Some Mass college's librarians say wishing "Merry Christmass" or "God Bless You" = Islamophobic

[Islam Imamate]

What's wrong in wishing Christians "Merry Christmass" ? I am agnostic and I do it. Even some Muslims do it. This is a majority Christian nation, so nothing wrong in shops and gov. officials displaying "Merry Christmass". Look at Muslim majority nations, they sure as heck do not entertain any notion that they shouldn't mention Muslim greetings.

Why don't Liberals have a problem with wishing Jews "Happy Hannukah", wishing Muslims "Eid Mubarack" and Hindus "Happy Diwali"

If you believe the country should assert its religious identity then you have to understand that a natural result of that is that minorities will assert their own religious identity because the society around them makes them hyper aware of it by virtue of exclusion.

Many Muslims are actually okay with this and are conscious of the reality of their minority status but its Christians who will criticize them for not assimilating even though they explicitly define American culture with Christian symbolism which is obviously a barrier to cultural assimilation for non-Christians.

 

[MicroBrew]

If you believe the country should assert its religious identity then you have to understand that a natural result of that is that minorities will assert their own religious identity because the society around them makes them hyper aware of it by virtue of exclusion.

Many Muslims are actually okay with this and are conscious of the reality of their minority status but its Christians who will criticize them for not assimilating even though they explicitly define American culture with Christian symbolism which is obviously a barrier to cultural assimilation for non-Christians.

Minorities already assert their religious identity, even while mainstream America and the West , has moved away from clannish identity. Atheism, Agnosticism is quite dominant in Western Europe. It is gaining ground in America too. But at the same time Muslims , Sikhs and Haredi are still maintaining a communal identity and Muslims are even getting more religious.

"Assert its religious authority" is a very broad description. Simply wishing Merry Christmas or God Bless You is not bullying or cultural chauvinism; it's a rather innocuous saying without any maliciousness behind it. If minorities choose to see it as exclusion, that says more about their own intolerant mindset than it does about the mainstream. Aside from African Americans, native Hawaiians and Amerindians, there is nothing really for minorities to complain about. No one forced them to come here. Is it too much to ask them to show a teeny bit of gratitude and not get irritated at everything the mainstream does.

Christian - and by that I mean White Christians - really had no grounds to criticize minorities for non-integration decades back, because White society in general just never saw minorities as American. But now, things have changed a lot. Now in many cases, it is recent minorities who want to remain separate and distinct and then complain about discrimination. Some minorities want to have it both ways, they want to maintain tribal identities but at the same time bitch at the mainstream for not accepting them. I am not one who supports assimilation, nor separation. But I think there should be some integration on the part of recent immigrants; specifically they should abandon their ethnocentric and supremacists beliefs.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Minorities already assert their religious identity, even while mainstream America and also the West , has moved away from communal sectarian identity. Atheism, Agnosticism is quite dominant in Western Europe. It is gaining ground in America too. But at the same time Muslims are still maintaining a communal identity and even getting more religious.

If you look at Muslim countries where secularism is strongest its in countries which follow the laicite model of secularism whereby all religion is expunged from public life or at least as much as possible. So if you do want Muslims to assimilate and leave behind their religious identity then the rest of society should as well. If not then don't be surprised when Muslims and other non-Christian minorities hold onto their identities.

"Assert its religious authority" is a very broad description. Simply wishing Merry Christmas or God Bless You is not bullying or cultural chauvinism; it's a rather innocuous saying without any maliciousness behind it. If minorities choose to see it as exclusion, that says more about their own intolerant mindset than it does about the mainstream. Aside from African Americans and Amerindians, what grounds do any of these minorities have to complain; no one forced them to come here. Is it too much to ask for them to show a teeny bit of gratitude and not get irritated at everything the mainstream does.

I've never heard a Muslim complain about Merry Christmas and as I said earlier I've actually heard the opposite. I grew up celebrating Christmas with my parents telling me there was nothing wrong with it.

But at the end of the day the prominence of a Christian holiday is a reminder to all non-Christians of their minority status and that reminder unconsciously activates a stronger identification with one's minority status. Its not that the gesture is seen or intended to be offensive but it nonetheless reasserts the cultural supremacy of Christianity in the American cultural landscape and that makes cultural assimilation of religious minorities less likely.

I'm not saying that's even a bad thing, I love Christmas and insist on saying Merry Christmas my self. But the consequence is that non-Christian minorities will remain conscious of and reaffirm their own identities.

Christian - and by that I mean White Christians - really had no grounds to criticize minorities for non-integration decades back, because White society in general just never saw minorities as American. But now, things have changed a lot. Now in many cases, it is recent minorities who want to remain separate and distinct and then complain about discrimination. Some minorities want to have it both ways, they want to maintain tribal identities but at the same time bitch at the mainstream for not accepting them. I am not one who supports assimilation, nor separation. But I think there should be some integration on the part of recent immigrants; specifically they should abandon their ethnocentric and supremacists beliefs.

Recent immigrants segregate themselves primarily for linguistic reasons. If you are not fluent in English is makes perfect sense to seek out areas where your neighbors and local businesses are more likely to be accommodate your language.

 

[neverwas]

As a leftie I agree!!! End the marginalization of left handed people!! We're sick of living in this right-normative world!!!!

your left handed?

 

[Der Eisbär]

your left handed?

You jellybrah?

 

[neverwas]

You jellybrah?

of a cack handed leftie?

 

[Der Eisbär]

of a cack handed leftie?

I'm part of a marginalized minority therefore I'm more valuable than you. Umad?

 

[oldshadow]

Let me answer them with this.

 

[MicroBrew]

Exactly, you are agnostic, so you don't have a dog in the fight, Christmas is just about lights, trees, presents, and Charlie Brown. I personally don't care either, but let's be honest, it is isn't inclusive. The issue is for people who buy into a non Christian religious ideology being offended because of someone saying "merry birth of the messiah," when they don't think Jesus was the messiah, and they feel that their religion is being put down. On the flip side you have "Jesus is the reason for the season" folks who get upset because Christmas has become too secular, too commercial, too pagan, etc.,.

The point is that if you are an administrator, and you want to be fair and not be an "America is a Christian Nation" person, then you have to be cognizant that saying merry Christmas is a religious statement, even though you might not see it that way.

"Not inclusive" is a really broad frame of mind. There is the kind of cultural chauvinism that the Roy Moore types display and then there is the average American who says Merry Christmas or God Bless you, without having any sort of maliciousness behind it. I don't support having "In God We Trust " on money or the government having prayer services etc.. but some critics of Christian culture take things too dam far. Like that recent incident with Chris Pratt praying for whatshisname.

 

[Gregolian]

I'm part of a marginalized minority therefore I'm more valuable than you. Umad?

In baseball maybe.. outside of that you're a freak.

 

[neverwas]

I'm part of a marginalized minority therefore I'm more valuable than you. Umad?

at least i don't have to use those special needs scissors,like you.

 

[MicroBrew]

My dad is a Sunni Muslim and he hates hearing Happy Holidays over Merry Christmas. In his mind he figures it was more to appease the Jews since he sees no issue in celebrating Jesus as a Muslim as he's also considered a prophet in Islam.

So for him Happy Holidays is the microaggression, not the other way around.

"Judeo-Christian" is another one of those terms the rightwing popularized so as not to offend Jews. This term really only started to gain ground in the 80s, though I think it was being bandied about by the social conservatives in the 70s and you could probably find a reference here and there from even further back. But for all intents and purposes. America has traditionally been referred to as a "Christian" nation, not "Judeo-Christian" .

 

[Der Eisbär]

In baseball maybe.. outside of that you're a freak.

My left handed pitcher days are behind me

 

[Islam Imamate]

"Judeo-Christian" is another one of those terms the rightwing popularized so as not to offend Jews. This term really only started to gain ground in the 80s, though I think it was being bandied about by the social conservatives in the 70s and you could probably find a reference here and there from even further back. But for all intents and purposes. America has traditionally been referred to as a "Christian" nation, not "Judeo-Christian" .

Yes I know all that, in my mind "Judaeo-Christian" is a nonsense word that is only employed by ideologues trying to leverage identity politics. I'm just saying that's how he sees it and I don't think its entirely inaccurate. Jews have a deeper history in the US, especially in positions of cultural and political significance, so you would think the shift away from Merry Christmas over the long run had more to do with appeasing Jews than Muslims. And also as I said, Muslims revere Jesus so its easier for them to adapt to Merry Christmas than Jews I think.

 

[Mark Cutting]

Fuck Islam.

First and foremost we need to end the aggression towards left-handers. It's offensive that the word "right" also means "correct".

Problem solved..."lefty"

 

[Mark Cutting]

My left handed pitcher days are behind me

Preach it, brother !

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Problem solved..."lefty"

That would be a real hindrance to enjoying some internet porn.

 

[Mark Cutting]

That would be a real hindrance to enjoying some internet porn.

 

[Shoemaker]

Dear librarians who I shouldn't care about but have none-the-less been thrust in front of me,

No.

Kindly,
Shoe

 

[Cirris]

Meh. Sometimes language should change, but finding derogatory meaning in phrases on behalf of groups that aren't even the object of those phrases is truly stupid.

Even more annoyingly ironic is you know that those who advocate silencing the religious self-expression of Christians are most likely the same goobers who are rocking the pro-hijab imagery on their facebook, twitter.

Fucking postmodernist bullshit at its finest.