Reem has a better resume then Cain

[leatherneck]

Who gets into college football bowl games, and who is ranked and who isn't, is based entirely on votes (BCS ranking). It's a totally different system that honestly nobody really understands.

Happy to help you out.

come on man.

youre too smart to play dumb.

what i did was explain the criteria the voters use, which has been well established.

as afar as im concerned, the phoenix suns are the best basketball team- wins over the Jordan-Bulls, Showtime Lakers, and Golden state.

WOULD ANYONE EVER AGREE? NO.

Because in the same number of games, the Suns had too many losses, therefore didnt win a title.
Zero-sum game.

its almost embarrassing youre this tied to that failing argument, not sure why.

(guess its due to your insistence Nog was so good. fuck. shouldnt have said it. plz ignore)

 

[Taric]

so take BOTH of their tp 10 opponents- what were the rankings of these opponents, and what was their record against them?

(i dont know how to do this, but i know you are quick and honest about it)

now tell me how Overeem is better.

Cain's top 10 HW victories:
Nogueira
Lesnar
Bigfoot 1
JDS 1
Bigfoot 2
JDS 2
Browne
For total of 7

Overeem's top 10 HW victories:
Werdum 1
Lesnar
JDS
Arlovski
Hunt 2
Werdum 2
For a total of 6


So there ya go. I guess Cain has a better record.

 

[leatherneck]

I started watching teh UFC in 2014 and since that he was embarassed by Werdum and beat Travis Browne who everybody beats these days.

I thought this Cain was retired or something.

- wasnt exactly embarrassed by losing in 4 rds to the champ some call a top 5 all time.
- beat browne, who beat Overeem, right about when you were intro'd to the sport.
- hang around a while, watch some old fights, you will catch up.

 

[leatherneck]

Who is this Cain guy everybody is talking about?
I started watching teh UFC in 2014 and since that he was embarassed by Werdum and beat Travis Browne who everybody beats these days.

I thought this Cain was retired or something.

Cain's top 10 victories:
Nogueira
Lesnar
Bigfoot 1
JDS 1
Bigfoot 2
JDS 2
Browne
For total of 7

Overeem's top 10 victories:
Werdum 1
Lesnar
JDS
Arlovski
Hunt 2
Werdum 2
For a total of 6


So there ya go. I guess Cain has a better record.

thats NOT what i asked you to do, ewhich im sure would have been musch worse.

(fuck, you are amazingly fast at that)

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Reem is a juicehead

 

[leatherneck]

sorry, TS.

i called in a lifeline, and he agreed with you, not me.

upon his impressively quick n accurate research,

he switched positions.

Cain's defense rests.

(and Cain needs his rest)

upon research,

Cain's top 10 HW victories:
Nogueira
Lesnar
Bigfoot 1
JDS 1
Bigfoot 2
JDS 2
Browne
For total of 7

Overeem's top 10 HW victories:
Werdum 1
Lesnar
JDS
Arlovski
Hunt 2
Werdum 2
For a total of 6


So there ya go. I guess Cain has a better record.

 

[Taric]

thats NOT what i asked you to do, ewhich im sure would have been musch worse.

(fuck, you are amazingly fast at that)

I dunno what you wanted, but the above is how I determine all-time rankings.

 

[Taric]

he switched positions.

My position was they were about equal but JDS has a better resume than both, actually.

 

[g*r*b]

All the talk of resumes and fancy dancing with statistics can not wipe my mind of the fact that less than four months after Overeem was KTFO by Bigfoot Silva, Bigfoot got creamed by Velasquez in one and a half minutes.

 

[fzoid4454]

Not a very popular opinion but upon looking at their records.

Cain Velasquez

-Lesnar
-JDS x2
-Bigfoot x2
-Big Nog
-Travis


Alistair Overeem

-Werdum x2
-Lesnar
-Frank
-Mark Hunt x2
-Arlovski
-JDS


Both guys have their issues though. Reem doesn't have the greatest chin, and Cain is always injured. Cain has been fighting for over 12 years, yet he only has 16 fights, while Overeem has been fighting for 18 years and has 59 MMA fights. Cain got the UFC belt, which is the only argument that he has over Reem. Reem had harder competition. He had to fight Stipe and Werdum, while Cain was fighting Bigfoot and JDS.

Who in your opinion has the better resume? Who would win if they fought today?

So...... losses don’t matter?

 

[Pied Piper]

Not a very popular opinion but upon looking at their records.

Cain Velasquez

-Lesnar
-JDS x2
-Bigfoot x2
-Big Nog
-Travis


Alistair Overeem

-Werdum x2
-Lesnar
-Frank
-Mark Hunt x2
-Arlovski
-JDS


Both guys have their issues though. Reem doesn't have the greatest chin, and Cain is always injured. Cain has been fighting for over 12 years, yet he only has 16 fights, while Overeem has been fighting for 18 years and has 59 MMA fights. Cain got the UFC belt, which is the only argument that he has over Reem. Reem had harder competition. He had to fight Stipe and Werdum, while Cain was fighting Bigfoot and JDS.

Who in your opinion has the better resume? Who would win if they fought today?

-Reem
-Big Nog
-Prime Bigfoot
-Travis Browne
-Roy Nelson
-Mark Hunt
-Cain
-Fedor

 

[Taric]

All the talk of resumes and fancy dancing with statistics can not wipe my mind of the fact that less than four months after Overeem was KTFO by Bigfoot Silva, Bigfoot got creamed by Velasquez in one and a half minutes.

Jose Aldo was recently murked by Max Holloway... Aldo has a vastly superior resume regardless.

 

[Taric]

View attachment 280053
-Reem
-Big Nog
-Prime Bigfoot
-Roy Nelson
-Mark Hunt
-Travis Browne
-Cain
-Fedor

Werdum's resume is so far ahead of Cain and Reem's they aren't even in the same league.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Quality is pretty simple honestly. Were they a top 10 fighter at the time of the fight, or were they not.

Were they top 10 at a time when hw was the weakest in mma?

How many top 5 or top 3 wins do they each have?

Cain has beaten two reigning champions, Reem zero.

 

[leatherneck]

My position was they were about equal but JDS has a better resume than both, actually.

i could find old arguments between us where i claimed JDS was 2nd best HW and you were pissed. true story.
its when i learned your penchant for record searching.

I dunno what you wanted, but the above is how I determine all-time rankings.

i wanted the 10 BEST OPPONENTS THEY HAD, THEIR RANKS, AND RECORDS.

example:

Reem's 10 best were:


Reem's 10 best were:

a ranked 1
b ranked 1
c ranked 5
d ranked 5
e ranmked 6
f ranked 7
g ranked 7
h ranked 7
i ranked 8
j ranked 9
k ranked 10

Cain's best opponents were:

a ranked 1
b ranked 1
c ranked 1
d ranked 1
e ranmked 1
f ranked 2
g ranked 4
h ranked 7
i ranked 8
j ranked 9
k ranked 10

Ovewreem's avg best opponet= 5.5, won 50% of the fights

Cains avg best opponent = 3.2, won 90% of fights

INMO, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO JUDGE 2 FIGHTERS W/O THE SAME # OF FIGHTS DURING THE SAME TIME PERIOD, AND IT STILL HAS FLAWS

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I'd much rather have Reem as champ or at least getting title shots. At least he shows up and his fights tend to end in KO's, one way or the other. Senor Shelf Time should just retire, basically.

 

[Taric]

i could find old arguments between us where i claimed JDS was 2nd best HW and you were pissed. true story.
its when i learned your penchant for record searching.

'cause it's ridiculous. JDS has a great resume, but it's not at the level of Fedor/Nog/Werdum who are clearly ahead of everyone else.

i wanted the 10 BEST OPPONENTS THEY HAD, THEIR RANKS, AND RECORDS.

example:

Reem's 10 best were:


Reem's 10 best were:

a ranked 1
b ranked 1
c ranked 5
d ranked 5
e ranmked 6
f ranked 7
g ranked 7
h ranked 7
i ranked 8
j ranked 9
k ranked 10

Cain's best opponents were:

a ranked 1
b ranked 1
c ranked 1
d ranked 1
e ranmked 1
f ranked 2
g ranked 4
h ranked 7
i ranked 8
j ranked 9
k ranked 10

Ovewreem's avg best opponet= 5.5, won 50% of the fights

Cains avg best opponent = 3.2, won 90% of fights

INMO, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO JUDGE 2 FIGHTERS W/O THE SAME # OF FIGHTS DURING THE SAME TIME PERIOD, AND IT STILL HAS FLAWS

Sounds like a lot of work. I welcome you to champion your own cause.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Losses definitely count in a resume, but they need to be taken in the context of competition and career length. Some guys start MMA earlier, some fight way past their expiration date, etc...all those things impact winning percentage.

Also, longevity definitely counts in analyzing a resume.

Cain had a better peak and is more consistent within-career. Overeem had *way* better longevity.

Their top wins are within striking distance of one another. IMO Cain has the best wins (JDS), but Overeem might have a few more high-quality wins, depending on how you define it (he also has two wins over Vitor...albeit Pride Vitor and also Sergei and Igor).

To me, Overeem's crushing longevity advantage outweighs Cain's advantages. But YMMV.

 

[Taric]

Were they top 10 at a time when hw was the weakest in mma?

The weakest HW top 10 is right now. When Ben Rothwell is considered 6th best fighter on the roster, you know shit has gone bad.

 

[UFC=Pride]

Well Cain doesn't fight so that's not a fair comparison