this school is located and the name of the school? Also the name of the instruct or aswell if u remeber.

You replied

LOL

I didnt mean going around beating ppl up in WC, I meant I visit them while im traveling to see and experience what they are like and it also allows me to train while im travelling. I reckon the neijia aspect is quite important too, teaches u how to use ur "real power" basically and the structure and being relaxed is the fundamental steps.

I seriously dnt get why there all are these politics with WC, u dnt see this stuff much in other arts compared to WC.

Theres always ppl claiming "oh my sifu beat his guy and this guy so our WC is the best" LOL at that shit

Its more of an indiviual thing i think

This ^^^ proved my point you changed what u meant as soon as i saw through your lie. So i figured your just some WC guy who is full of himself but then you said this.

Notice how a lot of WC and kung fu ppl dont do weight training and so they get over powered by a half desent boxer or MT guy because they do strength training.

Now i think ur just a troll who doesn't train WC at all anyone with even a basic white belt level knowledge of WC knows that the core concept of the art and what it is most proud of is the fact that brute strength is not required at all period anywhere in the system to make it work its all about structure and technique> strength.

Thats why a 15yr old girl suffering from eating disorerders that weighs like 40 kilos woud not get over powered by 5X world strongest man turned MMA fighter Marius Pudz in a fight if she had perfect WC structure and technique.

 

[Inquisitus]

Thats why a 15yr old girl suffering from eating disorerders that weighs like 40 kilos woud not get over powered by 5X world strongest man turned MMA fighter Marius Pudz in a fight if she had perfect WC structure and technique.

Do you actually believe this? I didn't see any smileys.

 

[Nak Muay Farang]

Do you actually believe this? I didn't see any smileys.

A lot of Wing Chun Theory is about feeling where your enemies strength is and not overcommiting, that's why i don't usually get thrown around, you push, but don't overcommit your centre, compromising your balance, and if someone puts an incredible amount of strength at you, just flow with it. But I still wouldn't want to fight Mariuz Pudz

 

[random shot:]

Do you actually believe this? I didn't see any smileys.[/QUOT

Whether I belive it or not is besideds the point. The point is if he really did train WC he would know that is common belif in the system.

After all the whole MA was created by a woman to defend against a male warlord who wanted her hand in marrige after she smashed him in a fight he left her in peace (as they agreed he would if she won. If he had won she would of married him.)

 

[sukotsuto]

Of all people to compare to, it's frickin' Super Mariusz.

Just like I mentioned earlier in this thread, still waiting for a good WC guy to do well in MMA or even in kickboxing tournaments. If I recall correctly, there are some WC guys back in the early days of MMA (they're not necessarily competing in the UFC, since they fought in other orgs), but they either lost, or just switched to a kickboxing skill set in order to survive. I forgot their names, but I read about it in Clyde Gentry's "No Holds Barred" book.

And the "keeping the centerline" theory and being unable to be pushed easily may have come from fighters who trained on boats (and some of them are Chinese/Okinawan/Japanese pirates). They use an hourglass stance in order to maintain balance and footing on a rocking boat.

 

[Mazinkaiser]

LOL

Im just saying, would a WC guy be a better fighter if he had gone thru power training and conditioning, so the conditioning level and stamina is comparable to K1 fights?

I do WC, and we dont do any weight training or anything at our dojo. But i think it would be nice to last like K1 and mma fighters.

U can be strong and be relaxed.... its not like if u do strength training ull be come stiff etc, thats just noob.

I started this thread lol and some ppl think i dont even do WC

 

[Mazinkaiser]

hey random shot, my dojo doesnt have a name but hes the website
Welcome to Bruce Cheng Martial Arts - The authentic Lo Man Kam Wing Chung school in New Zealand

my sifu is Bruce Cheng. how does not answering ur quesstion makes me a liar lol

Ohh i saw right through ur lies lol. U are just full of urself, do u read ppls minds for a living or sth. no offense.

Everyone has their opinion and im not offended by you or anything.

If you train 5 6 times a week and u are looking for infro on your art on the forum and some random guy says u dont do ur art.

It doesnt really go does it


Check out the website. U asked for the adress, its in New Zealand, many ppl here are from the US. I dnt see how most ppl will know this New Zealand address

 

[Mazinkaiser]

Random shot. Yes I did beat an instructor in Sydney who trained for 8 years, he told me himself that he trained for 8 years and he also said their WC school is different because they do it very slow so they can focus of the relaxation and structure and that type of internal stuff.

His chi sao and strikes were slow, he would just keep pushing in with his good structure etc, but in a actual fight u are not going to say hey lets start from chi sao position right?

He was slow, much slower than ppl in my dojo, when i felt his energy I turned and pulled at the same time

He said, they learn very slow, it takes them about 1 year to learn first form, siu nim tao. it took him like 6 or 7 to finish everything.

I dunno, maybe u are just a less gifted fighter or u just dnt train hard enough or all ur oppenent are very gifted or that wc instructor was just really shit, he was about 178 - 180 cm tall and was skinny, very skinny, 65 or less im around the same height, and i weighed 88 then. I knew the stuff he knew so yea.

 

[SAAMAG]

Here's another great video of wing chun application...Duncan Leung's "Applied Wing Chun"

YouTube - Applied WingChun Bern - - Timing-sparring

 

[sukotsuto]

Here's another great video of wing chun application...Duncan Leung's "Applied Wing Chun"

YouTube - Applied WingChun Bern - - Timing-sparring

Still no full force contact (other than maybe push kicks)...

 

[SAAMAG]

Still no full force contact (other than maybe push kicks)...

It's application in a sparring atmosphere with enough to keep it honest (moreso with the kicks though I agree there), but they're not trying to knock each other's teeth out so to speak.

I doubt you spar full contact at 100% in every session. If you say you do then you'd be lying because no one does. Sparring and fighting both have varying levels of intensity.

 

[mjw1]

LOL

Im just saying, would a WC guy be a better fighter if he had gone thru power training and conditioning, so the conditioning level and stamina is comparable to K1 fights?

I do WC, and we dont do any weight training or anything at our dojo. But i think it would be nice to last like K1 and mma fighters.

U can be strong and be relaxed.... its not like if u do strength training ull be come stiff etc, thats just noob.

I started this thread lol and some ppl think i dont even do WC

Yes a lot of WC people say the weights make you stiff though if you stretch you shouldn't have such a problem.....I do both personally with a 5 day weight lifting routine and 6 day cardio routine on top of my WC & BJJ.....

 

[mjw1]

It's application in a sparring atmosphere with enough to keep it honest (moreso with the kicks though I agree there), but they're not trying to knock each other's teeth out so to speak.

I doubt you spar full contact at 100% in every session. If you say you do then you'd be lying because no one does. Sparring and fighting both have varying levels of intensity.

Agreed!

 

[Capt.Canuck]

Here's another great video of wing chun application...Duncan Leung's "Applied Wing Chun"

YouTube - Applied WingChun Bern - - Timing-sparring

Their footwork is awful and their stances lack stability (case in point the guy in the green that went flying across the room with a slight push).

There are just so many gaping holes in both the offence and the defence that anyone with any real sparring experience would exploit quite easily.

 

[SAAMAG]

Their footwork is awful and their stances lack stability (case in point the guy in the green that went flying across the room with a slight push).

There are just so many gaping holes in both the offence and the defence that anyone with any real sparring experience would exploit quite easily.

Well sure...it's easy to talk about any of the videos that are put up. Any one of us could critique any video of any style to our hearts content. It happens even with the muay thai vids or any of the sparring vids that are up. The fact of the matter is that even professionals make rookie mistakes from time to time. Even professionals have things that can be critiqued. But they're out there doing it because the process is never ending.

That's why I say that the whole idea of posting up video for the holy grail of definitive footage doesn't prove anything at all. It only provides a venue for people to talk without having to back it up, and to give theories on hypotheticals that will never be realized.

The point of that last vid was--there are wing chun folks who practice in much the same manner as any other "sport" martial art. Relative to other wing chun chi sao crap that's out there its a major improvement. They're not professional fighters, and they don't claim to be. They train as realistically as they can. Some training models are better than others of course, but whether or not you or someone else could "defeat" them in a match cannot be ascertained in a forum.

But you still haven't said anything about Alan Orr's guys yet....what do you think of them?