Rizin FF 12/29 & 12/31 Rumors + Plus Suggest Name for NYE Show

[Pyreen]

My point was that We have heard for years now how Pride supposedly treated the fighters so well, and now we have them trashing Wanderlei one week, and now Carwin, with Takada even so much as threatening him to stay away from Japan, juts like the Yakuza flunkies they are.

Never mind the fact that after how many years of running tournaments that blow up, they still haven't learned that an ounce of proper prep in the form of an alternate bout would have saved them a lot of headaches.

Agree on your second point. Though it's harder for RIZIN than for Pride, since they dont have a large enough core roster and have to walk the tightrope between snatching up name guys on short notice vs building their own guys long term. It probably worked out for them this time with Mo and Herring, but I concur that they should try to have some quality guys on standby if possible.

Concerning your first point, I think it's important to note that all 3 dropouts were handled very differently. When Jiri dropped out they were super supportive, announced he'ld fight for them next year, and even gave him some free promotion by sharing his rehab videos on social media. And this even though he doesnt have nearly the value of a Wand or a Carwin. The only guy they really tore into is Carwin, who had, as far as we know, the weakest reason to pull out. So basically I think that they'll stand by you if they feel that you're honest and committed to them, and shit on you if they feel like you're disrespecting their promotion or acting in bad faith. Doesnt strike me as massively unusual or particularly reprehensible treatment especially by MMA promoters standards.

 

[Asurah]

Kandori pulled out, fellow pro wrestler and WMMA OG Yumiko Hotta steps in against Gabi

 

[Deleted member 363827]

So many replacements...is this UFC? lol

 

[Pyreen]

Kandori pulled out, fellow pro wrestler and WMMA OG Yumiko Hotta steps in against Gabi

Actually a much better "match" lol. Hotta also participated in the first WMMA tourney in history and looked way better than Kandori. She fought MMA on and off til 2012. Bad record but no worked matches. I think she's 49 or 50? Cant't believe I'm evaluating freakshows seriously, but WAR Hotta.

She also fought George Lucas' eldest daughter.


Edit: In case anyone's wondering, Kandori broke a rib in sparring. Post menopausal bone density decreases?

So many replacements...is this UFC? lol

Yeah the injury rates for these cards have been unreal. A part is obviously due to the reliance on veterans with too much mileage on their bodies, but this time around they're having serious bad luck on top of it.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

His reaction is understandable though, the situation according to Japanese news sites is that Carwin is in a legal dispute with his ex-wife over custody of his kids, and he basically told RIZIN 3 weeks ago that, because of this emotional duress, he didnt feel like training hard enough to be in what he considers adequate shape to fight, so he just said he wasnt gonna honor his contractual obligation. That's why the official reason for the fight falling apart is "personal issues", not an injury or visa issues or whatever.

Should this be true (of course it's only Sakakibara's side), their reaction is warranted. Nobody in MMA, probably not even McGregor, could get away with signing a fight contract, having it heavily promoted for 2 months, then call in 3 weeks before the fight and go "Sorry bro, I dont feel like fulfilling my contract cause of marital troubles, gl with a replacement" and not face severe backlash from the promotion.

Sakakibara also said they were only communicating via each others lawyers atm. I dont expect anything to come from that just like with the Le Banner situation last year, but it's still notable.

Of course we dont know whether that's the extent of the situation, but many people on these boards were wondering why Carwin had been so silent on social media for the past weeks/months. At the very least, that means he's not interested in presenting a different point of view on the matter to the public.

I heard from a trustworthy forum admin who talked to Carwin and said the Carwin has serious personal issues that would be much more important than a fight.

also why do you rate this card as "make-or-break"?

 

[Pyreen]

Ialso why do you rate this card as "make-or-break"?

Because RIZIN is financed largely by their TV network (in addition to a number of "anonymous" financial backers who rumors say are Arab investors and people who of course are definitely not Yakuza), and the main reason Fuji put them back on is cause they were fed up with getting smashed in the ratings every NYE. So far, RIZIN has been able to hold and slightly increase viewer interest with each televised event. If this card should break that trend and tank in the ratings, the network execs will take a real close look at their investment. Should ratings be comparable to last year, things will go on as they were more or less, but the declared goal is to improve on last years numbers. If they meet this goal they will garner more network trust, which means more cash and more opportunities to solidify a core roster of quality fighters.
So it's more of an "incremental make or break"; disastrous ratings mean big trouble, average ratings mean business as usual, and great ratings mean expansion and increased athletic legitimacy. That's why a lot hinges on this card compared to others like the April or September shows.

 

[Sakuraba7]

Maybe, probably depends on the fighter in question, the situation he's in, how it's communicated etc.. There is a substantial difference however between a comparative no name on a talent show requesting a temporary leave to handle personal business, and one of the biggest fights on a make-or-break show for the promotion falling apart because a fighter doesnt feel as ready as he'ld like to be.

Also iirc the UFC canned a fighter on an older season of TUF for this exact reason, and the UFC actually used it for some voyeuristic reality show drama with Dana making an example of the kid about how much you would have to be willing to sacrifice in order to get the honor of fighting for his organization.

I'm definitely understanding Saki's POV here, he got screwed by Crawin who disregarded a legal contract. but Saki needs to be careful, because this can easily be used against him in the public eye and the media. You know the haters are gonna love having this type of ammo against the org.

 

[Sakuraba7]

Because RIZIN is financed largely by their TV network (in addition to a number of "anonymous" financial backers who rumors say are Arab investors and people who of course are definitely not Yakuza), and the main reason Fuji put them back on is cause they were fed up with getting smashed in the ratings every NYE. So far, RIZIN has been able to hold and slightly increase viewer interest with each televised event. If this card should break that trend and tank in the ratings, the network execs will take a real close look at their investment. Should ratings be comparable to last year, things will go on as they were more or less, but the declared goal is to improve on last years numbers. If they meet this goal they will garner more network trust, which means more cash and more opportunities to solidify a core roster of quality fighters.
So it's more of an "incremental make or break"; disastrous ratings mean big trouble, average ratings mean business as usual, and great ratings mean expansion and increased athletic legitimacy. That's why a lot hinges on this card compared to others like the April or September shows.

I would love if RIZIN goes the route of getting investors and venture capital. If they can get russian investors as well, that would be the bomb. Get strategic partners who can get them on tv in different markets. How are the ratings for WMMA doing in Japan, do the fans like it? Or is it being forcefed?
The idea of being dependent solely on one network is a serious liability and failure, and PRIDE suffered because of that.

 

[manboy<3]

Actually a much better "match" lol. Hotta also participated in the first WMMA tourney in history and looked way better than Kandori. She fought MMA on and off til 2012. Bad record but no worked matches. I think she's 49 or 50? Cant't believe I'm evaluating freakshows seriously, but WAR Hotta.

She also fought George Lucas' eldest daughter.


Edit: In case anyone's wondering, Kandori broke a rib in sparring. Post menopausal bone density decreases?




Yeah the injury rates for these cards have been unreal. A part is obviously due to the reliance on veterans with too much mileage on their bodies, but this time around they're having serious bad luck on top of it.

Woman start losing bone mass in the 30s and by 50 many are on drugs or some kind of managment to stop the decreased bone bone mass from becoming a massive problem

RIZIN already gambled by signing 43 year old senior citizen Miyuu Yamamoto who was promptly submited with a rare jaw crank underlinning her declining health because any decent wrestler who was physcially still capable would have shook that off with ease

I enjoy what RIZIN are doing but putting a 50 yer old female into a fight versus a monster like Gabi is like doing the same thing with a 65 year old man and putting him in there against Cain Velasques which would be quite incredible if RIZIN did it but because the public are not really aware of women's health issues RIZIN can get away with it for women

 

[Larisa.]

Ooh. Nice replacement if you ask me. Shame we won't see Kandori, especially after what went down in that conference lol.

 

[Pyreen]

Woman start losing bone mass in the 30s and by 50 many are on drugs or some kind of managment to stop the decreased bone bone mass from becoming a massive problem

Yeah I truly believe that Kandori has if not osteoporosis proper then at the least a significant decrease in bone density, if you consider how the injury happened:

Kandori said she was training offense from the bottom, so she had her sparring partner in her guard. Then, she went to "attack" (wasnt specified whether she attacked with strikes or with a submission attempt or sweep) which led to her "twisting her body", and this caused her to break 2 ribs, the 8th and 9th on her left side. Her doctor (who was at the press conference) explained it happened on the 16th, but since there was no sign of developing callus by yesterday, he declared her unable to fight.
No way such a severe injury happens under those circumstances to an able bodied person. It was probably for her own good that her body broke down before she got in the ring with Gabi.

I would love if RIZIN goes the route of getting investors and venture capital. If they can get russian investors as well, that would be the bomb. Get strategic partners who can get them on tv in different markets. How are the ratings for WMMA doing in Japan, do the fans like it? Or is it being forcefed?
The idea of being dependent solely on one network is a serious liability and failure, and PRIDE suffered because of that.

I agree, diversification means independence. The problem is that businesses are structured differently in Japan, esp. in the entertainment industries (ask Zuffa about that). It's not clear who actually owns RIZIN, and Fuji TV would certainly object to increased financial independence since that would mean less control on their end over RIZIN. Sakakibara seems pretty happy with his current sponsor, but I dont think we'll be seing partners in the sense of ownership stakes, since the various special interest groups that fund RIZIN would not want to share control (and bookkeeping, insight on ties to subsidiary companies etc.) with others.

Concerning WMMA, the fans are totally eating it up. RENA vs Miyuu was billed as the main event over Kron vs Tokoro on the TV broadcast, the fight made Yahoo news' front page, and had a bunch of general media attention with talkshow visits from RENA etc. Gabi Garcia got by far the biggest reaction from the live crowd at the arena, only Cro Cop came close. They actually wanted the Murata vs Nakai fight to be on the undercard, but it got so much attention that they decided to move it all the way up to final non-tournament match on the 29th. Its definitely the new hot topic right now, at least as far as RIZIN is concerned.

 

[kingcillo24]

How are the ratings for WMMA doing in Japan, do the fans like it? Or is it being forcefed?

 

[MilesAbove]

I notice some doin't like how the Carwin "threat" went down. From what I understand of the issue, Carwin essentially just went dark and could have told them a long time ago he had no interest in participating... and just didn't. There is a "Japanese Way" of handling business in MMA. It is often frustrating and difficult to navigate. But just not telling someone you have no intention of fighting... that's just a generally crappy thing to do.

 

[LORDTENSAIMMA]

 

[vᴀᴀʀ.]

 

[wachaken]

A weak away to the NYE event!

 

[Captain Crunch28]

So no more carwin?

 

[Asurah]

Juntaro Ushiku, Naoto Miyazaki, Hiroyuki Ota, Suguru Nii, Taiki Tsuchiya, and Naoyuki Kotani are among those participating in the grappling tournament on the 2nd day

 

[MilesAbove]

Heading out tomorrow night for Tokyo. Rizin put me up in Westin Tokyo with the Aliakbari team. Very cool of them. Got tickets for each day. I decided against being in the corner team because.... to be honest.... I work shows for a living and for once I want to be a 100% fanboy.

 

[kingcillo24]

Heading out tomorrow night for Tokyo. Rizin put me up in Westin Tokyo with the Aliakbari team. Very cool of them. Got tickets for each day. I decided against being in the corner team because.... to be honest.... I work shows for a living and for once I want to be a 100% fanboy.

How many plane tickets and hotel rooms did Rizin give Aliakbari team? Is it a nice hotel?