The 0 carb diet

[MikeMartial]

I seem to get in a bad mood every time I open this thread.

I look forward to seeing how this thread develops. With the amount of posters chiming in, the number of viewpoints makes for a very dynamic conversation.

 

[mobeck]

^^^^^^
The best part about this thread is how innocently it started and how quickly heated it became.
It's like a metaphor for growing up...*sigh*:icon_chee

one of my jiu jitsu buddies did the 0 carb diet for 2 weeks as a detox and he lost about 15-20lbs. he trained like twice a day and lived off of red meat, cheese and whipped cream (not together). he lost the weight and looked cut, but he slept a LOT and never had any energy. he said several times he felt like he was dying. what does everyone think? is the end result worth feeling like shit 24/7 for 2 weeks straight?

 

[Ziltoid]

What a thread! It was going one way and then took a sudden turn. Nevertheless...I enjoy this thread. I actually learned alot and its good to see well informed and intelligent people on here debating. this thread is a very interesting read.

 

[WCLegend90]

The dude was simply trying to make a valid point. We truly know little and everyone is different. I'd say there are almost no scientific studies to back any of the diets that people use on here. This thread has let out a ton of arrogance on both sides.

Can you point me to any valid long term studies that back a high whey/casein protein, low fat, high fish oil, high fruits/vegetables, plus Greens + diet? No, but you can definitely find diets that use those things and that show promise. But is there a study on the combination and how they work together in the long term? No. (at least to my knowledge.) Most of the studies we read are near worthless, high fiber might be necessary for one diet but maybe not necessary at all for another. Just because a bunch of people who have a totally different overall diet than us may live until 90, doesn't mean that if we add the things they are eating to our diet will matter at all.

Also, that guy was responding to someone being just as immature, with awesome comments like "Good luck blindly following someone on the internet.", which is clearly not what the person was advocating.

Actually, can you point me to ANY long term studies reflecting the lifestyle and diet of a proto-typical athlete? Almost all of us go off of what makes us feel healthy and the results we get from our diets. We can claim that we base everything on science, but most of the time it's about how we feel. (which often coincides with science, but also can veer off quite a bit.)

Too many people act like there is a science proven "perfect" diet for everyone. It simply doesn't exist yet. The data isn't there.

uhhhh.......

Low Fat....High Fish Oil?

 

[noise666]

Insulin is not "very bad for the body"...it's a necessary component to your physiology if you wish to stay alive.

See it's that sort of thing that people dislike.

I'd like for you to take note of something. Go back to the beginning of my involvement in this thread, it's only like 2 or 3 pages ago. NOT ONCE do I ever condemn solkanar for doing this to himself. Not once do I say he shouldn't. Rather the only objection I've had with regards to the attempt, is recommending it to other people. That's where I draw the line. Same went for noise666 and his veganism. You want to do something that goes against basic standards and claim it makes you a better person? That's fine. But if you have no reasonable proof of premise by which to recommend others do it, then there's a problem.

Ha, thanks for the shout out KK. Now you know I've stated a number of times how veganism worked for me, and many others I know. So I think we're on the same page there. I would never tell someone that veganism is the only way to eat and everyone should do it. That's not to say it wouldn't be beneficial to many things but I don't believe in pushing my views or actions on others in that militant/egotistical sort of way.

That being said, yes - I've most definitely recommended vegan eating habits to people that have asked questions about high cholesterol, and things of that nature. I've also said a vegan diet can be done very poorly just like any other diet. Further more, the word 'diet' is what I feel is wrong with a lot of people's thinking. We've been over this though, and I'm not starting anything. In fact, I agree with everything that I've read from you in this thread. You know me, I'm a fiber junky! Ha!

 

[Sig]

haha this is great. Still not one post from someone who has tried this for over a month and reported negative results or even a link to a story or anything! Yet, theres has been 2 people in this thread who have tried it and had only positive results, another who is currently trying it and feeling great, and a link to another guy who is 70 something (and IMO looks more like 50 but KK disagrees ) whos been doing it for most of his life and is apparently healthy (average human life expectancy is 70 something). I mean i dunno what more you guys want. maybe solk is full of shit. maybe the others guys that said they did this and it worked and they stayed healthly are full of shit, maybe loksxronin is full of shit for saying hes trying this and feeling good, maybe that 70 year old guy is full of shit. but fuck man, when will it be good enough for you guys? when will you start to believe that hmmm, maybe since all these people who are on this diet and feel great, have lost weight, and are apparently healthy, it's not so farfetched? Where are all the people who are on this diet and all fat and unhealthy like they should be according to your logic?

And KK, i honestly believe you are being too harsh on Solk about him being a martyr or preacher or whatever. go back to the first page of this thread. He was simply sharing his experience to help someone answer their question about a 0 carb diet. It was the other posters that were shocked and amazing and bombarded him with questions that made him open up with his more personal beliefs about nutrition. If no one asked him about it, this is all he would have posted....

"I've followed a zero-carb WOE for almost 4 years now. He was obviously not eating enough calories and not getting enough fat. He was experiencing ketosis which goes away after a few weeks. It may not be the best diet for training that much unless he is spending a shitload of time and money on food. I usually eat between 3-5 pounds of red meat a day and 12-24 eggs."

why would he lie about it? why do you think he is full of shit and there must be something wrong with him if he has been following this for 4 years? I sure hope you show the same amount of scrutiny to a poster who shows up and says they've been on this diet for a while now and have gained fat, felt like shit, and have been told by a doctor they were extremely unhealthy. No where in that post (or in any of his post for that matter) does he highly recommend this diet cause its the only way to go. If anything, he just cautions people and gives helpful advice to any that would like to try it if they decide its something they want to do.

Lastly about the whole "Solks lying about the price of meat" thing. Solk states "It can get expensive. I'm good friends with my local butcher as I used to work with him 15 years ago. I get well marbled black angus cryovac'd ribeye for $4.50/lb which is quite a deal." Its obvious theres more than a few posters in this thread lacking reading comprehension but seriously quit trying to discredit the diet by destroying Solks credibility. Its getting quite pathetic. This isnt a fucking court of law, its a public forum, no one is pushing this diet on anyone, and still no one has went out and tried this diet and reported negative results.

/endrant

 

[elbowsmash]

I seem to get in a bad mood every time I open this thread.

i get in a good mood.

if you read his stuff its pretty funny how he counters arguments. he even claims to own a cow that give him his fresh dairy every day. dunno if boston is very rural, or if he just keeps it in his garage next to his bently. maybe he helicopters out to his farm every three days to pick up unpastuerized milk from his cow betty (yes that is the actual name he gave his cow).

 

[elbowsmash]

btw about the price of meat, i admitted i was wrong when someone pointed out that you indeed can buy ny strip for about 6 bucks.

but im calling out all the bullshit in the thread. and so far, no real answers to his outlandish claims about cancer, dietary fat storage, etc etc.

dude claims to even own a cow, maybe he does. just one bullshit type lie wouldn't set off my bullshit meter, but the combined amount makes it too much to ignore.

 

[T_Money_]

No I'm not saying the exact same thing. I never made broad statements about ALL diets. I don't know if I, personally, can eat what he eats and be perfectly alright. What works for him may not work for me and vice versa. There are so many variables that need to be taken into account, ie: age, gender, ethnicity, genetics etc.

Okay, so you are agreeing that this working is possible, or at least that it's working for him right? If that's true, and you really care about knowledge, why aren't you trying to figure out ways that this could work, instead of only trying to disprove it's ability?

 

[T_Money_]

This is great example and a bad example. First, it's great because hell yeah I find your uncles health to be hella interesting and would love it if he could go under testing and we could try to find out how he's pulling this off. Even if he said that the reason he doesn't have cancer is because he eats tv dinners, it would only make me say "Well I don't know about that, but I'd love to get some test results on this." Because that is the point that you totally miss. Because he says things about fiber and cancer and whatnot that you don't believe you get all pissy and then discount that he's alive and well from only eating meat and eggs. And calling him a liar because because his "beliefs" (and this could be all they are, maybe he doesn't have a source and he just believes it, I don't know or care) don't match up with what you think is true, is getting old. Go back and check how this whole thing started. Again, you really believe that someone who has over 1000 completely unrelated posts and has been on here for over a year is just gonna suddenly decide to make up some lie because he wants to say that zero-carb can work for some reason?

It's a bad example, however, because we believe that for the vast majority of people, smoking and eating that shit will make you die much quicker. There have never been any studies (as I'm sure you are aware) on what solk is doing, only anecdotal stories and accounts of inuits, etc. ALL of which, I might add are positive.

 

[T_Money_]

haha this is great. Still not one post from someone who has tried this for over a month and reported negative results or even a link to a story or anything! Yet, theres has been 2 people in this thread who have tried it and had only positive results, another who is currently trying it and feeling great, and a link to another guy who is 70 something (and IMO looks more like 50 but KK disagrees ) whos been doing it for most of his life and is apparently healthy (average human life expectancy is 70 something). I mean i dunno what more you guys want. maybe solk is full of shit. maybe the others guys that said they did this and it worked and they stayed healthly are full of shit, maybe loksxronin is full of shit for saying hes trying this and feeling good, maybe that 70 year old guy is full of shit. but fuck man, when will it be good enough for you guys? when will you start to believe that hmmm, maybe since all these people who are on this diet and feel great, have lost weight, and are apparently healthy, it's not so farfetched? Where are all the people who are on this diet and all fat and unhealthy like they should be according to your logic?

And KK, i honestly believe you are being too harsh on Solk about him being a martyr or preacher or whatever. go back to the first page of this thread. He was simply sharing his experience to help someone answer their question about a 0 carb diet. It was the other posters that were shocked and amazing and bombarded him with questions that made him open up with his more personal beliefs about nutrition. If no one asked him about it, this is all he would have posted....

"I've followed a zero-carb WOE for almost 4 years now. He was obviously not eating enough calories and not getting enough fat. He was experiencing ketosis which goes away after a few weeks. It may not be the best diet for training that much unless he is spending a shitload of time and money on food. I usually eat between 3-5 pounds of red meat a day and 12-24 eggs."

why would he lie about it? why do you think he is full of shit and there must be something wrong with him if he has been following this for 4 years? I sure hope you show the same amount of scrutiny to a poster who shows up and says they've been on this diet for a while now and have gained fat, felt like shit, and have been told by a doctor they were extremely unhealthy. No where in that post (or in any of his post for that matter) does he highly recommend this diet cause its the only way to go. If anything, he just cautions people and gives helpful advice to any that would like to try it if they decide its something they want to do.

Lastly about the whole "Solks lying about the price of meat" thing. Solk states "It can get expensive. I'm good friends with my local butcher as I used to work with him 15 years ago. I get well marbled black angus cryovac'd ribeye for $4.50/lb which is quite a deal." Its obvious theres more than a few posters in this thread lacking reading comprehension but seriously quit trying to discredit the diet by destroying Solks credibility. Its getting quite pathetic. This isnt a fucking court of law, its a public forum, no one is pushing this diet on anyone, and still no one has went out and tried this diet and reported negative results.

/endrant

Missed this post the first time, glad I didn't the second time. +1

 

[Lubaolong]

Ha, thanks for the shout out KK. Now you know I've stated a number of times how veganism worked for me, and many others I know. So I think we're on the same page there. I would never tell someone that veganism is the only way to eat and everyone should do it. That's not to say it wouldn't be beneficial to many things but I don't believe in pushing my views or actions on others in that militant/egotistical sort of way.

That being said, yes - I've most definitely recommended vegan eating habits to people that have asked questions about high cholesterol, and things of that nature. I've also said a vegan diet can be done very poorly just like any other diet. Further more, the word 'diet' is what I feel is wrong with a lot of people's thinking. We've been over this though, and I'm not starting anything. In fact, I agree with everything that I've read from you in this thread. You know me, I'm a fiber junky! Ha!

The difference is there is an overwhelming amount of research supporting veganism/vegetarianism, but I have yet to see any on 100% meat diets, veggies cause cancer, etc.

 

[T_Money_]

The difference is there is an overwhelming amount of research supporting veganism/vegetarianism, but I have yet to see any on 100% meat diets, veggies cause cancer, etc.

seriously, seriously, I mean seriously? Maybe that's because they've never freaking been done.

edit: because I really doubt your ability to make logical jumps, I'll put it another way. Before those studies on veganism/vegetarianism were done, were those diets rendered useless?

edit #2: Vegans and vegeterians being pissed about solks "outlandish" claims because they are refuted by science is absolutely hilarious. For obvious reasons.

 

[mobeck]

Okay, so you are agreeing that this working is possible, or at least that it's working for him right? If that's true, and you really care about knowledge, why aren't you trying to figure out ways that this could work, instead of only trying to disprove it's ability?

What you are doing in this thread is jumping in without having read everything, pointing fingers, accusing people of saying and doing certain things without having looked at everything everyone has said thus far. On top of that, you are doing it in a brash and inconsiderate manner.

I have simply been stating my concerns with this type of diet and I've been calling into question some of the statements Solk has made. I don't think that this is uncalled for or unjust or thick-headed the way you are making it out to be. Let me give you an example:

Earlier in the thread, myself and some others expressed concern that people might attempt this diet based on the claims made here. While it sounds like the diet works for Solkanar just fine, there are so many other factors to consider like genetics, lifestyle etc. It's hard to say that what works for Solk will be safe and healthy for someone else. However, despite this, I believe Loksxronin is trying this diet out. While I personally don't think it's a good idea, I'm interested to see the results. Here is the link to his 'journal' again:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=511983

So please, read what people have to say instead of jumping to conclusions based on posts that you take completely out of context. This will make for a much more efficient discussion.

On a side note, Loks' journal describes that since starting the diet, he's suffered from Diarrhea a couple of times. However it's unclear whether this stems from the diet itself or his intake of dairy products. Any updates on this Loks?

 

[loksxronin]

I just thought of something.

With the inuits eating berries and roots during the summer, were they attempting to put on weight? this behaviour is prevalent in animals in the region (fattening up during spring, summer and fall for the winter) so why not humans?

Are there any studies done showing exactly what micronutrients are in meat?

Also, with no studies done on the 0 carb no meat diet its impossible to quote anything for counter arguments. So of course Solk is using his own experiences, how could he quote a study that doesn't exist?

Also I see no reason to insult his credibility, like the other posters have said, he simply provided information, he wasn't pushing his diet or even suggesting other people try it.

 

[mobeck]

^^^^

How's the diet going so far?

 

[loksxronin]

I'm feeling fine.

I need to get better meat though, the grease is giving me gut issues. Its the sausage I've been eating its nasty :S I'm going to drop by the butchers tomorrow hopefully and pick up some proper meat. The processed stuff clearly isn't a good idea in this kind of quantitys.

Other than that any change in how I'm feeling is safely attributed to working full count the other night followed by an early morning (4 hours of sleep) those would be tiredness, feeling drained, my legs are feeling a bit weak (yesterday, much better today) and I have a boil starting up on my shoulder (that could be diet related too, my immune system does glitchy things when theres stress on the system ie lack of sleep or extreme diet change)

I'm giving it 1 month trial. all the reports written on it said it takes 3 weeks to adjust to it. I'll give it 1 week after that 3 week trial and if I'm still experiencing any possibly related negative symptoms I'll stop.

 

[mobeck]

I'm feeling fine.

I need to get better meat though, the grease is giving me gut issues. Its the sausage I've been eating its nasty :S I'm going to drop by the butchers tomorrow hopefully and pick up some proper meat. The processed stuff clearly isn't a good idea in this kind of quantitys.

Other than that any change in how I'm feeling is safely attributed to working full count the other night followed by an early morning (4 hours of sleep) those would be tiredness, feeling drained, my legs are feeling a bit weak (yesterday, much better today) and I have a boil starting up on my shoulder (that could be diet related too, my immune system does glitchy things when theres stress on the system ie lack of sleep or extreme diet change)

I'm giving it 1 month trial. all the reports written on it said it takes 3 weeks to adjust to it. I'll give it 1 week after that 3 week trial and if I'm still experiencing any possibly related negative symptoms I'll stop.

Thanks for the update man. It's definitely very helpful to this thread to have you around. Keep us posted!

 

[Pap Smear]

lox, what type of meat u eating? i started with raw meat this morning and i have a surprising amount of energy . I picked up a bunch of strip steak. My plan is to eat one strip steak in the morning before school, one when i get home from school wich is around 2 , and one at night around 7 .each steak is about 8 ounces that i measure . So far all is well, i have a shitload of energy. Its suprisingly nice. my official starting weight is 221 ponds. all is excellent thus far ill keep everyone postede.

 

[Forsaken]

Also, with no studies done on the 0 carb no meat diet its impossible to quote anything for counter arguments. So of course Solk is using his own experiences, how could he quote a study that doesn't exist?

And his claims on breast cancer and fiber's effect on intestine?


I don't think those can be proven by experience.