Tony Ferguson's Bottom Game

[chinarice]

BECAUSE he's a better fighter all-round. That's exactly my point, fuck sake what is wrong with this website!?


Khabib wrestle-fucked him for 15 minutes straight.


Khabib is an elite grappler. Khabib is an average stirker
Ferguson is a good grappler. Ferguson is a good striker.
Both are great fighters.

I agree wtf is wrong with fucking newbs saying Pat fucking Healy is a better grappler than Tony, when there is literally 0, zilch, nada to support this.

Subbed 6 times versus 1 and his sub wins are literally a bunch of scrubs, whereas Tony has subbed some very good fighters and solid grapplers.

Ferguson is a VERY GOOD striker and a VERY GOOD grappler.
Khabib is an elite grappler with average striking at best.

 

[Anon Von Ymous]

Lets go with the obvious in Gleison Tibau, who was subbed Tony but Khabib couldn't even take him down.

He hasn't faced enough grapplers for this argument to even make sense. He'd have to face them and lose for it to make sense. What elite grapplers has Khabib beaten? He's elite because, so far, he has outgrappled all his opponents and has numerous finishes.

There's more to grappling than a quick submission in the first round. Valentina Shlemenko just armbarred Pena in the first round...

The fact that Khabib is able to completely control pretty much everyone shows he's an elite grappler. GSP didn't get many subs, but would you say he isn't an elite grappler?

 

[ewww21]

BECAUSE he's a better fighter all-round. That's exactly my point, fuck sake what is wrong with this website!?


Khabib wrestle-fucked him for 15 minutes straight.


Khabib is an elite grappler. Khabib is an average stirker
Ferguson is a good grappler. Ferguson is a good striker.
Both are great fighters.

Struggling for a TD =/= wrestle fucking im dead

 

[avengedsixfold]

He is.

Are you actually implying he isn't, when he has proven in countless matches that he is?

I'll wait.

If you are an elite grappler Castillo doesn't beat you via grappling.

 

[Anon Von Ymous]

I agree wtf is wrong with fucking newbs saying Pat fucking Healy is a better grappler than Tony, when there is literally 0, zilch, nada to support this.

Subbed 6 times versus 1 and his sub wins are literally a bunch of scrubs, whereas Tony has subbed some very good fighters and solid grapplers.

Ferguson is a VERY GOOD striker and a VERY GOOD grappler.
Khabib is an elite grappler with average striking at best.

Potato, Potato.

My point was that Ferguson is not an ELITE grappler, nor has he out grappled any elite grapplers. Khabib is and has out-grappled everyone.

 

[chinarice]

If you are an elite grappler Castillo doesn't beat you via grappling.

An elite grappler doesn't struggle with Gleison Tibau, when little scrubby grappler Tony subbed him in like 2 minutes.

 

[chinarice]

Potato, Potato.

My point was that Ferguson is not an ELITE grappler, nor has he out grappled any elite grapplers. Khabib is and has out-grappled everyone.

Name one elite grappler Khabib outgrappled. I'll wait for your hilarious bias.

 

[avengedsixfold]

Name 1 grappler that Ferguson has out-grappled...

Khabib out-grapples fucking everyone.

I'm not saying he's not a good grappler, but saying he's an elite grappler is pushing it. He's pretty well-rounded and isn't a specialist in anything, that's what will play in his favour against Khabib.

You've got it buddy, Ferguson has a good to borderline elite scramble submission game. His TDD/TDs are way off from being elite and his bottom game is well rounded but not killer.

If you get hurt by Ferguson though and at some point go down then this is where he shines 100%.

 

[Anon Von Ymous]

Struggling for a TD =/= wrestle fucking im dead

Didn't get the takedowns but still had him against the cage for 3/4 of the fight and reversed/escaped twice when Tibau had his back. There's more to wrestling than just GSP-esque double-legs you know.

 

[ewww21]

There's more to grappling than a quick submission in the first round. Valentina Shlemenko just armbarred Pena in the first round...

The fact that Khabib is able to completely control pretty much everyone shows he's an elite grappler. GSP didn't get many subs, but would you say he isn't an elite grappler?

It isn't a one time anomaly with Ferg like it is with Valentina, so that argument is moot. He consistently does this.

Once again, before Jon Jones had DC's head on his mantle, he was still an elite grappler at LHW just based on his performances. Beating elites isn't what makes you elite.

Consistently dislplaying great grappling makes you elite until proven otherwise. You're argument is working in my favor.

 

[Anon Von Ymous]

Name one elite grappler Khabib outgrappled. I'll wait for your hilarious bias.

Dos Anjos. He rag-dolled him.

 

[ewww21]

Didn't get the takedowns but still had him against the cage for 3/4 of the fight and reversed/escaped twice when Tibau had his back. There's more to wrestling than just GSP-esque double-legs you know.

No shit I know lol. It wasn't wrestlefucking, though. Cain vs. JDS, Texeria vs. Cannonier, Eddie Alvarez vs. Anyone... That's wrestlefucking. It has to be effective and advancement needs to happen.

Stalling agajnst the gate like Hendricks, type shit.

 

[avengedsixfold]

An elite grappler doesn't struggle with Gleison Tibau, when little scrubby grappler Tony subbed him in like 2 minutes.

Jones is no1 for TDD in the UFC, followed jointly by Aldo and Tibau. Tibau has ELITE level TDD and is huge for the weight. Tony hurt him and then got the sub.

 

[chinarice]

Dos Anjos. He rag-dolled him.

lol RDA? When has he shown he had great grappling? When he just held down Pettis, who has looked like complete dogshit for years and has lost almost every fight via being outgrappled?

That same guy that couldn't do a damn thing to Tony in the grappling dept? That is your elite grappler? lol

I'm gonna agree to disagree and move on!

 

[chinarice]

Jones is no1 for TDD in the UFC, followed jointly by Aldo and Tibau. Tibau has ELITE level TDD and is huge for the weight. Tony hurt him and then got the sub.

Soooo, he was outgrappled? Got it.

 

[ewww21]

Dos Anjos. He rag-dolled him.

Dos Anjos is an elite grappler but Ferguson isn't?


Okay lol. They are one in the same.

Is Nate an elite by your standards?

 

[Anon Von Ymous]

It isn't a one time anomaly with Ferg like it is with Valentina, so that argument is moot. He consistently does this.

Once again, before Jon Jones had DC's head on his mantle, he was still an elite grappler at LHW just based on his performances. Beating elites isn't what makes you elite.

Consistently dislplaying great grappling makes you elite until proven otherwise. You're argument is working in my favor.

Then why is the only argument against me in here "Name an elite grappler that Khabib has out-grappled"?

Your point about consistently displaying great grappling just proves MY point in that Khabib grapples against everyone despite their skillset.

Ferguson is a good grappler and a great fighter but he's not an elite grappler, same as he's not an elite striker. Is he an elite overall fighter...yeah probably, but that's down to cumulative skills, not being particularly amazing at any 1 thing.

 

[chinarice]

Then why is the only argument against me in here "Name an elite grappler that Khabib has out-grappled"?

Your point about consistently displaying great grappling just proves MY point in that Khabib grapples against everyone despite their skillset.

Ferguson is a good grappler and a great fighter but he's not an elite grappler, same as he's not an elite striker. Is he an elite overall fighter...yeah probably, but that's down to cumulative skills, not being particularly amazing at any 1 thing.

"yeah probably", he is a great fighter.... wow, just wow.

He has proven himself more than Khabib has and that is an undeniable fact.

 

[avengedsixfold]

Soooo, he was outgrappled? Got it.

Erm no. If you seriously think Tony is a better grappler so be it, your opinion. I think many many people will see Khabib being a far superior and elite grappler. (doesn't mean he'll win the fight though).

 

[bambammccoy]

Ferg is an entertaining fighter, one of the most entertaining in UFC history IMO, but with that said he gives up position alot and gets put in bad spots/held down somewhat regularly atleast when he is facing some serious competition with good grappling.

Ferg's unorthodox grappling style will cost him vs Khabib IMO Ferg has been in too many competitive fights where more holes get exposed each fight it seems though he a lot of the time he shows something new as well.

His overall game is not a good one to fight Khabib or Conor with. His durability, chin, and cardio has gotten him a lot more success in his career than what he should have. I guess the same could be said about a handful of good/great fighters but still it leaves a lot to be desired.