The Official Dragon Ball (Z, GT, S, etc.) Franchise Discussion Thread v3

[DIABOLUS]

Anyone else notice around the 15-second mark in the epi 96 preview, they show a guy from Yadrat? Yadrat is the planet where Goku learned Instant Transmission.

(It's the thumbnail, too)


I'm guessing this is a U6 fighter.

Good catch, I totally missed that myself. So on the Universe 6 team we have three Saiyans, a Yardrat, and Freeza clone. Where the fuck are my Universe 6 planet-raiding Namekians with a "Super-Saiyan"-like transformation???

Would be nice if he somehow got a hold of future trunks and kill him in front of cuck gohan.

Modern Gohan never really formed that bond with Trunks that Future Gohan did. Doubt it would have as much effect compared to attacking Videl and/or Pan.

But I really want to see Cell again. Vegeta, Freeza, and Buu have all gotten plenty of screen time since their defeats. Cell only had cameos in the Buu saga and GT.

And if you think about it, with the Saiyan cells inside of him, Cell might have the ability to learn SSJ Blue.

 

[Horse Style]

Good catch, I totally missed that myself. So on the Universe 6 team we have three Saiyans, a Yardrat, and Freeza clone. Where the fuck are my Universe 6 planet-raiding Namekians with a "Super-Saiyan"-like transformation???



Modern Gohan never really formed that bond with Trunks that Future Gohan did. Doubt it would have as much effect compared to attacking Videl and/or Pan.

But I really want to see Cell again. Vegeta, Freeza, and Buu have all gotten plenty of screen time since their defeats. Cell only had cameos in the Buu saga and GT.

And if you think about it, with the Saiyan cells inside of him, Cell might have the ability to learn SSJ Blue.

Cell's too weak and although he has Freeza's cells, he's not as similar to Freeza as some think. Freeza transforms, at will, to unlock his own power. Cell needed to absorb others, notably the androids, to transform and increase his power.

I don't think if Cell trained for 4 months, 6 months or a year that he'll come close to Golden Freeza. The zenkai boosts were useful in the Cell saga but as Vegeta and Goku showed us, zenkais have little to no effect when you get to a high level of strength.

Besides, Cell was a fanfic-type character to me. Like someone asked "what would happen if we combine the abilities of all our favorite characters into one person?" The ol' chimera trope.

His motivations sucked too. Freeza wanted to rule the universe. Cell didn't really have anything planned after blowing up Earth.

 

[DIABOLUS]

Cell's too weak and although he has Freeza's cells, he's not as similar to Freeza as some think. Freeza transforms, at will, to unlock his own power. Cell needed to absorb others, notably the androids, to transform and increase his power.

I don't think if Cell trained for 4 months, 6 months or a year that he'll come close to Golden Freeza. The zenkai boosts were useful in the Cell saga but as Vegeta and Goku showed us, zenkais have little to no effect when you get to a high level of strength.

Besides, Cell was a fanfic-type character to me. Like someone asked "what would happen if we combine the abilities of all our favorite characters into one person?" The ol' chimera trope.

His motivations sucked too. Freeza wanted to rule the universe. Cell didn't really have anything planned after blowing up Earth.

That Golden transformation was a complete asspull, though. Freeza is blown to bits on Namek, reconstructed as a Cyborg (which is undetermined to be stronger or weaker than his 100% state on Namek) and gets cut to pieces. Spends the next, what? Eleven, twelve years in hell doing absolutely nothing. Then trains for four months and is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue until his cardio runs out? I call bullshit.

Cell achieved "SSJ2" just by blowing himself up. With Freeza's cells in him he also has the potential to achieve something akin to the Golden transformation. And then there's the SS Blue potential in him from Goku and Vegeta's cells. He could just split himself apart and train against himself, spamming those zenkai boosts until he hits that ceiling mentioned previously. Further training might unlock those new transformations, like SSJ3 with Goku, or SS Red with Vegeta. All just speculation, of course.

As far as motivation goes, yes, Freeza wanted to rule the universe. Cell explicitly told the Z-fighters that after he finished destroying the Earth, that he would proceed from planet to planet, destroying everything in his path. Basically for the thrill of it.

 

[Lavitz]

Cell would reach SS Blue level in 1 hour given Supers power creep.

Cell was my favorite DBZ villain. Dude was such a troll and had a great theme.

 

[Horse Style]

That Golden transformation was a complete asspull, though. Freeza is blown to bits on Namek, reconstructed as a Cyborg (which is undetermined to be stronger or weaker than his 100% state on Namek) and gets cut to pieces. Spends the next, what? Eleven, twelve years in hell doing absolutely nothing. Then trains for four months and is stronger than Super Saiyan Blue until his cardio runs out? I call bullshit.

Cell achieved "SSJ2" just by blowing himself up. With Freeza's cells in him he also has the potential to achieve something akin to the Golden transformation. And then there's the SS Blue potential in him from Goku and Vegeta's cells. He could just split himself apart and train against himself, spamming those zenkai boosts until he hits that ceiling mentioned previously. Further training might unlock those new transformations, like SSJ3 with Goku, or SS Red with Vegeta. All just speculation, of course.

As far as motivation goes, yes, Freeza wanted to rule the universe. Cell explicitly told the Z-fighters that after he finished destroying the Earth, that he would proceed from planet to planet, destroying everything in his path. Basically for the thrill of it.

Freeza's transformations are his species' way of suppressing and raising their power level and that goes for his Golden Form. His Golden Form just means he's going 100%. He also implied he himself can manipulate how his forms look and his chose the gold color to mock SSJ.

Cell's transformations aren't tapping into power he already has. It's the byproduct of him stealing the power of others. Freeza training to achieve Golden Form and match SSB is him unlocking his own hidden potential (like Gohan). There is nothing implying Cell has hidden potential. If he did, he wouldn't have gone to such lengths to get the Androids.

A lot of the fandom have a problem with Freeza's power jump from 4 months of training even though it's JUST. LIKE. GOHAN.

Gohan went from insignificant to SSJ2, whipping Cell's ass in one saga. Then in the Buu saga, he went from getting curbstomped by Fat Buu to beating Super Buu half to death just by sitting around for a day, allowing someone to unlock his power.

That's one day compared to 4 months and Gohan, pre-training (before Piccolo) is an ant compared to Freeza, pre-training (Namek).

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

Whis said evenly matched. That means Goku is far more powerful than Freeza. .

Read your sentence again lol

I dont care what Whis says btw. Frieza was able to escape the God of Destruction energy while Goku was unable to.

And in the fight they had Frieza knocked goku out of blue mode while goku did not knock frieza out of golden mode

SSJBKaioken lasts for like 10 seconds. Its not enough

 

[heavyarms21]

Read your sentence again lol

I dont care what Whis says btw. Frieza was able to escape the God of Destruction energy while Goku was unable to.

And in the fight they had Frieza knocked goku out of blue mode while goku did not knock frieza out of golden mode

Goku also didn't use Kaioken .... so it's kinda indecisive ...plus ... Goku by Toriyama/Toei armor . Frieza about to get sonned by Jirren.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

Goku also didn't use Kaioken .... so it's kinda indecisive ...plus ... Goku by Toriyama/Toei armor . Frieza about to get sonned by Jirren.

Speaking of Jirren

His character design is extremely lazy

He looks like shit

 

[MMouse]

Speaking of Jirren

His character design is extremely lazy

He looks like shit

a lot of them do.

Z was at its peaked with it's villan desgins canon or non canon

 

[heavyarms21]

Speaking of Jirren

His character design is extremely lazy

He looks like shit

I don't like the Pride Trooper outfit in General. I blame Toei I feel like they influence Toriyama with complaints, several animators there say they are against including characters with difficult character designs, fucking lazy. Think about Toei owns both Super and One Piece the two most popular anime in Japan but the animation they put out is madly inconsistent hell most of the time it's jist straight up bad. For Comparisons sake look at Studio Madhouse a much smaller studio that did One Punch Man and everyone of those episodes was animated beautifully.

 

[Lavitz]

a lot of them do.

Z was at its peaked with it's villan desgins canon or non canon

Black(anime) was awesome though.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

I don't like the Pride Trooper outfit in General. I blame Toei I feel like they influence Toriyama with complaints, several animators there say they are against including characters with difficult character designs, fucking lazy. Think about Toei owns both Super and One Piece the two most popular anime in Japan but the animation they put out is madly inconsistent hell most of the time it's jist straight up bad. For Comparisons sake look at Studio Madhouse a much smaller studio that did One Punch Man and everyone of those episodes was animated beautifully.

OPM is fantastic

 

[Heelhook71]

Freeza's transformations are his species' way of suppressing and raising their power level and that goes for his Golden Form. His Golden Form just means he's going 100%. He also implied he himself can manipulate how his forms look and his chose the gold color to mock SSJ.

Cell's transformations aren't tapping into power he already has. It's the byproduct of him stealing the power of others. Freeza training to achieve Golden Form and match SSB is him unlocking his own hidden potential (like Gohan). There is nothing implying Cell has hidden potential. If he did, he wouldn't have gone to such lengths to get the Androids.

A lot of the fandom have a problem with Freeza's power jump from 4 months of training even though it's JUST. LIKE. GOHAN.

Gohan went from insignificant to SSJ2, whipping Cell's ass in one saga. Then in the Buu saga, he went from getting curbstomped by Fat Buu to beating Super Buu half to death just by sitting around for a day, allowing someone to unlock his power.

That's one day compared to 4 months and Gohan, pre-training (before Piccolo) is an ant compared to Freeza, pre-training (Namek).

From the beginning of Z Gohan's hidden power was hinted at. Piccolo and Goku trained their whole lives, and then Gohan aged 4 gets angry and for a split second passes them both in power.

He shows glimpses of it again against Nappa then a few times on namek. He's taps into that power and puts a beating on Freeza (pre final form).

So when his power was partially unlocked against Cell and then fully unlocked against Buu it wasn't pulled out of nowhere. Every saga he was in led to that point.

 

[Horse Style]

From the beginning of Z Gohan's hidden power was hinted at. Piccolo and Goku trained their whole lives, and then Gohan aged 4 gets angry and for a split second passes them both in power.

He shows glimpses of it again against Nappa then a few times on namek. He's taps into that power and puts a beating on Freeza (pre final form).

So when his power was partially unlocked against Cell and then fully unlocked against Buu it wasn't pulled out of nowhere. Every saga he was in led to that point.

Umm ok. My posted didn't suggest Gohan's hidden potential came out of nowhere. Part my post is saying Freeza has a lot of hidden potential just like Gohan and he unlocked it through training just like Gohan.

The difference is that Gohan before any training was no where near Freeza before Freeza started training. 4-year old Gohan's angry charge Raditz was around 1200. Freeza's pre-training max power was 120,000,000. 10,000x stronger.

So seeing how far Gohan progressed when he trained, it's not a stretch to have Freeza make such a huge leap considering his starting line.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Damn I bet the tournament won't even start next week

20 minutes of intros

 

[Emporio Alnino]

that goku/freeza scene shitted on anything that happened during ROF.

 

[5crew]

He broke out of portion of Sidra energy and was clearly exhausted. Sidra kills him.

Still probably the weakest GoD from worst universe.

It was only a small amount of Sidra's energy. Freeza still struggled to overcome it. A full blown Hakai would probably erase Freeza. Beerus casually blowing the energy away still shows the gap between regular mortals and GoDs.

And I'm pretty sure Goku and Vegeta don't recieve Zenkais anymore.

I don't think Freeza is stronger than Sidra. Freeza struggled to contain that energy of destruction which Sidra created without any effort.

The term for saiyan growing stronger after a near-death experience is called "zenkai boost".

I guess I got too excited about Frieza improvements that I didn't think it through clearly before claiming Frieza could be stronger than some GoDs, namingly U9 one; Sidra.

Have it been mentioned that Goku and Vegeta can't receive Zenkais anymore?

 

[AlphaBetaShark]

Anyone here a fan of Absalon? It's a fan made showl that takes place several years after the end of GT. It has some fight scenes that are better than Super.

 

[Doomer]

Read your sentence again lol

I dont care what Whis says btw. Frieza was able to escape the God of Destruction energy while Goku was unable to.

And in the fight they had Frieza knocked goku out of blue mode while goku did not knock frieza out of golden mode

SSJBKaioken lasts for like 10 seconds. Its not enough

Or you read again why I wrote that.

They both knocked each other out. Goku can also go SSBKKx2 or x4... with all power, Goku murders Freeza. With SSBKKx10 utter destruction. He is far more powerful than Freeza.

Freeza stands no chance against Goku.

And you will see a huge gap between them in ToP. Freeza no chance against Goku.

 

[DIABOLUS]

Freeza's transformations are his species' way of suppressing and raising their power level and that goes for his Golden Form. His Golden Form just means he's going 100%. He also implied he himself can manipulate how his forms look and his chose the gold color to mock SSJ.

Cell's transformations aren't tapping into power he already has. It's the byproduct of him stealing the power of others. Freeza training to achieve Golden Form and match SSB is him unlocking his own hidden potential (like Gohan). There is nothing implying Cell has hidden potential. If he did, he wouldn't have gone to such lengths to get the Androids.

A lot of the fandom have a problem with Freeza's power jump from 4 months of training even though it's JUST. LIKE. GOHAN.

Gohan went from insignificant to SSJ2, whipping Cell's ass in one saga. Then in the Buu saga, he went from getting curbstomped by Fat Buu to beating Super Buu half to death just by sitting around for a day, allowing someone to unlock his power.

That's one day compared to 4 months and Gohan, pre-training (before Piccolo) is an ant compared to Freeza, pre-training (Namek).

All great and valid points and I agree with pretty much everything. And while it is true that most of his abilities and power were stolen from others, you could apply pretty much the same argument to Buu as well. When Imperfect Cell fought Piccolo and drained his arm, Piccolo was able to regenerate it. This was a technique Cell was unaware of (despite possessing the genetic potential for it). He immediately co-opted the technique and used it to great effect himself throughout the saga until he was killed by Gohan.

And yes, his stronger transformations were the result of absorbing others, but his return from self-destruction was a definite zenkai boost, suggesting he does indeed possess that Saiyan trait. Add on top of that learning the Instant Transmission, a technique that Goku did not possess when his DNA was sampled for Cell's makeup. Basically I'm just trying to say that Cell has definite potential to grow stronger, as well as learn new techniques. So I could definitely envision a scenario in Super whereby he becomes relevant again.

It almost certainly won't happen, though, because the Goku/Freeza rivalry is too great and popular.

Speaking of Jirren

His character design is extremely lazy

He looks like shit

Yeah it is. Toppo has got to be the stupidest design, though.

Have it been mentioned that Goku and Vegeta can't receive Zenkais anymore?

I vaguely recall something along these lines. Was it Vegeta saying they'd hit the limits of Saiyan biology, and that only training could take them to the next level?