Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria(Kurds Reach Afrin Deal with Syrian Government Forces)

[Prex32]

What has that got to do with them killing Kurds?

pretty naive of you (or simply clueless) if you think turkey would allow kurdistan as a neighbour.
citing history doesn't help neither. us actions basically fuel another possible genocide.
i'm not siding with anyone, just observing.

 

[Seaside]

Kurds cannot be expect to hold a enclave. that area either better under syrian government control or turkish you do not want radicals. it sad but kurds should retreat they need a contagious area of land and they have that in iraq and north east syria. trying to have pockets all over will not work for them.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Looks like Erdogang wants some pain!

Wurr!! Wurr!

 

[TheGreatA]

I don't think America really gives a crap about the Kurds beyond their usefulness in resolving the Syrian situation. Certainly not to the point of risking a war.

 

[Bloodworth]

Iran to Iraq for Some turkey

 

[ShinkanPo]

Iran to Iraq for Some turkey

 

[SBJJ]

Funny we helped overthrow him at a time he was really starting to look like one of the most progressive(not saying much) leaders in that area

 

[Der Eisbär]

Dont understand why the Kurds continue to ally with us and support us when we refuse to support them at every turn.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Funny we helped overthrow him at a time he was really starting to look like one of the most progressive(not saying much) leaders in that area

Oh man yeah hahahaha my computer fucked up! I was supposed to post a different picture!

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

pretty naive of you (or simply clueless) if you think turkey would allow kurdistan as a neighbour.
citing history doesn't help neither. us actions basically fuel another possible genocide.
i'm not siding with anyone, just observing.

If the west decided to make a Kurdistan state Turkey couldn't stop it , the only card turkey has and the card that it has been playing for a very long time it's being a buffer and a quasi Ally if Turkey put itself in a position where is neither of those things it won't go well for them.

Of course if Russia really decided to back Turkey and Turkey is shifting away from the west on its own that would change things ....

This is a shit show

 

[mcveteran81]

I don't think America really gives a crap about the Kurds beyond their usefulness in resolving the Syrian situation. Certainly not to the point of risking a war.

I'm not so sure. Have you seen what Rex Tillerson said is the U.S mission for northern syria?
Tillerson outlines plan for long-term US military role in Syria
Link Source 1 (The Hill) : Tillerson outlines plan for long-term US military role in Syria

Tillerson says U.S. military should stay in Syria and vows diplomatic push to end civil war
Link Source 2 (LA Times) : http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-tillerson-syria-20180117-story.html

US military to maintain open-ended presence in Syria, Tillerson says
Link Source 3 (The Guardian) : https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/us-military-syria-isis-iran-assad-tillerson

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Wednesday it was "crucial" for the United States to maintain an open-ended military and diplomatic presence in Syria to prevent Islamic State militants from regrouping, to thwart Iranian influence and ultimately to see the exit of President Bashar Assad.

 

[Squish II]

I don't think America really gives a crap about the Kurds beyond their usefulness in resolving the Syrian situation. Certainly not to the point of risking a war.

Afrin never received any support from the US and Russia only aided them because it was convenient in the fight against the FSA. Rojava wanted to connect with Afrin canton while US was more interested in getting them to the Syria-Iraqi border in hopes of being able to control the border crossing there. Offensives west of the Euphrates like Manbij were probably a distraction in there eyes.

Shit is getting even more Wilson! by the day.

Turkey sees a small chance its military could face US forces in Syria's Manbij

Link Source 1 (Business insider) http://www.businessinsider.com/turk...-could-face-us-forces-in-syrias-manbij-2018-1

Erdogan says to extend Syria operation despite risk of U.S. confrontation

Link Source 2 (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...spite-risk-of-u-s-confrontation-idUSKBN1FD1YD

U.S.-backed Syria force denies Islamic State in area targeted by Turkey

Link Source 3 (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...argeted-by-turkey-idUSKBN1FC12J?ref=hvper.com

Erdogan threatens to extend Afrin operation to Manbij

Link Source 4 (Al Jazeera) http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...hters-killed-syria-afrin-180124082613964.html

Britons volunteering with Syrian-Kurdish militia head to battle with Turkey

Link Source 5 (Telegraph) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-syrian-kurdish-militia-head-battle-turkey/

British men prepare to fight Turkish-led forces in Syria

Link Source 6 (BBC News) http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42799284

About 20 foreign fighters including Americans, Germans, and Britons are joining the YPG to fight against Turkish forces in Afrin.

Link Source 7 (The New Arab) https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...teers-to-fight-against-turkish-force-in-afrin

It’s Time to Kick Erdogan’s Turkey Out of NATO

Link Source 8 (Huffington Post) https://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-weiss/its-time-to-kick-erdogans_b_9300670.html


-------------------------------------------

Snippets from several of the articles below;

President Tayyip Erdogan warned on Wednesday that Turkey would extend its military operation in Syria to the town of Manbij, a move that could potentially bring Turkish forces into confrontation with those of their NATO ally the United States.

Turkey’s air and ground operation, now in its fifth day, targets U.S.-backed Kurdish YPG fighters in the Afrin region and has opened a new front in Syria’s multi-sided civil war. A push toward Manbij some 100 km (60 miles) east of Afrin could threaten U.S. plans to stabilize a swath of northeast Syria.

Differences over Syria policy have already strained Turkey’s relations with Washington almost to breaking point. For the United States, the YPG is a key ally against both Islamic State jihadists and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s forces.

A Turkish operation in Manbij would be fraught with risk due to the presence of U.S. military personnel in and around the town. They were deployed there last March to deter Turkish and U.S.-backed rebels from attacking each other and have also carried out training missions in Manbij.

---------------------------------------------

Turkey’s military, the second largest in NATO, has conducted air strikes and artillery barrages against targets in Afrin, and its soldiers and allied Syrian rebels tried to thrust into the Kurdish-held district from west, north and eastern flanks.

With heavy cloud hindering air support in the last 24 hours, advances have been limited and Kurdish militia have retaken some territory. Turkish troops and the Syrian fighters have been trying to take the summit of Bursaya Hill, overlooking the eastern approach to Afrin town.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based war monitor, said 23 civilians had been killed in Turkish shelling and air strikes, and thousands were fleeing the fighting.

Xelil, the SDF official, said the SDF had killed tens of Turkish forces and allied Free Syrian Army fighters, but said he did not have a precise figure.

----------------------------------------------

The 20-person group is calling itself the Tabûra Şehîd Rûbar.

Amongst the volunteers is twenty-four-year-old British-Chinese fighter Huang Lei. Lei previously travelled to Syria in 2015 to fight against the Islamic State, telling the BBC it was his “duty”.

"There was a desire on the part of the foreign fighters who fought in Raqqa and who are fighting in Deir az-Zour to go to Afrin," senior SDF official Redur Xelil later told Reuters.

He declined to say when the foreigners had gone to Afrin, but said they numbered in the "tens". "They will wage battles against the Turkish invasion," Xelil said.

"There are Americans, Britons, Germans, different nationalities from Europe, Asia and America," Xelil said.

Although international fighters have been involved in the Syrian war for years, this marks a different form of involvement – and entails fighters taking on a sovereign country and NATO member. “This brings up certain legal considerations,” said Michael Stephens, a Middle East analyst from the Royal United Services Institute, in a BBC interview.

Turkey began Operation Olive Branch on Saturday – an air and ground campaign to root out the People’s Protection Units (YPG), a Kurdish militia Turkey considers a terrorist group, in Afrin.

The YPG has a contingent of 8,000 to 10,000 fighters in the 800,000-person city.

Dozens have been killed and at least 5,000 civilians displaced since the operation began last week.

-------------------------------------------

NATO shouldn’t come to Turkey’s defense - instead, it should begin proceedings immediately to determine if the lengthy and growing list of Turkish transgressions against the West, including its support for Islamic terrorists, have merit. And if they do - and they most certainly do - the Alliance’s supreme decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, should formally oust Turkey from NATO for good before its belligerence and continual aggression drags the international community into World War III

That Huffington post article really rubs me the wrong way:

"The Kurds, like the Turks, are sometimes seen through the lens of who they used to be, and not who they are now. In 1997, Turkey convinced the U.S. to put the PKK on its list of terrorist organizations, and Erdogan claims Syria’s Kurds are guilty by association. But in fact, the YPG has worked so closely with the U.S. against Islamic terrorists that the Washington Post recently referred to its members as “U.S. proxy forces.” ”

So because the YPG fought against ISIS it erases the crimes that the PKK committed and continues to do so against innocents? Bullshit its its impossible to deny the links between the YPG and the PKK. YPG territories are pretty much safe havens for PKK members and US-Supplied equipment has been smuggled into Turkey to the PKK and there have been a few attacks on Turkish towns originating from the Syrian side of the border. The Syrian government used to support the PKK until Turkey worked out a deal with them. There are a few videos showing PKK flags in the homes of Kurdish people in Afrin from this offensive.

The fact is that Turkey is so salty because the US is essentially backing the PKK because it is convenient for them. Erdogan is a dick who says a lot of false shit for his fanatical fan base to consume, but this author just has a clear bias against Turkey and uses it to ignore the blood that is also on the YPG/PKK's hands. The PKK destroyed/assimilated every other Kurdish terroist group that popped up in Turkey, except for TAK. TAK openly targets civilians and its just so convenient that PKK claims to only target military/police targets so they aren't responsible for that stuff no. The drift in Turkey-NATO relations is because of their differing interests in the Syrian Civil War but its not enough to make Turkey ally with Russia and certainly not enough for them to want to leave NATO. Sorry if I come off as aggressive I'm not mad at you I'm just ranting and its 3:30 where i am

 

[Squish II]

Dont understand why the Kurds continue to ally with us and support us when we refuse to support them at every turn.

They take what they can get and this war is an opportunity for them to try to get their Independence but it depends on their relationship with the US. The aid going to Afrin is the YPG, not the US. The US doesn't seem to want to touch that area, maybe because it would piss off Turkey too much.

I'm not so sure. Have you seen what Rex Tillerson said is the U.S mission for northern syria?
Tillerson outlines plan for long-term US military role in Syria
Link Source 1 (The Hill) : Tillerson outlines plan for long-term US military role in Syria

Tillerson says U.S. military should stay in Syria and vows diplomatic push to end civil war
Link Source 2 (LA Times) : http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-tillerson-syria-20180117-story.html

US military to maintain open-ended presence in Syria, Tillerson says
Link Source 3 (The Guardian) : https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/us-military-syria-isis-iran-assad-tillerson

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Wednesday it was "crucial" for the United States to maintain an open-ended military and diplomatic presence in Syria to prevent Islamic State militants from regrouping, to thwart Iranian influence and ultimately to see the exit of President Bashar Assad.

They seem to be settling down for a long term occupation in Rojava. They will claim it is to suppress the ISIS presence there but they obviously want influence in post war Syria. See on liveuamap.com the green rebel held border crossing between Iraq and Syria? That is where the US-Backed Rebels are and the plan seemed to be for the YPG to take control of the border from ISIS and link up with the US Rebels to deny a land connect between Iran and Syria. The Syrian Gov obviously beat the YPG to it. That's why I reckon Manbij was considered a waste of time. Securing the Turkish border from ISIS was important, but not as important as countering Iran.

The general consensus is that Russia is doesn't care Syria is defacto partitioned as long as its assets in the country are safe. Iran on the other hand wants the Syrian government to have complete control of all of the country's territory no matter what the cost. That might explain why they withdrew from Afrin since it wasn't worth it

 

[Squish II]

If the west decided to make a Kurdistan state Turkey couldn't stop it , the only card turkey has and the card that it has been playing for a very long time it's being a buffer and a quasi Ally if Turkey put itself in a position where is neither of those things it won't go well for them.

Of course if Russia really decided to back Turkey and Turkey is shifting away from the west on its own that would change things ....

This is a shit show

Turkey seems to be trying to take advantage of both sides so that it can get its demands met but who knows what goes on in Erdogans head...

I think Turkey would never voluntarily leave NATO

 

[Supereem]

pretty naive of you (or simply clueless) if you think turkey would allow kurdistan as a neighbour.
citing history doesn't help neither. us actions basically fuel another possible genocide.
i'm not siding with anyone, just observing.

Okay so Turkey has treated the Kurds like shit and are now threatened by them creating their own state as a result. So because they helpedcause this mess originally they are justified to go in and probably start another genocide?

 

[Der Eisbär]

They take what they can get and this war is an opportunity for them to try to get their Independence but it depends on their relationship with the US. The aid going to Afrin is the YPG, not the US. The US doesn't seem to want to touch that area, maybe because it would piss off Turkey too much.


They seem to be settling down for a long term occupation in Rojava. They will claim it is to suppress the ISIS presence there but they obviously want influence in post war Syria. See on liveuamap.com the green rebel held border crossing between Iraq and Syria? That is where the US-Backed Rebels are and the plan seemed to be for the YPG to take control of the border from ISIS and link up with the US Rebels to deny a land connect between Iran and Syria. The Syrian Gov obviously beat the YPG to it. That's why I reckon Manbij was considered a waste of time. Securing the Turkish border from ISIS was important, but not as important as countering Iran.

The general consensus is that Russia is doesn't care Syria is defacto partitioned as long as its assets in the country are safe. Iran on the other hand wants the Syrian government to have complete control of all of the country's territory no matter what the cost. That might explain why they withdrew from Afrin since it wasn't worth it

I don't understand why we care about Turkey so much. Erdogan can go fuck himself with a 10 foot pole. He has refused to help out with the migrant crisis and with every passing year attempts to Islamize his country further and further while simultaneously trying to get into the EU. We should have come down hard on Turkey years ago and stop letting them get away with this shit. Embargos, sanctions, and a soft-threat of military force.

This is one area where I would like to see Trump use some of his bone-headed bravado and come down hard on a country.

1. Accept ME migrants. You're a regional power. This crisis is in your back yard. It is your responsibility to help.
2. Stop attacking the Kurds. Now.
3. Stop pushing theocracy on your secular nation.

Do 1, 2, and 3 as quickly as is feasible or sanctions and hardships await your country.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The thread title has me envisioning a shopping cart ramming a dump-truck.

 

[-dirtywhiteboy-]

ottomans gonna ottoman. the m.e is a disaster. reminds me of how the brits turned there back on the arabs after ww1 if the west bails.

 

[Prex32]

Okay so Turkey has treated the Kurds like shit and are now threatened by them creating their own state as a result

well, maybe? so you're surprised by their reaction? you basically confirmed it. the kurds want a state, they are being treated like shit.
if theres an easy solution, please elaborate. tough talk doesn't help alot. turkey is not just another state in the game, it's a huge military power.

 

[Rholk]

Not a fan of the Turks or Erdogan in the Syria conflict.....
But this does make sense for them doesnt it