Russia to raise retirement age above life expectancy

[BrotherClaudio]

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-44495136



This reminds me of when, during the election, Jeb said Americans would have to get used to working more hours for less money.

People live way longer than we used to, coupled with population increase, it's the only logical outcome. Unless you want constant debt and starving populace

 

[Makani]

 

[cottagecheesefan]

But they have a year of paternity leave. Take that capitalist swine!

 

[Judge]

To be fair in 1950 the social Security age in the US was 65 and US Male Life Expectancy was 65

Ah, the good old days.

 

[Starck]

I remember years ago university professor (lawyer) said that from the looks of Russian law Russian government can stop paying pensions to a people with kids. Like, Russian laws (and I think he said Chinese too) says that kids should care about their parents. So government can say, "all right Russians, we will continue to give pensions to people without children, and those who have children should ask their children and not government if they need money".

Can't imagine they'd ever enact that sort of policy. It would be demographic suicide for a country already doing poorly in that regard.

 

[Harry Flashman]

67 in Australia

 

[JDragon]

Time to cut down on the vodka.

This

 

[TheGreatA]

Maybe it will force people to be more responsible about their lifestyles.

Stop being a vodka-abusing, generally irresponsible self-destructive maniac as many Russians tend to be.

Stop driving on the roads like you want yourself (and everybody else) to get killed, usually under the influence of alcohol.

This is not really the government's fault at this point because despite all its faults, it's not the gulag regime that USSR was. There are worse countries that have higher life expectancies.

Russia is corrupt and violent, sure, but is it any more corrupt or violent than Mexico?

 

[Seaside]

This

This is the main issue. Sometimes macho culture can go to far and damage your own life. we see this in africa and many parts of latin america. The bottom 40% or whatever just living shit choices. But hey i guess it is better than dying of extreme obesity or being not moveable.

I remember years ago university professor (lawyer) said that from the looks of Russian law Russian government can stop paying pensions to a people with kids. Like, Russian laws (and I think he said Chinese too) says that kids should care about their parents. So government can say, "all right Russians, we will continue to give pensions to people without children, and those who have children should ask their children and not government if they need money".

link? proof of it in law?

 

[Seaside]

Maybe it will force people to be more responsible about their lifestyles.

Stop being a vodka-abusing, generally irresponsible self-destructive maniac as many Russians tend to be.

Stop driving on the roads like you want yourself (and everybody else) to get killed, usually under the influence of alcohol.

This is not really the government's fault at this point because despite all its faults, it's not the gulag regime that USSR was. There are worse countries that have higher life expectancies.

Russia is corrupt and violent, sure, but is it any more corrupt or violent than Mexico?

i think less than mexico. I believe the institutions are stronger not as strong as US but yes stronger. US people say is corrupt but at municipal level or state level thinks function. Russia has universal healthcare not great but i has it, school free to, many other things. Some areas like muslim areas in caucaus have all that obvious but the corruption is different than elsewhere and is about running there own affairs. Russia has many states with vary degrees of power.

 

[TheGreatA]

i think less than mexico. I believe the institutions are stronger not as strong as US but yes stronger. US people say is corrupt but at municipal level or state level thinks function. Russia has universal healthcare not great but i has it, school free to, many other things. Some areas like muslim areas in caucaus have all that obvious but the corruption is different than elsewhere and is about running there own affairs. Russia has many states with vary degrees of power.

The murder rate is a lot lower than in Mexico, and on par with the United States, so violence doesn't even begin to explain it.

There's just something about Russians (not Slavs, because many Eastern Europeans are doing fine) that makes them prone to self-destructive behaviour. It was the same way even in the 19th century. Even the most prominent intellectuals and music composers, were gambling addicts or heavy drinkers.

The internet is full of Russians doing the craziest things imaginable, not for an audience, not for fame or money, but just for the hell of it. A lot of them just have no regard for their own well-being. And I reckon that none of it is done while sober.

I think the state needs to start controlling alcohol consumption like in Finland, and push back culturally on drinking. Putting limits to alcohol use, had a big effect on the decrease of alcohol consumption here. Finns were some of the biggest abusers of alcohol only a decade or so ago, today they are within the norms.

 

[Seaside]

The murder rate is a lot lower than in Mexico, and on par with the United States, so violence doesn't even begin to explain it.

There's just something about Russians (not Slavs, because many Eastern Europeans are doing fine) that makes them prone to self-destructive behaviour. It was the same way even in the 19th century. Even the most prominent intellectuals and music composers, were gambling addicts or heavy drinkers.

The internet is full of Russians doing the craziest things imaginable, not for an audience, not for fame or money, but just for the hell of it. A lot of them just have no regard for their own well-being. And I reckon that none of it is done while sober.

I think the state needs to start controlling alcohol consumption like in Finland, and push back culturally on drinking. Putting limits to alcohol use, had a big effect on the decrease of alcohol consumption here. Finns were some of the biggest abusers of alcohol only a decade or so ago, today they are within the norms.

I agree. There was more order during the soviet days for obvious reasons. After the stalin years everything was better in many ways compared to now. demographic situation, religious extremism, etc. It is also a myth that the reason for the collapse was ´´populist´´ nationalist sentiements or religious among people or pure economic reasons.

The biggest lie told is that ´´oh there economy so bad and everyone wanted out´´ not true. The baltics leaving did not hurt the USSR. What ruined the USSR was the elite of Russia like yeltsin and company deciding they did not want it to continue despite the wishes of like 80% of people and all the people in power outside of yeltin. The stan countries, azerbaijan, all wanted to remain very much. Ukarine and belarus to. But what killed it was the elite of ukraine and Russia decided to pull out meaning the other republics could not continue on. Losing Russia as republic was death sentence to entire Union, losing Ukraine would of hurt a lot but been survivable, but losing Ukraine was done with same people of losing Russia same networks worked to end that.

 

[Rod1]

i think less than mexico. I believe the institutions are stronger not as strong as US but yes stronger. US people say is corrupt but at municipal level or state level thinks function. Russia has universal healthcare not great but i has it, school free to, many other things. Some areas like muslim areas in caucaus have all that obvious but the corruption is different than elsewhere and is about running there own affairs. Russia has many states with vary degrees of power.

At least we hold legitimate elections, if our politicians didnt worried about staying in power i reckon the country would be far more functional than it is.

Male life expectancy in Mexico is 73, and we struggle with diabetes, obesity and to a lesser extent booze. Maybe its the water?

EDIT

Holy crap

It is not clear how many Russian men drink three bottles or more a week. Lead researcher Sir Richard Peto of Oxford University said the average Russian adult drank 20 litres of vodka per year while the average Briton drank about three litres of spirits.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/russian-men-losing-years-to-vodka

 

[Seaside]

At least we hold legitimate elections, if our politicians didnt worried about staying in power i reckon the country would be far more functional than it is.

Male life expectancy in Mexico is 73, and we struggle with diabetes, obesity and to a lesser extent booze. Maybe its the water?

EDIT

Holy crap

It is not clear how many Russian men drink three bottles or more a week. Lead researcher Sir Richard Peto of Oxford University said the average Russian adult drank 20 litres of vodka per year while the average Briton drank about three litres of spirits.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/russian-men-losing-years-to-vodka

Russia holds almost legit full elections. I can agree the navalny thing is by all accounts suppression. But Putin and government can and are criticized. There were so many other candidates running and they got owned. Yeah you can find some case of ballot stuffing but US has same alleged problems. I swear i seen threads people say US election rigged or that Trump should not have won. I cannot in any way believe Putin would have lost. After 2024 if he decided to run again in 2030 I could even see him narrowly winning but I dont think he will. He will my guess is (he have entertain idea of running as PM) in 2024. I think he will become PM in 2024 and Medvedv or someone else even more liked become leader. I think in 2030 he will step down but think he and the intelligence agency, and oligarch inner faction are setting up system to be more like council and similar to China.

The west likes to claim that the last time Russia had legit elections was the 1990s and then 2000, 2004. That could also be true but if you ask me even election of Yeltsin again was not fair.

I wish i could remember or find the link but there was some article by some western news thing claiming that elections in most of eastern world are not fair. And said Russia last fair elections was like 2004. But if you ask my personal opinion all election in all of 3rd world, 2nd world countries are not completely fair competing factions for power or in some cases like the Stan countries the same people in power today are the ones who held power in the Soviet days or were part of that same cabal. It same in azerbaijan, armenia sort of, and Georgia shits through competing factions. Ukraine it sort obvious the divide and split but has i guess more democratic outsiders now than any other former republics except the Baltics. Belarus was run by former soviet guys and still is! It wont change and maybe it should not things stable and not descended to afghan levels. The way the stans are run could be better but so much chaos has been avoided because the controllers of the country are smart and actual secular leaders. I think after 2024 Putin may become PM but after 2030 he step down and think that he and ´deep state´and Oligarchs will set up a more ´soviet´ like system that existed post Stalin that made sure nobody could ever hold as much power as Putin has now or Stalin ever had. With that said the gap of power between stalin and putin is huge. Putin i believe does not have full control of deep state or oligarchs and think if he was shit they would take him out.

It depend what you want. USSR was not democratic. The EU elites are largely unelected it is ruled by technocrats and my prediction will become more soviet like in future. China is ´democratic´ only at the smallest levels of society. But they run efficiently. Who knows where the future will be but my guess is it being on the more technocratic and authortarian countries.

 

[superpunch]

edit: already been said

 

[Ruprecht]

That's misleading. Yeah, the life expectancy might only be 65 but I think most Russian men can expect to live much longer than that. It's not a normal distribution. It's low because there's a huge amount of Russian men dying young from alcoholism. Take out all the Russian alcoholics dying in their 40s and the life expectancy probably looks normal.

I'm sure that's the case in a lot of places with low life expectancies.
Life expectancy for men in Papua New Guinea is 62 (big improvement, in 1960 it was 38), but there are old Papua New Guineans.

 

[superpunch]

I'm sure that's the case in a lot of places with low life expectancies.
Life expectancy for men in Papua New Guinea is 62 (big improvement, in 1960 it was 38), but there are old Papua New Guineans.

What I'm trying to say is that life expectancy is an average/ mean. If you took the median instead, I bet that the Russian male life expectancy would look normal.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

No, man. Now Trump worships Kim. It's all moving so quickly.

I wish US citizens would sit up for their Leader like their subjects do


He reportedly said

 

[Ruprecht]

What I'm trying to say is that life expectancy is an average/ mean. If you took the median instead, I bet that the Russian male life expectancy would look normal.

Yeah, I gathered. Low average lifespans don't mean everyone dies in their 60s, it means there's probably still comparatively high infant mortality, violence (be that wars or violent crime, they both overwhelmingly kill young men) or rates of substance abuse.

Edit: Surprisingly, infant mortality in Russia has nearly halved since 2006.

 

[Rod1]

Russia holds almost legit full elections. I can agree the navalny thing is by all accounts suppression. But Putin and government can and are criticized. There were so many other candidates running and they got owned. Yeah you can find some case of ballot stuffing but US has same alleged problems. I swear i seen threads people say US election rigged or that Trump should not have won. I cannot in any way believe Putin would have lost. After 2024 if he decided to run again in 2030 I could even see him narrowly winning but I dont think he will. He will my guess is (he have entertain idea of running as PM) in 2024. I think he will become PM in 2024 and Medvedv or someone else even more liked become leader. I think in 2030 he will step down but think he and the intelligence agency, and oligarch inner faction are setting up system to be more like council and similar to China.

The west likes to claim that the last time Russia had legit elections was the 1990s and then 2000, 2004. That could also be true but if you ask me even election of Yeltsin again was not fair.

I wish i could remember or find the link but there was some article by some western news thing claiming that elections in most of eastern world are not fair. And said Russia last fair elections was like 2004. But if you ask my personal opinion all election in all of 3rd world, 2nd world countries are not completely fair competing factions for power or in some cases like the Stan countries the same people in power today are the ones who held power in the Soviet days or were part of that same cabal. It same in azerbaijan, armenia sort of, and Georgia shits through competing factions. Ukraine it sort obvious the divide and split but has i guess more democratic outsiders now than any other former republics except the Baltics. Belarus was run by former soviet guys and still is! It wont change and maybe it should not things stable and not descended to afghan levels. The way the stans are run could be better but so much chaos has been avoided because the controllers of the country are smart and actual secular leaders. I think after 2024 Putin may become PM but after 2030 he step down and think that he and ´deep state´and Oligarchs will set up a more ´soviet´ like system that existed post Stalin that made sure nobody could ever hold as much power as Putin has now or Stalin ever had. With that said the gap of power between stalin and putin is huge. Putin i believe does not have full control of deep state or oligarchs and think if he was shit they would take him out.

It depend what you want. USSR was not democratic. The EU elites are largely unelected it is ruled by technocrats and my prediction will become more soviet like in future. China is ´democratic´ only at the smallest levels of society. But they run efficiently. Who knows where the future will be but my guess is it being on the more technocratic and authortarian countries.

Almost legit elections? Boris Nemstov disagrees.