True or false: WMMA today is about at the same relative skill level as MMMA was during chuck’s era

[HonkeyStrong]

Lol. Really? It's more like Royce Gracie era level.

This is a much better comparison.

 

[Gamer2k4]

I know I am in the minority, but I do think the whole "MMA has evolved so much from 10 years ago" argument is slightly overplayed. Yes, as time goes on, sports improve because of training and strategy etc. There are plenty of fighters who are successful now who really don't look any different from 10+ years ago. I think Woodley today is worse than GSP was. I don't think Whittaker/Rockhold/Weidman are any better than Anderson. I don't think Stipe or Cormier are lights years ahead of Brock or Rampage/Chuck.

Sure, I would say on average the fighters are better today, but in a sport like MMA that could end up not meaning anything. Being more well rounded does not always = victory. If we are talking the early and mid 90's, then sure, the game was completely different. But the mid 00's until now I don't see a massive change. I just see guys training more disciplines opposed to mastering 1 or 2.

But that's just it. These people are better mixed martial artists, rather than masters at a specific craft. Anderson Silva was a wonder to behold, but he was also fairly one-dimensional. Once he ran into people who didn't blindly chase him and could wrestle, he was in trouble. So Whittaker/Rockhold/Weidman may not be as spectacular as Silva, but they're better fighters all-around.

Another thing to consider is that as the talent level grows, fighters can look more mundane because there's less of a gap between them and their competition. It's why fighters often go on a finishing streak on their way to a title shot, then once they have the title, they get "boring." Sure, part of it may be playing safer, but another substantial part is that they're now consistently facing the absolute best in the world.

 

[listrahtes]

What era would you say wmma is in relative to the history of men’s MMA?

 

[Better Every Day]

False. In every way.

Men's MMA in Chuck's heyday was not only fifteen years old, but it was populated by men who spent their lives in other combat sports - wrestling, boxing, judo, muay thai - that were primarily practiced, and sometimes exclusively practiced, by men.

There are women, like Rose Namajunas, Tecia Torres, etc. who spent their entire lives in combat sports. Both of those women started training at a very very early age.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

its much much much less skilled than that era or any UFC era.

Having personally been to many local amateur MMA events, I can say WMMA is about mens amateur level or worse. Its lower than mens amateur level or its the same.

 

[Better Every Day]

when you have a 21-14 fighter facing 4-2 Fighter for a belt that says it all.

Fight records don't say as much as you think.

 

[Better Every Day]

This is a much better comparison.

Why? Nobody trained mixed-martial arts back then (Royce Gracie era)... mixed martial arts--back then--meant facing off one style against another. Nobody trains or fights that way now.

 

[Luvhawky]

Not even close. Take a look a fight like BigNog/Barnett in 2006 which is IMO one of the highest displays of skill in a mma fight, that fight is a higher level fight than what were seeing now. On the UFCs side there are so many fights, one to mention from the early days, Penn/Pulver which was early 2000s

I'm not a fan of the thread question, but there is no chance a fight from over ten years ago displays more skill than today. Especially considering how much BJJ evolved in the YouTube era and how young the sport is.

As I write this, the only thing that actually may make that true is the injection of athleticism into the pool of talent. Where athleticism would win at the top. But I still find it hard to believe especially considering how evolved both those fighters truly were standing and how more evolved the ground game is today.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness. Just felt like responding that way.

 

[chefa]

Fight records don't say as much as you think.

Fight records actually say a lot, they say you won and lost fights and who you won and lost against.

What these records say to me is

We have a 4-2 fighter fighting for a belt saying that you can basically be an amateur and get a title shot because the talent level is so low that you can walk in and do well

We have a 21-14 fighter which means she has lost 40% of the fights she has been in and when looking at her record for opponents come up short almost every time she has fought any one with some level of skill.

To say these are the best two people in a division shows the overall skill level

Edit: Rather than claim they are the two best people in the division to even say they are at the upper level of the division shows the overall skill level

 

[punkmother]

false. prime chuck with "that look in his eye" one shots every female on the roster in a battle royale.

 

[ScoopSubMMA]

No way its not even close

 

[chiefwiggum]

That's completely true.

We might be at an age of MMA where people in their early 20s or whatever see the "Tito-Chuck" era like a distant lame and slow-mo black-and-white era. It's nonsense: that was yesterday, they were technically really good. The sport went through transitions with BJJ, striking, wrestling and now there is a "fighter homogenisation", but to believe WMMA is as technical, as good as MMA 10, 15 years ago is just wrong.

Just think of the technical level of the BJJ guys who were doing it in the 90s.....no woman in the world is as good as Royce was.

Reading on here over the years people act like fighting was a brand new concept and was created in the 1990s and mixing forms is something that’s been going on for a just a few years.
It’s just really bizarre.


I know mma doesn’t have the history but when I was a young kid. I knew who the great boxers where decades before I was born and I can see yeah these guys are great fighters by any era.

I remeber when guys like Todd duffee were fresh on the scene and these new breed of hws would destroy the established guys said sherdoggers.
Because of bigger muscles and progressive fighting techniques.
Some of those old guard fighters are still top fighters today.

It’s like newer mma fans just want to see good fighters fail and they get pleasure out of it.

Today’s combat sports fans are just fucking nuts

 

[moreorless87]

Theres no doubt that there is a lack of skill in wmma. Alot of 2 dimentional fighters. What era would you say wmma is in relative to the history of men’s MMA? Id say there in a similar position as men’s mma during Chuck Liddell’s prime

It makes me feel old that "Chucks era" is now some mystical ydistant time to new fans were you had to look at cave paintings to get reports on the sport.

I'd say back then(assuming you mean the mid 00's) the better divisions(HW, LHW and LW) had achieved skill levels similar to today. Womens MMA is more like the mens sport in the late 90's I would say, some talented people from other sports involved but often with big holes in their games.

 

[uptheirons!]

I think that's fair. The only reason it looks that much different is just because of the female athleticism compared to men's.

Especially the 115 lb girls, plenty of legitimate skill in that division. Yeah dudes like wanderlei and rampage were decapitating and slamming people through the ring, but skill for skills pertained to MMA I think the girls are about there.

What are you on about? Their skill is below the level of amateur men from 30 years ago LOL

 

[YeahNo]

I'm not a fan of the thread question, but there is no chance a fight from over ten years ago displays more skill than today. Especially considering how much BJJ evolved in the YouTube era and how young the sport is.

As I write this, the only thing that actually may make that true is the injection of athleticism into the pool of talent. Where athleticism would win at the top. But I still find it hard to believe especially considering how evolved both those fighters truly were standing and how more evolved the ground game is today.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness. Just felt like responding that way.

Hmmm.... Evolution of BJJ. Can you tell me 10 chokes today that didn't exist 10 years ago?

 

[BRaVo cHoKe]

I'd say your assessment is fairly accurate, except for mentioning Vitor, as I do not believe there is a woman currently on the roster with no known weaknesses.

I actually had Bethe Correia in my head when I came up with the Vitor part. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Eater of Souls]

No, not the same. While in some cases grappling may be comparable, with maybe two possible exceptions striking in WMMA is no where near the level that MMA was then. While the respective talent pools for women are growing, they still lag far behind, particularly in striking arts (look at women's boxing, with only a few exceptions, it is pretty much a joke, and I am a boxing fan from way back). Grappling is growing steadily, and the athleticism of women entering MMA is improving. Not popular to say some places, but even 20 years ago martial arts wound up being the home for women who pretty much failed at other sports due to a lack of athleticism, but this is one of the things that is changing for the better.

And the biggest difference is that there are one or two notables (or maybe a small handful) at the top of each female class, but where in the men's side of the house the decline in skillset is generally fairly steady, in the women's divisions the decline is a drop-off.

 

[SnowBlynd]

It's light years away from that era. By the liddell era you had guys like yves Edwards and genki sudo doing crazy shit that you don't see in wmma.

 

[Charles Lee Ray]

There are way more crappy male fighters in the UFC than crappy female fighters.

The UFC recently gave us CMPunk and still pack cards with hundreds of meaningless bums that have no business fighting in, what is suppose to be, an elite promotion.

Women's sport has had many teenage phenoms who have become number one in the world. Tons of tennis players, figure skaters, Olympic athletes, Gymnasts, all were only kids. Many also disappeared quickly.

Is it wear and tear, psyche, getting pregnant ... many women have different life goals then men.

The fact that men and women are so different should be celebrated.

 

[Ozze]

What? Hell no.