Turkey, the Kurds, and Syria(Kurds Reach Afrin Deal with Syrian Government Forces)

RichardHarrow said:
Russians withdrew and gave the greenlight! Some speculate that Netanyahu deliberately expressed support for the Kurds in order that the arab world would backlash.
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Oh so now withdraw equal blame. It not Russians who do bombing. They against regime changes that war monger CIA do everywhere
 
Seaside said:
Oh so now withdraw equal blame. It not Russians who do bombing. They against regime changes that war monger CIA do everywhere
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A little too pissed off to debate, buddy. I'm sure you can understand.
 
RichardHarrow said:
A little too pissed off to debate, buddy. I'm sure you can understand.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself

Which side try to stabiize syria?

Is it Russia and China who go to war for freedom? Did they do Iraq or many other things?
 
Shit is getting even more Wilson! by the day.

Turkey sees a small chance its military could face US forces in Syria's Manbij

Link Source 1 (Business insider) http://www.businessinsider.com/turk...-could-face-us-forces-in-syrias-manbij-2018-1

Erdogan says to extend Syria operation despite risk of U.S. confrontation

Link Source 2 (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...spite-risk-of-u-s-confrontation-idUSKBN1FD1YD

U.S.-backed Syria force denies Islamic State in area targeted by Turkey

Link Source 3 (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...argeted-by-turkey-idUSKBN1FC12J?ref=hvper.com

Erdogan threatens to extend Afrin operation to Manbij

Link Source 4 (Al Jazeera) http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...hters-killed-syria-afrin-180124082613964.html

Britons volunteering with Syrian-Kurdish militia head to battle with Turkey

Link Source 5 (Telegraph) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-syrian-kurdish-militia-head-battle-turkey/

British men prepare to fight Turkish-led forces in Syria

Link Source 6 (BBC News) http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42799284

About 20 foreign fighters including Americans, Germans, and Britons are joining the YPG to fight against Turkish forces in Afrin.

Link Source 7 (The New Arab) https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...teers-to-fight-against-turkish-force-in-afrin

It’s Time to Kick Erdogan’s Turkey Out of NATO

Link Source 8 (Huffington Post) https://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-weiss/its-time-to-kick-erdogans_b_9300670.html


-------------------------------------------

Snippets from several of the articles below;

President Tayyip Erdogan warned on Wednesday that Turkey would extend its military operation in Syria to the town of Manbij, a move that could potentially bring Turkish forces into confrontation with those of their NATO ally the United States.

Turkey’s air and ground operation, now in its fifth day, targets U.S.-backed Kurdish YPG fighters in the Afrin region and has opened a new front in Syria’s multi-sided civil war. A push toward Manbij some 100 km (60 miles) east of Afrin could threaten U.S. plans to stabilize a swath of northeast Syria.

Differences over Syria policy have already strained Turkey’s relations with Washington almost to breaking point. For the United States, the YPG is a key ally against both Islamic State jihadists and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s forces.

A Turkish operation in Manbij would be fraught with risk due to the presence of U.S. military personnel in and around the town. They were deployed there last March to deter Turkish and U.S.-backed rebels from attacking each other and have also carried out training missions in Manbij.

---------------------------------------------

Turkey’s military, the second largest in NATO, has conducted air strikes and artillery barrages against targets in Afrin, and its soldiers and allied Syrian rebels tried to thrust into the Kurdish-held district from west, north and eastern flanks.

With heavy cloud hindering air support in the last 24 hours, advances have been limited and Kurdish militia have retaken some territory. Turkish troops and the Syrian fighters have been trying to take the summit of Bursaya Hill, overlooking the eastern approach to Afrin town.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based war monitor, said 23 civilians had been killed in Turkish shelling and air strikes, and thousands were fleeing the fighting.

Xelil, the SDF official, said the SDF had killed tens of Turkish forces and allied Free Syrian Army fighters, but said he did not have a precise figure.

----------------------------------------------

The 20-person group is calling itself the Tabûra Şehîd Rûbar.

Amongst the volunteers is twenty-four-year-old British-Chinese fighter Huang Lei. Lei previously travelled to Syria in 2015 to fight against the Islamic State, telling the BBC it was his “duty”.

"There was a desire on the part of the foreign fighters who fought in Raqqa and who are fighting in Deir az-Zour to go to Afrin," senior SDF official Redur Xelil later told Reuters.

He declined to say when the foreigners had gone to Afrin, but said they numbered in the "tens". "They will wage battles against the Turkish invasion," Xelil said.

"There are Americans, Britons, Germans, different nationalities from Europe, Asia and America," Xelil said.

Although international fighters have been involved in the Syrian war for years, this marks a different form of involvement – and entails fighters taking on a sovereign country and NATO member. “This brings up certain legal considerations,” said Michael Stephens, a Middle East analyst from the Royal United Services Institute, in a BBC interview.

Turkey began Operation Olive Branch on Saturday – an air and ground campaign to root out the People’s Protection Units (YPG), a Kurdish militia Turkey considers a terrorist group, in Afrin.

The YPG has a contingent of 8,000 to 10,000 fighters in the 800,000-person city.

Dozens have been killed and at least 5,000 civilians displaced since the operation began last week.

-------------------------------------------

NATO shouldn’t come to Turkey’s defense - instead, it should begin proceedings immediately to determine if the lengthy and growing list of Turkish transgressions against the West, including its support for Islamic terrorists, have merit. And if they do - and they most certainly do - the Alliance’s supreme decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, should formally oust Turkey from NATO for good before its belligerence and continual aggression drags the international community into World War III
 
This shit is bonkers. Feels reminiscent almost of World War I. Accept instead of a arch-duke being killed, it'll just be opposing geo-political ideology for the area clashing with actual military troops being already present on the ground to be the match that lights.
 
I wonder if Turkey / Syrian Government gave SDF the option of peacefully withdrawing through government territory to seperate SDF territory like Manbij. I doubt it though. Syrian government benefits because the rebels and SDG lose manpower in this battle. On the other hand Turkey is most likely going to occupy the entire Afrin region afterwards and whether or not it gets handed back to Syria is in the air. Turkey will want to occupy it as long as possible imo since it gives it a greater ability to suppress Kurdish resistance in that area while controlling both sides of the border.

I don't think allowing Turkey to attack Afrin was a betrayal from the US since Afrin was ever supported by them, only Rojava was. Correct me if I'm wrong. The US was more interested in expanding in the East so that the SDF could control the border crossing between Iraq and Syria than it was in connecting Afrin canton with Rojava canton. The reason Afrin is being attacked in the first place is that it was always militarily strong but politically it was relatively isolated and now that Russia feels secure in its victory in Syria it feels comfortable withdrawing and leaving Afrin to Turkey. IMO Turkey has seen this as an opportunity and told Russia that it will be invading whether they have a presence there or not since Russia won't risk military confrontation over what are technically rebels.

The SDF territory around Manbij is patrolled at the top side by US forces while the west and south sides have Russian and Syrian soldiers. Rumor now is that Russians are withdrawing but the Syrian soldiers are staying. It seems the government would rather the SDF control territory than Turkey.

Interesting twitter thread about Turkish tactics (click on it):


Analysis of Turkish Prospects in this battle:
https://syrianwardaily.wordpress.com/2018/01/23/afrin-offensive-turkish-prospects-23-1-18/

A few things not noted in the article are the bad weather that is expected to last a week to the advantage of the SDF. Also the mountainous terrain is not as much of an advantage as the author thinks imo since while the FSA may not be used to it, TAF fight primarily in the mountains too. Hopefully this ends with negotiations instead of fighting for the last bits of territory.

 
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HomerThompson said:
ANKARA/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkey has killed at least 260 Syrian Kurdish fighters and Islamic State militants in its four-day-old offensive into the Kurdish-dominated Afrin region of northwest Syria, the Turkish military said on Tuesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ers-in-syria-offensive-military-idUSKBN1FC12J
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I don't really have anything to add but this shit is really dangerous. It's going to be difficult for US forces not to clash with Turkish ones.
 
HomerThompson said:
ANKARA/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkey urged the United States on Thursday to halt its support for Kurdish YPG fighters or risk confronting Turkish forces on the ground in Syria, some of Ankara’s strongest comments yet about a potential clash with its NATO ally.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-ypg-or-risk-confrontation-idUSKBN1FE297?il=0

Holy shit. Erdogan is insane.
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Yeah that's pretty intense. I swear I keep refreshing my search screen on Syrian and turkey news.

I (hope) at some point that erdrogan back pedals.....it all falls on Manbij. If he goes there I have no clue what will happen.
 
Btw this thread needs more attention, given the seriousness of all this.
 
Fawlty said:
I don't really have anything to add but this shit is really dangerous. It's going to be difficult for US forces not to clash with Turkish ones.
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There was never a US presence in Afrin nor did it receive support from them. What will be interesting is seeing what happens with Manbij which Erdogan said they would take in mid-March. In the early stages of Euphrates Shield Erdogan kept on threatening Manbij despite them being unable to take it, and demanded all YPG fighters move east of the Euphrates. SDF fighters are the only ones supposed to remain in the Manbij area but YPG didn't fully withdraw. This map looks like it is from the Operation Olive Branch media accounts and paints a good picture of what Turkey desires.
DUOkbb6XUAIHmZp.jpg
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...-attack-on-the-kurds-is-a-betrayal-of-the-u-s

Turkey's Attack on the Kurds Is a Betrayal of the U.S.

The U.S. needs to start imagining NATO without Turkey. The latest reason is Turkey’s assault against the Syrian Kurds. The same Kurds who, with U.S. training and support, have borne the brunt of the fighting against Islamic State. Turkey is coordinating its attacks with Iran and Russia -- the very countries the North Atlantic Treaty Organization exists to oppose. U.S. interests appear nowhere in the equation. That’s a long-term strategic problem, which goes beyond the moral outrage every American should feel as our Kurdish allies are murdered from the air by F-16s we sold to Turkey.
 
Turkey's Erdogan vows to fight Kurdish forces as far as Iraq

Link Source 1 (BBC News) : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42831296

Turkey is prepared to take its fight against Kurdish forces in northern Syria as far east as Iraq, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said.

Speaking in Ankara, Mr Erdogan reiterated that his forces will move against Kurdish-controlled Manbij, which risks confrontation with the US.

US troops are based in the city, which was taken from the Islamic State group (IS) by Kurdish-led forces in 2016.

Turkey launched its operation against the Kurdish militia last weekend.

Backed by pro-Turkish Syrian rebels, Turkish forces attacked the Kurdish enclave of Afrin with the declared aim of driving out the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG).

'Clean up Manbij'
The Turkish president told a meeting of his AK party that he was prepared to expand so-called Operation Olive Branch "until there is no terrorist on our border leading to Iraq".

He said that after Afrin was cleared, "we will, as promised, clean up Manbij of terrorists".

_99760114_syria_control_jan2018_640_map-nc.png

Manbij lies 100 km (60 miles) east of Afrin in YPG-controlled territory. The mainly Arab city is separated from Afrin by an enclave captured from IS by pro-Turkish rebels in a previous Turkish-led operation in 2016.

The US has had soldiers in Manbij since March 2017, when it dissuaded Turkey from attempting to take the city and got the YPG to agree to withdraw east of the River Euphrates.

---------------------------------------

VERY IMPORTANT THREAD THAT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED AND IS CONSTANTLY UPDATED

LINK SOURCE SHERDOG : http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/p...key-shells-kurds-in-afrin-1-19.3691727/page-5

@HomerThompson hopefully this will help that thread gain more traction.
 
Shit is getting even more Wilson! by the day.

Turkey sees a small chance its military could face US forces in Syria's Manbij

Link Source 1 (Business insider) http://www.businessinsider.com/turk...-could-face-us-forces-in-syrias-manbij-2018-1

Erdogan says to extend Syria operation despite risk of U.S. confrontation

Link Source 2 (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...spite-risk-of-u-s-confrontation-idUSKBN1FD1YD

U.S.-backed Syria force denies Islamic State in area targeted by Turkey

Link Source 3 (Reuters) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...argeted-by-turkey-idUSKBN1FC12J?ref=hvper.com

Erdogan threatens to extend Afrin operation to Manbij

Link Source 4 (Al Jazeera) http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...hters-killed-syria-afrin-180124082613964.html

Britons volunteering with Syrian-Kurdish militia head to battle with Turkey

Link Source 5 (Telegraph) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-syrian-kurdish-militia-head-battle-turkey/

British men prepare to fight Turkish-led forces in Syria

Link Source 6 (BBC News) http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42799284

About 20 foreign fighters including Americans, Germans, and Britons are joining the YPG to fight against Turkish forces in Afrin.

Link Source 7 (The New Arab) https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...teers-to-fight-against-turkish-force-in-afrin

It’s Time to Kick Erdogan’s Turkey Out of NATO

Link Source 8 (Huffington Post) https://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-weiss/its-time-to-kick-erdogans_b_9300670.html


-------------------------------------------

Snippets from several of the articles below;

President Tayyip Erdogan warned on Wednesday that Turkey would extend its military operation in Syria to the town of Manbij, a move that could potentially bring Turkish forces into confrontation with those of their NATO ally the United States.

Turkey’s air and ground operation, now in its fifth day, targets U.S.-backed Kurdish YPG fighters in the Afrin region and has opened a new front in Syria’s multi-sided civil war. A push toward Manbij some 100 km (60 miles) east of Afrin could threaten U.S. plans to stabilize a swath of northeast Syria.

Differences over Syria policy have already strained Turkey’s relations with Washington almost to breaking point. For the United States, the YPG is a key ally against both Islamic State jihadists and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s forces.

A Turkish operation in Manbij would be fraught with risk due to the presence of U.S. military personnel in and around the town. They were deployed there last March to deter Turkish and U.S.-backed rebels from attacking each other and have also carried out training missions in Manbij.

---------------------------------------------

Turkey’s military, the second largest in NATO, has conducted air strikes and artillery barrages against targets in Afrin, and its soldiers and allied Syrian rebels tried to thrust into the Kurdish-held district from west, north and eastern flanks.

With heavy cloud hindering air support in the last 24 hours, advances have been limited and Kurdish militia have retaken some territory. Turkish troops and the Syrian fighters have been trying to take the summit of Bursaya Hill, overlooking the eastern approach to Afrin town.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a Britain-based war monitor, said 23 civilians had been killed in Turkish shelling and air strikes, and thousands were fleeing the fighting.

Xelil, the SDF official, said the SDF had killed tens of Turkish forces and allied Free Syrian Army fighters, but said he did not have a precise figure.

----------------------------------------------

The 20-person group is calling itself the Tabûra Şehîd Rûbar.

Amongst the volunteers is twenty-four-year-old British-Chinese fighter Huang Lei. Lei previously travelled to Syria in 2015 to fight against the Islamic State, telling the BBC it was his “duty”.

"There was a desire on the part of the foreign fighters who fought in Raqqa and who are fighting in Deir az-Zour to go to Afrin," senior SDF official Redur Xelil later told Reuters.

He declined to say when the foreigners had gone to Afrin, but said they numbered in the "tens". "They will wage battles against the Turkish invasion," Xelil said.

"There are Americans, Britons, Germans, different nationalities from Europe, Asia and America," Xelil said.

Although international fighters have been involved in the Syrian war for years, this marks a different form of involvement – and entails fighters taking on a sovereign country and NATO member. “This brings up certain legal considerations,” said Michael Stephens, a Middle East analyst from the Royal United Services Institute, in a BBC interview.

Turkey began Operation Olive Branch on Saturday – an air and ground campaign to root out the People’s Protection Units (YPG), a Kurdish militia Turkey considers a terrorist group, in Afrin.

The YPG has a contingent of 8,000 to 10,000 fighters in the 800,000-person city.

Dozens have been killed and at least 5,000 civilians displaced since the operation began last week.

-------------------------------------------

NATO shouldn’t come to Turkey’s defense - instead, it should begin proceedings immediately to determine if the lengthy and growing list of Turkish transgressions against the West, including its support for Islamic terrorists, have merit. And if they do - and they most certainly do - the Alliance’s supreme decision-making body, the North Atlantic Council, should formally oust Turkey from NATO for good before its belligerence and continual aggression drags the international community into World War III
 
Last edited:
Turkey's Erdogan vows to fight Kurdish forces as far as Iraq

Link Source 1 (BBC News) : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42831296

Turkey is prepared to take its fight against Kurdish forces in northern Syria as far east as Iraq, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said.

Speaking in Ankara, Mr Erdogan reiterated that his forces will move against Kurdish-controlled Manbij, which risks confrontation with the US.

US troops are based in the city, which was taken from the Islamic State group (IS) by Kurdish-led forces in 2016.

Turkey launched its operation against the Kurdish militia last weekend.

Backed by pro-Turkish Syrian rebels, Turkish forces attacked the Kurdish enclave of Afrin with the declared aim of driving out the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG).

'Clean up Manbij'
The Turkish president told a meeting of his AK party that he was prepared to expand so-called Operation Olive Branch "until there is no terrorist on our border leading to Iraq".

He said that after Afrin was cleared, "we will, as promised, clean up Manbij of terrorists".

_99760114_syria_control_jan2018_640_map-nc.png

Manbij lies 100 km (60 miles) east of Afrin in YPG-controlled territory. The mainly Arab city is separated from Afrin by an enclave captured from IS by pro-Turkish rebels in a previous Turkish-led operation in 2016.

The US has had soldiers in Manbij since March 2017, when it dissuaded Turkey from attempting to take the city and got the YPG to agree to withdraw east of the River Euphrates.
 
Turkey gonna Turkey.

This sure puts us in an awkward situation.
 
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