Switching from Muay Thai to Boxing

[CoolKnees]

True but in boxing you block punches to the body as you do the head, but you don't leave the body wide open in between time.

Why dont their ribs get smashed to pieces by kicks punches and knees?

Why not use the boxing guard? It still stops some power to the head and the body

Well ask yourself that same question. It's obvious that their ribs isn't getting smashed to pieces despite leaving it "open" as you say so that must mean its working. Thais typically have over 300 fights in their career, if open ribs was something to be exploited then surely it would've been along time ago. Thai's also have a rich boxing community and there are many fighters who compete in both so it's obvious they are well aware of a standard boxing guard. If there was a big benefit to using it, then surely they would.

Some reasons I can think of:

1. Clinch. Keeping the elbow tucked in makes it easier for somebody to wrap your head up in a plum. Clinch doesn't exist in other styles, like Dutch Kickboxing where you see them keeping a tight guard similar to a boxing style.

2. Elbows. Similarly, this doesn't exist in other styles and could be a reason for the stance. It's very easy to come around a boxing guard with an elbow and even split a tight boxing guard down the middle.

3. Distance. Muay Thai fights are engaged at a longer distance because any closer and you start to clinch. You never see Thai's touch head-to-head like the Dutch. As a result, you can see the kicks coming and you can block with your knee or forearms.

It's really not that easy to smash a full power shot to a trained Muay Thai fighter. Also, the stance is not really absolute. Just like some boxers don't use a regular guard, there are many Muay Thai fighters who don't adopt the standard stance.

 

[spacetime]

Head movement

Evasive movement

Standing straight up (learning not to)

Never tilting backwards. Unlearn that.

Putting more pivot into your punches

Sitting down on your punches (you might be used to "rising up" when striking, this is the opposite)

Being and staying "compact"

Footwork (study tape of the best and ask your coach, etc)

Defensive movement

Theory in general (try to study and get a feel for it, it's quite different than kickboxing/MT)

You'll basically want to bend your knees more and stay a little lower to the ground, that's one way to fix a lot of these

Which of the two (thaiboxing vs western boxing) feels the most "natural" as bodymechanics go? I know it's subjective but I'm curious what your take is.

 

[Paradigm]

Which of the two (thaiboxing vs western boxing) feels the most "natural" as bodymechanics go? I know it's subjective but I'm curious what your take is.

I know you weren't asking me but from training beginners, kicking is almost always more foreign to a new person than punching.

 

[spacetime]

I know you weren't asking me but from training beginners, kicking is almost always more foreign to a new person than punching.

No, I mean the different mechanics in punching between thai and western boxing, which feels the most natural for a beginner? And you're very welcome to answer as well.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

No, I mean the different mechanics in punching between thai and western boxing, which feels the most natural for a beginner? And you're very welcome to answer as well.

Kickboxing punches are coarser and less detailed so they "feel" more natural to the beginner, because they're closer to what a beginner already knows. Boxing punches there's more to work on but after you get the hang of it it feels much better and works more efficient imo. You can witness this just by observing.


Another thing I forgot to mention is that in boxing, you're head should be kept off center (this doesn't feel natural until you're used to it), whereas in kickboxing they likely wouldn't correct it if you were keeping your head centered (which makes it much more easy to see and strike). This is also worked into/part of the punching dynamics as well for boxing.

 

[spacetime]

Kickboxing punches are coarser and less detailed so they "feel" more natural to the beginner, because they're closer to what a beginner already knows. Boxing punches there's more to work on but after you get the hang of it it feels much better and works more efficient imo. You can witness this just by observing.
.

Why is leaning into punches a big no-no in boxing, but not Muay Thai? Doesn't it generate more force to put more body into the punch + rotation.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Well ask yourself that same question. It's obvious that their ribs isn't getting smashed to pieces despite leaving it "open" as you say so that must mean its working. Thais typically have over 300 fights in their career, if open ribs was something to be exploited then surely it would've been along time ago. Thai's also have a rich boxing community and there are many fighters who compete in both so it's obvious they are well aware of a standard boxing guard. If there was a big benefit to using it, then surely they would.

Some reasons I can think of:

1. Clinch. Keeping the elbow tucked in makes it easier for somebody to wrap your head up in a plum. Clinch doesn't exist in other styles, like Dutch Kickboxing where you see them keeping a tight guard similar to a boxing style.

2. Elbows. Similarly, this doesn't exist in other styles and could be a reason for the stance. It's very easy to come around a boxing guard with an elbow and even split a tight boxing guard down the middle.

3. Distance. Muay Thai fights are engaged at a longer distance because any closer and you start to clinch. You never see Thai's touch head-to-head like the Dutch. As a result, you can see the kicks coming and you can block with your knee or forearms.

It's really not that easy to smash a full power shot to a trained Muay Thai fighter. Also, the stance is not really absolute. Just like some boxers don't use a regular guard, there are many Muay Thai fighters who don't adopt the standard stance.

Actually most of them have a more boxing like guard now elbows only slightly out, so your argument while it seemed to be valid it wasnt, just goes to show something that sounds very right can be completely wrong. Best to keep an open mind

 

[CoolKnees]

Actually most of them have a more boxing like guard now elbows only slightly out, so your argument while it seemed to be valid it wasnt, just goes to show something that sounds very right can be completely wrong. Best to keep an open mind

What are you talking about? Here's a very recent fight, Littewada is one of the top fighters currently:



This is about as standard a Muay Thai stance as it gets. You should also keep in mind that in Muay Thai, punches are scored almost nothing so there's not much of an advantage to being more of a boxer. In fact, I'd say the punching ability in today's Muay Thai has really gone down the drain compared to the golden age.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

What are you talking about? Here's a very recent fight, Littewada is one of the top fighters currently:



This is about as standard a Muay Thai stance as it gets. You should also keep in mind that in Muay Thai, punches are scored almost nothing so there's not much of an advantage to being more of a boxer. In fact, I'd say the punching ability in today's Muay Thai has really gone down the drain compared to the golden age.

Please show all top guys as a whole not 1 example. Since they are elite top guys theres not many of them currently

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Why is leaning into punches a big no-no in boxing, but not Muay Thai? Doesn't it generate more force to put more body into the punch + rotation.

Risk:Reward ratio is terrible. It's a natural thing to try to do for when you want to PUSH or MOVE something or someone, but no it doesn't really add KO power even though it seems at first like it would, but it DOES increase your own chance of getting easily KO'd by an impossibly large factor. It's what the opponent hopes you will do so he can get that easy, beautiful HL reel shot and put the fight snugly in his pocket.

There's even more reasons to not lean in but I don't want to do all your thinking for you, that would be like robbing you of the ability to get it to "click" in your own head. Try to come up with as many reasons why it might be a bad idea, and I guarantee you, most or all of those reasons will be absolutely correct.

 

[spacetime]

Risk:Reward ratio is terrible. It's a natural thing to try to do for when you want to PUSH or MOVE something or someone, but no it doesn't really add KO power even though it seems at first like it would, but it DOES increase your own chance of getting easily KO'd by an impossibly large factor. It's what the opponent hopes you will do so he can get that easy, beautiful HL reel shot and put the fight snugly in his pocket.

There's even more reasons to not lean in but I don't want to do all your thinking for you, that would be like robbing you of the ability to get it to "click" in your own head. Try to come up with as many reasons why it might be a bad idea, and I guarantee you, most or all of those reasons will be absolutely correct.

But your claim that Western Boxing mechanics is universally more effective (you wrote that it was more effective period) would probably be disputed by a Thaiboxing coach, who will point out that nobody uses it in Muay Thai rules because the reward in power is overshadowed by being harrassed with kicks. The boxers can afford to give themselves that extra power because kicks are prohibited. So there really is no answer which is better, it depends on the the rule-set.
Agreed?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I don't follow MT closely but I have seen alot of fights and I can say that it is extremely diverse depending on the gym/fighter.

What Sangmanee does is almost a différent martial art than the one Muangthai does.

Also some Thai fighters will literally only throw a couple of punches in a round,while others are also pro boxers and use hands alot.

There are some legit boxers in mt.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

But your claim that Western Boxing mechanics is universally more effective (you wrote that it was more effective period) would probably be disputed by a Thaiboxing coach, who will point out that nobody uses it in Muay Thai rules because the reward in power is overshadowed by being harrassed with kicks. The boxers can afford to give themselves that extra power because kicks are prohibited. So there really is no answer which is better, it depends on the the rule-set.
Agreed?

Nah.

That's like a boxing coach claiming that "boxing clinch is just as good as MT clinch". I mean they BOTH have clinches, right? They must be equal but in different ways! It's just not true because it's not developed as fully or worked on as extensively. Life isn't fair, and all disciplines are not equally effective in the ways they want to be.

There is no advantage to keeping your head centered and unmoving, except to your opponent, for example.

---

I know you want to believe modern MT is fully developed in every detail and area and has nothing to improve on or learn at this point... that's just not true. Footwork is another area they could improve quickly, but it's the culture, not even the rules, that frowns on it and so discourages it.

There's a reason why MT classes are often supplemented with boxing classes, think about it.

 

[fluffball]

The handspeed difference people have noted is more about MT guys flaring their elbows and muscle punching rather than a true handspeed difference, IMO. I mean I guess that's saying the same thing, just that MT is basically doing it wrong rather than boxers having some different physical attributes. MT is slower than normal instead of boxing is faster than average.

 

[spacetime]

Nah.

That's like a boxing coach claiming that "boxing clinch is just as good as MT clinch". I mean they BOTH have clinches, right? They must be equal but in different ways! It's just not true because it's not developed as fully or worked on as extensively. Life isn't fair, and all disciplines are not equally effective in the ways they want to be.

There is no advantage to keeping your head centered and unmoving, except to your opponent, for example.

---

I know you want to believe modern MT is fully developed in every detail and area and has nothing to improve on or learn at this point... that's just not true. Footwork is another area they could improve quickly, but it's the culture, not even the rules, that frowns on it and so discourages it.

There's a reason why MT classes are often supplemented with boxing classes, think about it.

If I punch the way boxing advocates stance-wise, in a Thaiboxing bout, my legs will be taken out. So I dont' understand how it's concidered more effective if it's dependent on boxing rules. Catch my drift?

 

[Sano]

If I punch the way boxing advocates stance-wise, in a Thaiboxing bout, my legs will be taken out. So I dont' understand how it's concidered more effective if it's dependent on boxing rules. Catch my drift?

Not necessarily. Sure, you might have to modify your stance and be a bit more selective of how you apply you boxing, depending on the ruleset. It is possible to blend good MT with good boxing. I know it is kind of a low hanging fruit, but ever heard of this guy?



Or this one?



Incidentally (well maybe not quite) my two favourite MT fighters a long with Dieselnoi and Sittichai

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Nah.

That's like a boxing coach claiming that "boxing clinch is just as good as MT clinch". I mean they BOTH have clinches, right? They must be equal but in different ways! It's just not true because it's not developed as fully or worked on as extensively. Life isn't fair, and all disciplines are not equally effective in the ways they want to be.

There is no advantage to keeping your head centered and unmoving, except to your opponent, for example.

---

I know you want to believe modern MT is fully developed in every detail and area and has nothing to improve on or learn at this point... that's just not true. Footwork is another area they could improve quickly, but it's the culture, not even the rules, that frowns on it and so discourages it.

There's a reason why MT classes are often supplemented with boxing classes, think about it.

Disagree about footwork. The mobility and rythm these guys have is crazy.

It s just impossible to compare really. They cover much more distance with their footwork to close in, counter kick, evade, teep, etc.

Not saying footwork is better but I would not say that boxing is better. It s subjective and depends on the context.

 

[spacetime]

It is possible to blend good MT with good boxing. I know it is kind of a low hanging fruit, but ever heard of this guy?
i

You're saying Samart continued using western boxing mechanics when he turned back to Muay Thai competitions?

 

[spacetime]

There is no advantage to keeping your head centered and unmoving,.

-.

If you want to avoid unexpected kicks (or knees) to the head, it is.

 

[Sano]

You're saying Samart continued using western boxing mechanics when he turned back to Muay Thai competitions?

Definitely, along with Samart.