The 0 carb diet

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I know that raw meat has water content in it and when it is cooked the water drains out. im basing some of this raw meat diet after what ive read about aajonus vonderplanitz. i juss got done reading his book we want to live and it was fabulous. here is an interview wit him check it out
http://drbass.com/aajonus.html

hunger has been great man im not hungry or thristy at all whatsoever which is very weird because im usually always hungry. i think solk was very right in that sense that carbs are what raises bllod sugar and makes someone hungry. im probably consuming between 1000-1200 calories a day eating the 3 small steaks a day that i am. im trying to lose a bunch of weight right now. ive been reading up on no carb/low carb diets for a while now, this is my 1st time trying it

That raw stuff scares me, better safe than sorry.

But, you will lose a TON of weight if keep it up. Nobody knows the long term effects, period, but that's the same for most diets. (especially when different physiologies are taken into account.) Keep us posted. I know when I have gone Keto in the past, I shit just fine, even better than when I eat a normal diet. (Nice, solid banana shaped craps.)

One thing, drink more water. I would lose all thirst when on Keto, I had to force myself to drink. I found it made my early phase headaches go away.
 
What you are doing in this thread is jumping in without having read everything, pointing fingers, accusing people of saying and doing certain things without having looked at everything everyone has said thus far. On top of that, you are doing it in a brash and inconsiderate manner.

I have simply been stating my concerns with this type of diet and I've been calling into question some of the statements Solk has made. I don't think that this is uncalled for or unjust or thick-headed the way you are making it out to be. Let me give you an example:



So please, read what people have to say instead of jumping to conclusions based on posts that you take completely out of context. This will make for a much more efficient discussion.

What in the hell are you talking about? So you know what I've read and haven't now? I've read this whole damn thread buddy and you have in no way been politely bring up questions or whatever BS you're trying to cover-up your comments with. You've been saying that this diet WILL NOT WORK. Need examples?

"Fat does produce energy, and lots of it, yes. However it's oxidation is slow, therefore it is really the main source of energy at rest and during LOW intensity exercise. MMA and most fighting arts discussed on these forums are not low intensity. At instensities reaching 70-80% of V02 max, there is a shift from fat to carbohydrate as the preferred fuel source. If you don't have enough blood glucose and muscle glycogen available, your performance at these high intensities will suffer greatly."

so he's lying about being able to train hard....

"If you are consuming a high fat diet, fine, but you need to balance it out. In reading the article I had posted above regarding fiber, you would see that it has a significant effect on cholesterol levels."

he's lying about having good cholesterol levels....

"What I'm saying is that a diet which is high in saturated fat needs to be accompanied by fiber to quell these problems associated with high fat diets. You are kidding yourself if you don't think an all meat diet is not high in saturated fat."

he's going to die soon from heart disease, etc, etc.

"You are obviously an intelligent guy, so I don't understand how you can think that having a new york steak with eggs and butter everyday is a healthy way to eat, especially in the absence of vegetables and fruit and whole grains etc. "

this diet is unhealthy....

I could keep going that was only p. 3 and 4 of this thread.
 
Found an article: Influence of Diet Composition on Caloric Requirements, Water Intake and Organ Weights of Rats During Restricted Food Intake (opens into pdf).

It's a study of three restrictive diets on rats: high fat, high protein, and high carbs. The high fat diet showed a significant decrease in water intake, high protein showed some decrease, and high carbs decreased the least. Page 225 shows a detailed chart of the results as well.

Also, your body needs much more than 1000-1200 calories; a 150lb male needs roughly 1800 calories just for BMR alone. Even if you're sedentary, you're creating a huge deficit that is unhealthy and potentially dangerous. And from personal experience with the mid and long-term result, you really don't want to go there, ever.

Find out how much calories you need to maintain weight with everything you're doing and then create a 200-500 deficit. It may take longer for you to reach your goal but it's safer and more effective long-term. Seriously reconsider.
 
hunger has been great man im not hungry or thristy at all whatsoever which is very weird because im usually always hungry. i think solk was very right in that sense that carbs are what raises bllod sugar and makes someone hungry. im probably consuming between 1000-1200 calories a day eating the 3 small steaks a day that i am. im trying to lose a bunch of weight right now. ive been reading up on no carb/low carb diets for a while now, this is my 1st time trying it

I thought you said you were eating 3 8oz steaks. Unless you are eating ultra lean steak (which would be completely against what solk said) you're going to be eating more than 1200 cals. Dear god I'm actually scared now because what KK said may be coming true about people trying to do this and not having a clue what they're doing. You are trying to follow the 80/20 F/P ratio right, pap? Maybe add some unprocessed butter on your steaks or something.
 
1000-1200 is what nicole ritchie consumes when she is on a diet

this is bad news. especially for a guy who weighs 221 and is 6 feet tall.

forget the steak, you're gonna go into a coma eating a diet like that devoid of calories. you know protein without fat can poison you if you eat too much of that.
 
What in the hell are you talking about? So you know what I've read and haven't now? I've read this whole damn thread buddy and you have in no way been politely bring up questions or whatever BS you're trying to cover-up your comments with. You've been saying that this diet WILL NOT WORK. Need examples?

"If you are consuming a high fat diet, fine, but you need to balance it out. In reading the article I had posted above regarding fiber, you would see that it has a significant effect on cholesterol levels."

he's lying about having good cholesterol levels....

"What I'm saying is that a diet which is high in saturated fat needs to be accompanied by fiber to quell these problems associated with high fat diets. You are kidding yourself if you don't think an all meat diet is not high in saturated fat."

he's going to die soon from heart disease, etc, etc.

"You are obviously an intelligent guy, so I don't understand how you can think that having a new york steak with eggs and butter everyday is a healthy way to eat, especially in the absence of vegetables and fruit and whole grains etc. "

this diet is unhealthy....

I could keep going that was only p. 3 and 4 of this thread.

I don't understand your argument here...all these quotes you listed are simply me stating my opinion on what is healthy and unhealthy in a diet...many people here have done the same thing, including Solkanar...When did I state that "the diet will not work"?

T_Money_ said:
"Fat does produce energy, and lots of it, yes. However it's oxidation is slow, therefore it is really the main source of energy at rest and during LOW intensity exercise. MMA and most fighting arts discussed on these forums are not low intensity. At instensities reaching 70-80% of V02 max, there is a shift from fat to carbohydrate as the preferred fuel source. If you don't have enough blood glucose and muscle glycogen available, your performance at these high intensities will suffer greatly."

so he's lying about being able to train hard....

According to bioenergetics, not having adequate carbohydrates and glycogen stores will affect your performance at extremely high intensities, namely doing exercises that stress your anaerobic energy systems. Fat is an excellent source of fuel for long duration, endurance exercise, but not for things that require ATP at a fast rate such as sprinting and wrestling. Solk has stated that he lifts weights a couple times a week. Generally lifting weights does not push your V02 intensities to high percentiles.
 
I don't understand your argument here...all these quotes you listed are simply me stating my opinion on what is healthy and unhealthy in a diet...many people here have done the same thing, including Solkanar...When did I state that "the diet will not work"?
Umm, I don't know, maybe I'm in the minority here, but a diet "working" would mean that it produces healthy individuals. All of those quotes were saying that this diet WILL produce unhealthy individuals. You did not say, "well what about this study that says fiber is important?" You said ""If you are consuming a high fat diet, fine, but you need to balance it out. In reading the article I had posted above regarding fiber, you would see that it has a significant effect on cholesterol levels."

You say, "What I'm saying is that a diet which is high in saturated fat needs to be accompanied by fiber to quell these problems associated with high fat diets."

You did not say "Well this seems unhealthy to me, not eating veggies, where would you get your micronutrients?" You said, "You are obviously an intelligent guy, so I don't understand how you can think that having a new york steak with eggs and butter everyday is a healthy way to eat, especially in the absence of vegetables and fruit and whole grains etc." Which, and please correct me if I'm wrong, implied that an intelligent person should easily be able to see that this diet IS lacking in micronutrients.


According to bioenergetics, not having adequate carbohydrates and glycogen stores will affect your performance at extremely high intensities, namely doing exercises that stress your anaerobic energy systems. Fat is an excellent source of fuel for long duration, endurance exercise, but not for things that require ATP at a fast rate such as sprinting and wrestling. Solk has stated that he lifts weights a couple times a week. Generally lifting weights does not push your V02 intensities to high percentiles.

Whoops my fault, I didn't see you adress this in the last sentence.
 
Umm, I don't know, maybe I'm in the minority here, but a diet "working" would mean that it produces healthy individuals. All of those quotes were saying that this diet WILL produce unhealthy individuals. You did not say, "well what about this study that says fiber is important?" You said ""If you are consuming a high fat diet, fine, but you need to balance it out. In reading the article I had posted above regarding fiber, you would see that it has a significant effect on cholesterol levels."

You say, "What I'm saying is that a diet which is high in saturated fat needs to be accompanied by fiber to quell these problems associated with high fat diets."

You did not say "Well this seems unhealthy to me, not eating veggies, where would you get your micronutrients?" You said, "You are obviously an intelligent guy, so I don't understand how you can think that having a new york steak with eggs and butter everyday is a healthy way to eat, especially in the absence of vegetables and fruit and whole grains etc." Which, and please correct me if I'm wrong, implied that an intelligent person should easily be able to see that this diet IS lacking in micronutrients.

Again, I fail to see what point you are trying to make...Yes I said the diet was unhealthy, am I not allowed to say this?

Yes I was wondering how Solk could think that eating eggs, butter, and red meat all day was healthy, and he concurrently replied and has done so throughout the thread. Whether myself or anyone else agrees with him is another matter.

Perhaps we can get back to discussing the actual topic of this thread?
 
Perhaps we can get back to discussing the actual topic of this thread?

Agreed to that, 25% of this thread could be deleted, sherdog belts Demoted, due to internet posturing.
 
My speculation on the topic of performance while not consuming significant amounts of carbohydrates:

The anaerobic energy system uses ATP-PCr system for the first 15 or so seconds, then it turns to glycolytic system and after 45 seconds it turns to oxidative system.

Creatine is the main components to form ATP, and meat is high in creatine, also by beta oxidation the ATP stores can be replenishd. This would take place in between sets. So strength and power training should not be a problem because anaerobic effort (3-15 seconds) is fueled solely by ATP-PCr system which can be fueled by both oxidative and glycolytic system.

A quote from http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/energysystems.html

"the oxidative system can produce ATP through either fat (fatty acids) or carbohydrate (glucose). The key difference is that complete combustion of a fatty acid molecule produces significantly more acetyl coenzyme A and hydrogen (and hence ATP) compared to a glucose molecule. However, because fatty acids consist of more carbon atoms than glucose, they require more oxygen for their combustion."

So weight training shouldnt be a problem on a zero carb diet. A typical Strength and Power training calls for short reps with heavyt weight (power output is greatest in the 3-15 seconds whitch are fueld by ATP) and long rest perioid, a heavy set leaves you panting and thusly you increase your oxygen consumtion whitch in turns enhances lipolysis that leads to the aformentioned "acetyl coenzyme A and hydrogen (and hence ATP)".

But this is just my speculation with the facts of how the energy systmes work...

To another topic, last night I was wondering the topic of is it purely co-incidental that the most natural sources of carbohydrate, such as berries, fruits and starchy root vegetation appear in the end of summer and in the early fall. Just in time for fat stores to be replenished for the winter months... Nature is wise.
 
According to bioenergetics, not having adequate carbohydrates and glycogen stores will affect your performance at extremely high intensities, namely doing exercises that stress your anaerobic energy systems. Fat is an excellent source of fuel for long duration, endurance exercise, but not for things that require ATP at a fast rate such as sprinting and wrestling. Solk has stated that he lifts weights a couple times a week. Generally lifting weights does not push your V02 intensities to high percentiles.

(bolded emphasis mine)

But it DOES heavily rely on the ATP energy system, which is why so many weightlifters use creatine, and which is why I have an issue with the paragraph I quoted. This thread has moved very quickly into the all steak and butter crowd making absurd claims with no factual basis, I am not sure why I keep checking it
 
i jus found this article. its from vince griondas' book the wild physique

MEAT, EGG AND WATER DIET

By Vince Gironda

During the forty years I
 
Again, I fail to see what point you are trying to make...Yes I said the diet was unhealthy, am I not allowed to say this?

Yes I was wondering how Solk could think that eating eggs, butter, and red meat all day was healthy, and he concurrently replied and has done so throughout the thread. Whether myself or anyone else agrees with him is another matter.

Perhaps we can get back to discussing the actual topic of this thread?

The point was pretty simple I thought. All of you guys who say you care about science were trying to come up with every reason (pretty much all of which had almost nothing to do with solks actual diet) as to why this diet will make unhealthy people in the face of someone who does it and is healthy, instead of taking it for being a potentially awesome new finding on human biology. I guess it doesn't matter now, since your whole side has pretty much shut up since every anecdotal story past and present has been positive (oh except to continue calling solk a liar).
 
Thought this was an MMA forum pertaining mainly to MMA athletes.

How does the steak and butter crowd do during athletic competitions, not physique competitions or lifting weights a couple of minutes a day?

I don't care either way just curious.

Edit: Should say 0 carb diet crowd
 
The point was pretty simple I thought. All of you guys who say you care about science were trying to come up with every reason (pretty much all of which had almost nothing to do with solks actual diet) as to why this diet will make unhealthy people in the face of someone who does it and is healthy, instead of taking it for being a potentially awesome new finding on human biology. I guess it doesn't matter now, since your whole side has pretty much shut up since every anecdotal story past and present has been positive (oh except to continue calling solk a liar).

Bolded emphasis mine.

The same reason one does it for a Vegan diet. Just because it works for one person does not mean it is optimal or even preferable for the human body. Do you not read KK's posts?

Fuckit, I'm going to stop banging my head against the wall. Enjoy the steak and eggs.
 
Bolded emphasis mine.

The same reason one does it for a Vegan diet. Just because it works for one person does not mean it is optimal or even preferable for the human body. Do you not read KK's posts?

Fuckit, I'm going to stop banging my head against the wall. Enjoy the steak and eggs.

No actually this is completely different. Vegan diets still use all three macronutrients and their bodies do the same shit an omnivores would do. This diet completely eliminates an entire group of macronutrient, dramatically (if not completely) reduces the intake of certain micronutrients, and yet the subject is still healthy and fine (not to mention supposedly not testing positive for ketones).

And for fucks sake, quit the dumbfuck "enjoy the steak and eggs" comments. Only two people on this entire board are doing this diet and I'm not one, nor will I probably ever be.
 
Thought this was an MMA forum pertaining mainly to MMA athletes.

How does the steak and butter crowd do during athletic competitions, not physique competitions or lifting weights a couple of minutes a day?

I don't care either way just curious.

Edit: Should say 0 carb diet crowd

No one knows (jesus was that not obvious?). The population of known subjects has tripled since the start of this thread, to 3......
 
No one knows (jesus was that not obvious?). The population of known subjects has tripled since the start of this thread, to 3......


i for one cannot wait to see the results on this on those people....uncharted waters are being explored.

meanwhile...can we clarify a few things on some rather charted and documented claims?


mainly...

1) how toxic is spinach? i've been preaching to everyone i know to eat their spinach, and i couldn't quite live with myself if I was actually harming them. Is the spinach killing them? (they are on a normal "balanced" diet)

2) how badly is fiber scratching up my intestines? I have Crohn's disease and can't afford any more scarring of said intestines.

pretty straight forward questions in my opinion, on two subjects Solkanar himself brought up earlier in this thread. Please (solkanar or any of the 2 folks following his diet) go into a bit more detail about those two claims and if possible (one can dream) provide some sources of said claims being tested (something as simple as shoving spinach up an albino rats @$$ will do...but you know...in a laboratory setting).

Thanks
 
i for one cannot wait to see the results on this on those people....uncharted waters are being explored.

meanwhile...can we clarify a few things on some rather charted and documented claims?


mainly...

1) how toxic is spinach? i've been preaching to everyone i know to eat their spinach, and i couldn't quite live with myself if I was actually harming them. Is the spinach killing them? (they are on a normal "balanced" diet)

2) how badly is fiber scratching up my intestines? I have Crohn's disease and can't afford any more scarring of said intestines.

pretty straight forward questions in my opinion, on two subjects Solkanar himself brought up earlier in this thread. Please (solkanar or any of the 2 folks following his diet) go into a bit more detail about those two claims and if possible (one can dream) provide some sources of said claims being tested (something as simple as shoving spinach up an albino rats @$$ will do...but you know...in a laboratory setting).

Thanks

Like salt, fiber and spinach can be very bad for you in large quantities. But like KK said earlier, ANYTHING in large enough quantities is bad for you. I think solkanar was just pointing out these ones in paticular because some people will hear something (fiber, spinach) is good for you and go crazy on it, eating 2-5 times more per day then they should.

Eating that much fiber can replace other energy and nutrients that you need in your diet. Some insoluble fibers bind certain minerals, including calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, and iron. Too much fiber can also cause abdominal discomfort, gas, and diarrhea, and block the gastrointestinal (GI) tract if you add too much fiber too fast. Also, people who have problems with their GI or diseases such as ulcerative colitis are recommended to take up a low-fiber, low-fat diet to lessen further SCRATCHING of the colon.

Spinach is very high in oxalate crystals (mineral salts of oxalic acid). People who have problems with kidney functioning should not be eating a lot of oxalate-containing foods like spinach, because of the increased risk of producing oxalate stones in the kidneys.
 
Animal Source Foods and Human Health during Evolution

Clark Spencer Larsen
Department of Anthropology, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH

"Abstract
Animal source foods (ASF) have always been a constituent of human diets. Their pattern of use, however, changed in dramatic ways over the course of human evolution. Before 2 million years ago (mya), meat in particular was acquired opportunistically via hunting of small or young animals and scavenging of animals killed by other species. At some point after that time, humans began to hunt cooperatively, making possible the acquisition of meat from large game. The marked increase in human heights between 2.0 and 1.7 mya may be linked to more efficient means of acquiring meat, namely through hunting. The final pattern of meat (and other ASF) use before the modern era is associated with the shift from hunting and gathering beginning ~10,000 y ago. This fundamental dietary change resulted in a narrowing of diet, reduced consumption of meat and increased focus on domesticated grains. The study of archaeological human remains from around the world reveals that this period in human dietary history saw a decline in health, including increased evidence of morbidity (poorer dental health, increased occlusal abnormalities, increased iron deficiency anemia, increased infection and bone loss). Human populations living in developing and developed settings today rely on meats with lipid compositions that when eaten in excess promote cardiovascular disease. As humans become more sedentary and eat more high fat foods, we can expect to see increases in heart disease, osteoporosis and other diseases of "civilization.""

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/11/3893S
 
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