Reem has a better resume then Cain

[former-monger]

Yea I think alot of the Cain talk is what people feel his potential was vs what he accomplished.

 

[illegalnature]

really? 74% wins are better than 88%?

being stopped 15 times is better than being stopped 2X?

NO UFC or PRIDE HW titles wins is better than 5?

now wanna average out the average rnk of win?

THERE IS LITERALLY NO WAY TO CLAIM OVEREEMS IS BETTER IF YOU PROPERLY SCALE THEM.

I know who to call (and he doesnt even like Cain):

@Taric

If cain was healthy enough to show up for atleast 30 fights he would have more L's too. He got the belt from Lesnar and lost it JDS then fought him twice more and bigfoot twice he's had 5 fights with only 2 people both of whom fought Reem and JDS got ko'd in 1st rnd as well bigfoot fight he would win in a rematch. He lost to browne and i think Rothwell who Cain beat but he's beat Werdum twice who beat Cain and is better than Rothwell and Browne.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

- wasnt exactly embarrassed by losing in 4 rds to the champ some call a top 5 all time.
- beat browne, who beat Overeem, right about when you were intro'd to the sport.
- hang around a while, watch some old fights, you will catch up.

I was joking. I have been watching MMA for many years.

Cain has 16 fights. Overeem has 59 in MMA plus 14 in K-1 (at the highest level).

The comparison is off. Throw Cain in there 50 more times and we can talk about who have a better career.

 

[fzoid4454]

The weakest HW top 10 is right now. When Ben Rothwell is considered 6th best fighter on the roster, you know shit has gone bad.

"Has gone bad"...... when was the HW division ever any good in the UFC? For all the bitching about the little guys, the heavyweights have always been the weakest.

 

[Taric]

"Has gone bad"...... when was the HW division ever any good in the UFC? For all the bitching about the little guys, the heavyweights have always been the weakest.

Your problem is your argument is based "in the UFC". Until 2013 there has always been multiple organizations with quality HW talent.
Now that the UFC literally has a monopoly on the HW talent in MMA, everyone has gotten old and nobody young is coming up to take over. That's why guys like Rothwell are considered top talent now but never cracked the top 20 before.

 

[fzoid4454]

Your problem is your argument is based "in the UFC". Until 2013 there has always been multiple organizations with quality HW talent.
Now that the UFC literally has a monopoly on the HW talent in MMA, everyone has gotten old and nobody young is coming up to take over. That's why guys like Rothwell are considered top talent now but never cracked the top 20 before.

An excellent point. Pointing to current UFC rankings is what made me think it was UFC specific. Peace.

 

[Der Eisbär]

Not a very popular opinion but upon looking at their records.

Cain Velasquez

-Lesnar
-JDS x2
-Bigfoot x2
-Big Nog
-Travis


Alistair Overeem

-Werdum x2
-Lesnar
-Frank
-Mark Hunt x2
-Arlovski
-JDS


Both guys have their issues though. Reem doesn't have the greatest chin, and Cain is always injured. Cain has been fighting for over 12 years, yet he only has 16 fights, while Overeem has been fighting for 18 years and has 59 MMA fights. Cain got the UFC belt, which is the only argument that he has over Reem. Reem had harder competition. He had to fight Stipe and Werdum, while Cain was fighting Bigfoot and JDS.

Who in your opinion has the better resume? Who would win if they fought today?

Yes of course he does. He's constantly fighting the best in the world while Cain is constantly injured

 

[thatguy1010]

tbh stipe and werdum also both have better resumes than cain, it's not difficult to achieve because the cunt is injured 365 days a year

the man has all the talent in the world and really would've gone down as the best of all time, but he had to go train at aka

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Rothwell, Bigfoot and Browne are on Overeem's record too.

only as losses.

and yes, Chuck is overrated.

if UFC from 2010-2017 is, according to you,

"a small pond",

then it was a birdbath 200-2005.

so what happened when Chuck became an international jet-setter, like Overeem?

he beat Overeem, then got whupped.

dont get me wrong, i loved the "Ubereem: version- and wanted him to fight Fedor.

but he was shockingly disappointing vs Werdum in Strikeforce (many thought he lost that fight, and would have if Werdum didnt keep flopping)

sorry bro, thats just how it all happened.

i didn't say the UFC as a whole was a small pond, but their HW division? it's nothing to brag about, especially when you've been fighting for 7 years and you haven't even fought all of the guys in the top 10.

it was actually a bigger pond in 2005 because Chuck actually went to Pride and fought the best there also. the same way the 70's HW division of boxing was deeper than the 2000's HW division, the "newest" era doesn't mean it has the deepest talent pool, because UFC will never allow Bellator fighters to fight in the UFC to see who really is the best.

yeah, disappointing loss in a boring fight is better than getting completely destroyed by the same guy who's just much older now like Cain did.

yeah, Chuck lost, that's my whole point. just because you lose doesn't mean you suck. you people who get stuck up on numbers on a piece of paper don't really get it. Overeem has evolved as a fighter multiple times over the course of more than a decade of fighting, he's fought champions from many organizations in many different disciplines. Cain is the same sloppy brawler who's main asset is his heart that just pushes him on he was 7 years ago.

Cain is a tough guy, but because of his injuries, his inactivity, and the UFC's ability to protect him has really hampered his career more than helped it in my opinion.

 

[fzoid4454]

tbh stipe and werdum also both have better resumes than cain, it's not difficult to achieve because the cunt is injured 365 days a year

the man has all the talent in the world and really would've gone down as the best of all time, but he had to go train at aka

Totally, totally false and exaggerated. There's that one day each year when he's healthy enough to go back into training and get injured again.

 

[One MMA Fan]

If I really take a look at those fights circumstances I will go with Cain.

Might also be a tad close to the situation.

 

[SCTwins]

probably the last time i respond, but he brings up a fair point:



this in general is true- a fighter at the end is bound to have more losses- so i already did a head to head comparison of 16 fights, and Cain dramatically was more impressive.

if you cant see that even early on,
Overeem was more prone to lose,

AN D THEREFORE NOT AS GOOD,

I DONT KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

Relax.

I never said Reem was better.

 

[pick999]

His best win was vs over the hill jds and brock.

 

[mrbaapt]

Getting ko'd by travis, bigfoot, and Rothwell are pretty big negatives.

Considering Cain murked all of them yes indeed.

 

[ostlerrage]

Cain would beat the reem into a living death. Unless he gets in a low percentage strike like dos santos did.

 

[mrbaapt]

Alistair Overeem

-Werdum x2

Reem fought Werdum 3 times. He got subbed in the first one at a time when Werdum had no striking at all.

 

[frederick]

Facts.

Counting losses at HW with a guy who's stayed active since Pride and a guy who fights as often as an eclipse is simply ridiculous.

In that case you can use win %, in which case Cain's is much better.

 

[One MMA Fan]

His best win was vs over the hill jds and brock.

And Brock that was just a few months after having part of his guts removed and was talking with his wife about retirement.. all this count, he put up the most half ass performance in his career in that fight.

 

[DoopidyDawesome]

Cain has like 8 career fights and 3 of them were against JDS. Reem should have a better resume ffs.

 

[Mr Wings]

For comparison:

Cain has more title defenses (4-2 in title fights vs 1-2 for Reem), Overeem has more top ten wins (12 vs Cain's 7), they both have the same number of top 5 wins (5), Cain has a somewhat higher win percentage (87% vs 76% for Reem).

So they both have strong arguments for superior GOATness, though Cain has the edge in my opinion, mostly because of his success in UFC title fights.


CAIN: 14-2 (87% wins)

Title fight record in MMA: 4-2 (UFC Brock;Jr.; Jr.;Silva.

Number of top 5 wins: 5. Nogueira (#4 SD), Lesnar (#1 FM), JDS (#1 SD 10/1/12), Silva 2nd fight (#5 3/1/13), JDS (#2 FM 10/1/13).

Number of top 10 wins, including top 5 wins: 7. Silva 1st fight (#8 FM 4/1/12), Travis Browne (#8 FM 7/1/16).


OVEREEM: 43-15 (76% wins)

Title fight record in MMA: 2-1 (Strikeforce, Buentello [#25HW FM, unranked SD]; Rogers [#8]).

Titles outside of MMA: K1 Grand Prix champion.

Number of consecutive title defenses: 1.

Top 5 wins: 5. Vitor '05 (#4 LHW), Werdum '11 (#3HW), Lesnar '11 (#5HW), Dos Santos '15 (#3HW), Werdum '17 (#2HW).

Top 10 wins: 12, including his top 5 wins. Sherdog and FM ranks. Sergei '06 (#7 HW), Vitor '06 (#10LHW), Rogers '10 (#8HW), Mir '14 (#8HW), Nelson '15 (#9HW), Arlovski '16 (#6HW), Hunt '17 (#6 FM).

Number of former/current/future champions defeated: 6, one of them twice. Vitor 2x, Werdum, Lesnar, Mir, Dos Santos, and Arlovski.