Crime What did the cops do wrong today. Vol. 1

[Ice That Jaw]

I'll leave it up to the courts to convict the cop. It still has me shaking my head. I think a big part of it is bad parenting.

My Father instilled in me as a teen, extreme paranoia of Police. He made it abundantly clear to avoid any situation that would attract their presence, and if it was inevitable, that I immediately comply at all costs, even if it was a mistake.

This is coming from the most responsible person I have ever known. My Pops is 70 years old and has never even had a single traffic ticket. He has never had a reason to fear cops but now as I'm older, I truly appreciate it. I can only imagine how much more would have laid it on me if I was black. lol

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Haven't read the full thread yet, but I haven't seen as legit a back and forth from both sides of an argument like this in a long time. Both sides landing some body blows and completely ignoring their own biases.

1. Glad this cop got caught by the body cam. Hope he rots. Our ENTIRE legal system needs reform, from the legislation, to the police, to the judicial system. Abuse of power is running amok.

2. It's not all cops, just like it's not all minorities, Muslims, immigrants, etc.

3. The difference is, we can put rules and measures in place to objectively measure, prevent, and prosecute our outliers within the legal system. Then they can do their honest best to do the same for society.

 

[Phisher]

I'll leave it up to the courts to convict the cop. It still has me shaking my head. I think a big part of it is bad parenting.

My Father instilled in me as a teen, extreme paranoia of Police. He made it abundantly clear to avoid any situation that would attract their presence, and if it was inevitable, that I immediately comply at all costs, even if it was a mistake.

This is coming from the most responsible person I have ever known. My Pops is 70 years old and has never even had a single traffic ticket. He has never had a reason to fear cops but now as I'm older, I truly appreciate it. I can only imagine how much more would have laid it on me if I was black. lol

Dude, you have to be totally incapable of critical thought to respond to this story by regurgitating that "where are the fathers" horseshit.

Does every kid who goes to a house party as a teenager come from a broken home in your world? I went to literally went to hundreds of them during high school when I was growing up in Austin. Never once did it occur to me that I'd be shot to death by the police trying to leave.

Bad parenting didn't cause this situation. The kid came from a stable family with both parents present in the home, a fact which has nothing to do the issue at hand.

The problem here is that an officer decided to respond to a noise complaint about a high school party by firing a rifle indiscriminately at a random car. This speaks to a failure of training in that department and possible deficiencies in the hiring process. It has fuck all to do with bad parenting.

 

[B0mbSquad]

>rampant police violence

citation critically needed



lol I'm not talking about strictly terrorists. A popular liberal talking point is that Islamic extremism is only a tiny, minuscule amount of people. AKA actually a "few bad apples." When in reality, there are a metric fuck ton of Muslims that don't kill people the way ISIS does, but still want Sharia Law implemented and want apostates/gays to be killed.

Where's your citation, big man?

"Tiny, minuscule amount of people" is relative to the number of total people in the group to which you're referring.

Police culture is a rampant problem in this country. Bad people get hired, do a bad job, and beat their wives.

 

[machidafan99]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/4/fbi-report-officers-de-policing-anti-cop-hostility/

Depolicing. Scary trend.

 

[Phisher]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/4/fbi-report-officers-de-policing-anti-cop-hostility/

Depolicing. Scary trend.

...seems to be working out fine for New York City.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-2017-drops-lowest-recorded-article-1.3018309

Police contacts are at all time low due to the end of stop and frisk and broken windows and "depolicing," yet crime continues to drop.


The national homicide rate is also at a 51 year low in spite of all the fucking fear mongering.

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

By throwing this temper tantrum about being criticized, cops are actually proving how useless all of the aggressive policing and tough on crime policies instituted in the 90s were.

 

[Mike]

If we look at the Washington Post's incident database, which ironically they set up with anti-cop sentiment, there were about 20 cases of unarmed suspects getting shot under dubious circumstances in 2015. Aside from that 20, the vast majority of people getting shot were in the process of attacking someone, were holding a lethal weapon or using a vehicle as a weapon, were threatening someone's life, etc.

Now let's say for the sake of argument that watchdog groups and the press missed about 2/3 of the incidents, which I think is a generous assumption, that leaves us with 60 people shot unfairly.

For a country of 300M people, that's a tiny number. There are about 750 000 active cops in the US. Let's say for the sake of argument that 1% of them are "killer" cops, who enjoy killing people for no reason. 7500 killer cops roaming around and they only kill 60 people unfairly in a year? I don't think so. I'd say we're very, very firmly in the realm of an under-1% phenomenon. The term bad apple is literally true. What's happening is that people are drawing vast generalizations based on a tiny number of incidents who are highly mediatized, inflating the public perception of their frequency.

The problem is that small fraction usually avoids doing any jail time for what would be called murder, and carry a life sentence if you or I did it. It understandably leads to animosity when killing a minority is basically a "freebie" if you're a cop. If these bad cops got a prison sentence every time, there wouldn't be so much anger.

 

[Mike]

I should have chose my words more carefully from the start. I only meant that cops are not racists who kill for sport, and the narrative that they are is not backed by statistics.

And i think most reasonable people know this. The problem is, the minority of shitty cops is large enough to always have a story about police brutality on the news. And of course the media will jump on these stories because they can profit from them. The fact is, historically cops can batter and even murder minorities and often face no punishment. That's a serious problem when we're trying to promote the image of an equal society.


The problem is the lack of punishment. People often bring up "well this police brutality is a drop in the bucket compared to crimes minorities commit etc" But we hold law enforcement to a higher standard than random criminals,who actually do time when they commit a crime. This will never stop being a huge issue until killing a minority is met with the same sentence as killing a white person, and cops actually start doing jail time and losing their jobs when they commit violent crimes.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

Dude, you have to be totally incapable of critical thought to respond to this story by regurgitating that "where are the fathers" horseshit.

Does every kid who goes to a house party as a teenager come from a broken home in your world? I went to literally went to hundreds of them during high school when I was growing up in Austin. Never once did it occur to me that I'd be shot to death by the police trying to leave.

Bad parenting didn't cause this situation. The kid came from a stable family with both parents present in the home, a fact which has nothing to do the issue at hand.

The problem here is that an officer decided to respond to a noise complaint about a high school party by firing a rifle indiscriminately at a random car. This speaks to a failure of training in that department and possible deficiencies in the hiring process. It has fuck all to do with bad parenting.

Cool story dude. When you get shot by a cop for not being careful, be sure to tell him all about his failure.

 

[SLUG1186]

And i think most reasonable people know this. The problem is, the minority of shitty cops is large enough to always have a story about police brutality on the news. And of course the media will jump on these stories because they can profit from them. The fact is, historically cops can batter and even murder minorities and often face no punishment. That's a serious problem when we're trying to promote the image of an equal society.


The problem is the lack of punishment. People often bring up "well this police brutality is a drop in the bucket compared to crimes minorities commit etc" But we hold law enforcement to a higher standard than random criminals,who actually do time when they commit a crime. This will never stop being a huge issue until killing a minority is met with the same sentence as killing a white person, and cops actually start doing jail time and losing their jobs when they commit violent crimes.

You make it seem like cops are out hunting down minorities who are just minding their own business which is bullshit.
Cops kill white people all the time without being punished.
If you are resisting arrest during the commission of a crime your chance of survival drops with every second, regardless of the color of your skin.

You are right about the punishment tho, cops violate department policy and basic civil rights(unlawful detainment) and get off without punishment whether they were in the wrong or not and even when it's on camera.

 

[dontsnitch]

And i think most reasonable people know this. The problem is, the minority of shitty cops is large enough to always have a story about police brutality on the news. And of course the media will jump on these stories because they can profit from them. The fact is, historically cops can batter and even murder minorities and often face no punishment. That's a serious problem when we're trying to promote the image of an equal society.


The problem is the lack of punishment. People often bring up "well this police brutality is a drop in the bucket compared to crimes minorities commit etc" But we hold law enforcement to a higher standard than random criminals,who actually do time when they commit a crime. This will never stop being a huge issue until killing a minority is met with the same sentence as killing a white person, and cops actually start doing jail time and losing their jobs when they commit violent crimes.

I agree that a change needs to take place, but we also have to start with an honest foundation. BLM and their narrative only hurts.

 

[Mike]

You make it seem like cops are out hunting down minorities who are just minding their own business which is bullshit.
Cops kill white people all the time without being punished.
If you are resisting arrest during the commission of a crime your chance of survival drops with every second, regardless of the color of your skin.

You are right about the punishment tho, cops violate department policy and basic civil rights(unlawful detainment) and get off without punishment whether they were in the wrong or not and even when it's on camera.

Yeah and when they kill people of any race unlawfully, they should do the same time you or I would. When it's a minority it makes the news because that sells. There's nothing I can do about that. If a white guy got shot 30 times reaching for his ID or while running away, I'd protest that too.

I agree that a change needs to take place, but we also have to start with an honest foundation. BLM and their narrative only hurts.

Well sure. I'm not a BLM supporter or anything. They're terrible. Not really what we were discussing though. There's a lot of different things going on that are wrong. Including cops indiscriminately blasting people on a regular enough basis that it's always in the news. If they prosecuted the bad cops, and harshly, communities might start trusting cops again. And we might get less idiots killing innocent cops clear across the country because they feel like people are out to get them.


Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for sure, we've never tried holding bad cops accountable before. It couldn't hurt. I get that it's a small %, but it's hard to even communicate with basically militant minority groups as long as they feel their lives hold no value to society. If all of these bad cops started getting prosecuted as heavily as any other person would, we could at least say look we're taking this seriously now calm down and let's try to communicate here.

 

[Mike]

Cool story dude. When you get shot by a cop for not being careful, be sure to tell him all about his failure.

So because they're able to get away with murdering civilians that just makes it ok? Victim blaming makes more sense when the person in question is at least in the middle of committing some crime. Maybe the message should be cops should have better training, and shouldn't be able to just murder people.


Not you twitch the wrong way in front of a cop you're going to get murdered, what do you expect? That's the behavior we expect from gang members, not law enforcement. It is perfectly reasonable to expect that cops won't kill people that don't pose any kind of threat.

 

[KONE]

Where's your citation, big man?

"Tiny, minuscule amount of people" is relative to the number of total people in the group to which you're referring.

Police culture is a rampant problem in this country. Bad people get hired, do a bad job, and beat their wives.

Here it is:

If we look at the Washington Post's incident database, which ironically they set up with anti-cop sentiment, there were about 20 cases of unarmed suspects getting shot under dubious circumstances in 2015. Aside from that 20, the vast majority of people getting shot were in the process of attacking someone, were holding a lethal weapon or using a vehicle as a weapon, were threatening someone's life, etc.

Now let's say for the sake of argument that watchdog groups and the press missed about 2/3 of the incidents, which I think is a generous assumption, that leaves us with 60 people shot unfairly.

For a country of 300M people, that's a tiny number. There are about 750 000 active cops in the US. Let's say for the sake of argument that 1% of them are "killer" cops, who enjoy killing people for no reason. 7500 killer cops roaming around and they only kill 60 people unfairly in a year? I don't think so. I'd say we're very, very firmly in the realm of an under-1% phenomenon. The term bad apple is literally true. What's happening is that people are drawing vast generalizations based on a tiny number of incidents who are highly mediatized, inflating the public perception of their frequency.

The problem is that small fraction usually avoids doing any jail time for what would be called murder, and carry a life sentence if you or I did it. It understandably leads to animosity when killing a minority is basically a "freebie" if you're a cop. If these bad cops got a prison sentence every time, there wouldn't be so much anger.

It leads to animosity every time it happens before the details are even out, let alone when waiting for the cop to be convicted, so I have trouble believing that. We still have ridiculously large amounts of people who still think Mike Brown was innocent.

 

[Mike]

Here it is:







It leads to animosity every time it happens before the details are even out, let alone when waiting for the cop to be convicted, so I have trouble believing that. We still have ridiculously large amounts of people who still think Mike Brown was innocent.

Sure that's true and it's part of a separate larger issue. Some minorities feel like whites in general and cops in particular are out to get them. That isn't true in a larger sense, but cops getting away with beating and even killing people IS an issue. Regardless of the race of the victim.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Was it posted that the guy is facing charges now?

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017...olice-shooting-texas-balch-springs?yptr=yahoo

Now, the officer involved in the shooting, Roy Oliver, has been charged with murder, with a judge signing an arrest warrant earlier on Friday. Oliver had already been fired earlier this week, because, police said, he “violated several departmental policies.”

 

[dontsnitch]

Yeah and when they kill people of any race unlawfully, they should do the same time you or I would. When it's a minority it makes the news because that sells. There's nothing I can do about that. If a white guy got shot 30 times reaching for his ID or while running away, I'd protest that too.



Well sure. I'm not a BLM supporter or anything. They're terrible. Not really what we were discussing though. There's a lot of different things going on that are wrong. Including cops indiscriminately blasting people on a regular enough basis that it's always in the news. If they prosecuted the bad cops, and harshly, communities might start trusting cops again. And we might get less idiots killing innocent cops clear across the country because they feel like people are out to get them.


Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for sure, we've never tried holding bad cops accountable before. It couldn't hurt. I get that it's a small %, but it's hard to even communicate with basically militant minority groups as long as they feel their lives hold no value to society. If all of these bad cops started getting prosecuted as heavily as any other person would, we could at least say look we're taking this seriously now calm down and let's try to communicate here.

I don't disagree that a change needs to take place within the executive branch, but we also have to be reasonable. There's 330 million people in the US, meaning It would be more strange if something odd didn't happen everyday. It's for that reason that we shouldn't make anecdotal evidence weigh more than it does.

The other problem is that if we punish cops too severely, it will impact their judgment and their ability to do their job effectively. If a cop is constantly worried about a bad shoot (or whatever) he stands the chance to put more lives at risk by not acting as he should. It's for this reason that we need to tread carefully here. I'm not saying that there aren't bad cops, in fact, it's pretty obvious applicants are not scrutinized enough, but we need a balanced approach.

 

[Mike]

I don't disagree that a change needs to take place within the executive branch, but we also have to be reasonable. There's 330 million people in the US, meaning It would be more strange if something odd didn't happen everyday. It's for that reason that we shouldn't make anecdotal evidence weigh more than it does.

The other problem is that if we punish cops too severely, it will impact their judgment and their ability to do their job effectively. If a cop is constantly worried about a bad shoot (or whatever) he stands the chance to put more lives at risk by not acting as he should. It's for this reason that we need to tread carefully here. I'm not saying that there aren't bad cops, in fact, it's pretty obvious applicants are not scrutinized enough, but we need a balanced approach.

Well many of the cases that get headlines are pretty egregious. In those cases, they need to start doing time like anyone else would. The problem is cops and military personnel should have been held to a higher standard in the first place. You're choosing to take on the burden of defending people on behalf of your country and community. So if you shoot someone in the back and plant your taser on them afterwards, you should do time. If someone is walking, running, or driving away from you and you kill them, you should go to prison. Ditto for all cases of excessive force.


Enough of these stories get headlines that we know they're not isolated incidents. If these guys were kicked off the force and did some time, there wouldn't be this level of outrage. Part of it is our justice system is outdated and hopelessly fucked up. No matter your race, if you don't have money or power you might be randomly chosen to be made an example of. People see that and then see cops straight up murdering people and not even being fired let alone doing time, and yeah it looks pretty bad.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

If these guys were kicked off the force and did some time, there wouldn't be this level of outrage.

Might be about as succinct as this issue gets. Lack of accountability undermines faith in a system, which undermines the desire to participate for many.

 

[Mike]

Might be about as succinct as this issue gets. Lack of accountability undermines faith in a system, which undermines the desire to participate for many.

Blatant corruption undermines any system and makes people resentful and emotional. Especially those at the bottom. People react very negatively to the idea of unfairness. He can get away with ____, but I can't! That's bullshit! This would rapidly turn into a nonissue if the most egregious cases started getting stiff sentences. The way any normal person without influence would.