Open Letter From Stonewall Jackson's Great-Great Grandsons: The Monuments Must Go

[Captain Davis]

Don't know how many times we have to go over this but...

The difference is Jefferson is more than a just a slave owner.

While the Declaration of Independence is a great document the main reason we celebrate the founding fathers is because they created the most perfect form of government the world has known.

The idea that democracy could work without some kind of monarchy to lead was inconceivable in Europe and that thought was pretty prevalent up until WWII which is why Facism took off. They were able to replace the Establishment monarch with the Alternative Autocracy.

Jefferson had a big hand in crafting this government.

The Confederacy has none of those things. They led a bloody and violent revolt for the mere fact that they feared slavery would go away.

All of the Southern Declarations of Independence are basically Copy and Pastes of the original DOI while also typing in BOLD that they must protect the "Peculiar Institution".

It should also be pointed out that most of these statutes and memorials were built 50+ years after the Civil War in an attempt to rewrite the history of the war as well as help enforce and embolden Jim Crow laws and segregation.

Jefferson was a flawed man who accomplished great things that last to this very day.

Confederacy = traitors who accomplished nothing but bloodshed.

I mostly agree with you here, (except the whole "traitor" thing) but eventually, those Jefferson statues and monuments will be on the chopping block. Then they will be after anyone else who was a slave owner.

At this time in our country, race and/or bigotry is the Communism of the 70's and 80's.

Being called a racist is the worst possible label one can receive. In the politically correct times we are in, erasing any memory of our slave holding past will take precedence over any achievements.

 

[Rational Poster]

Just because they are relatives, doesn't mean they know history. I know nothing of their background besides that they are descendants.

It sounds good though.

What about Lee himself, does he count in this argument?

Dear Sir--Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully,
Your obedient servant,
R. E. Lee.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Yes, I am aware of the differences. My point is, will people pushing for this care about the differences, once they have no more Confederate monuments to bitch about?

You really think it's that unlikely, that the same people pushing for this won't curb the definition for "symbol of racism"? Have you heard what this generation complains about when it comes to racism? You really think slave owners are off the table, because they founded the country? Ha!

To ignore the possibility of this leading down a very slippery slope, is disingenuous.

Even if they do so what?

It adds no weight to the argument that we shouldn't take down symbols that were put up purely for racist reasons.

If someone wants to argue taking down memorials for the founding fathers I'll argue against them. And I'm sure there will be unreasonable people on that side just like the unreasonable people that want to keep up Confederate statues today.

 

[Captain Davis]

It should end there. I doubt it will though. That line is going to become very blurry.

You are absolutely right. It's coming.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It should end there. I doubt it will though. That line is going to become very blurry.

"Honoring Confederates is stupid", is going to become "Honoring slave owners is stupid".

I think thinking that it's going to extend is stupid, but if we have broad agreement, why not move forward? Seems bizarre for someone to argue against his own position out of fear of a slippery slope.

 

[Captain Davis]

What about Lee himself, does he count in this argument?

Dear Sir--Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully,
Your obedient servant,
R. E. Lee.

I agree that Confederate monuments be in museums or private property.

I just don't consider relatives of a Confederate General experts in history, just because they are descendants.

I don't believe Confederate monuments have a place in current government property or public property if it's an issue.

If it's on public property and it's not an issue, than no big deal.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Because someone thinks differently than you they are infected, diseased.......

That thinking is the root cause to many our problems.

This

 

[Captain Davis]

Robert E. Lee himself thought that there shouldn't be any commemoration of the war either. He's just one guy of course but he's also the very subject of many of these statues.

I think it's ironic that people debate to keep up statues of a man who didn't think there should be any statues of himself or symbols of the conflict he fought in.

Of course, I'm sure other leaders of the era had their own opinions on that.

Again, I'm not for Confederate monuments being displayed where they are not wanted.

I don't know why I keep getting quoted on this.

I simply don't believe descendants of a popular figure are experts based on lineage.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

The founding fathers all owned slaves,

no they didnt. most, but not all.

so where does it end when they have no more Confederate statues to complain about?

i think confederate leaders are fair game, but thats it. the civil war is more complicated than slavery....but not much more. nazi germany was more complicated than killing jewish people, but its totally fair for jewish people to not want to see their shit around town, especially on municipal and state property lol.

 

[panamaican]

Again, I'm not for Confederate monuments being displayed where they are not wanted.

I don't know why I keep getting quoted on this.

I simply don't believe descendants of a popular figure are experts based on lineage.

Fair enough.

 

[SaiWa]

It should end there. I doubt it will though. That line is going to become very blurry.

"Honoring Confederates is stupid", is going to become "Honoring slave owners is stupid".

And I will be one of the first to fight against that line of slippery slope bullshit.

Rest assured that there are plenty of leftists and or semi-leftists who will stand against this kind of non-sense.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

Dang. Cucked by his own grandkids.

 

[Chris Kyle is a liar]

It's a complicated issue, and it's not so much the removal of confederate statues that's the main issue, it's where the "symbol of racism" line gets drawn. The founding fathers all owned slaves, and likely raped and beat the shit out of them quite regularly, so where does it end when they have no more Confederate statues to complain about?

No offense but that's such a stupid argument that I can't respect any person that makes it.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

It's a complicated issue, and it's not so much the removal of confederate statues that's the main issue, it's where the "symbol of racism" line gets drawn. The founding fathers all owned slaves, and likely raped and beat the shit out of them quite regularly, so where does it end when they have no more Confederate statues to complain about?

The reasons behind the Civil War were complex and not simply a case of the virtuous North vs the vile slave owning South. You can thank the White Supremacists-Segregationists in the 1940's, 50's and 60's though as they utilized Confederate symbols as they and the Confederates had similar goals, that is, opposition to any "change the south's racial status quo." Now the symbols of the confederacy will forever be linked to hate and white dominance over blacks.

 

[Chris Kyle is a liar]

I mostly agree with you here, (except the whole "traitor" thing) but eventually, those Jefferson statues and monuments will be on the chopping block. Then they will be after anyone else who was a slave owner.

At this time in our country, race and/or bigotry is the Communism of the 70's and 80's.

Being called a racist is the worst possible label one can receive. In the politically correct times we are in, erasing any memory of our slave holding past will take precedence over any achievements.

Jefferson didn't fight for the right to own slaves though. That's the issue with the confederate statues. It would be as if England decided to put Washington and Franklyn statues everywhere

 

[Madmick]

Here's a tenured professor of history:

The whole point of Confederate monuments is to celebrate white supremacy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...brate-white-supremacy/?utm_term=.4c2f8c35d451


And two more:


Removal of Confederate monuments doesn’t erase history, professor says

http://wncn.com/2017/08/15/removal-of-confederate-monuments-doesnt-erase-history-professor-says/

And the Dean of the Department of History at UVA



http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/are-removing-confederate-monuments-erasing-history-n750526

Even I don't trust academia on issues like this, anymore. We've all seen how easy it is to find deranged professors who seek out narratives due to crippling confirmation bias. They may be more articulate and erudite confirmation biases, but the principle holds.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Robert E. Lee himself thought that there shouldn't be any commemoration of the war either. He's just one guy of course but he's also the very subject of many of these statues.

I think it's ironic that people debate to keep up statues of a man who didn't think there should be any statues of himself or symbols of the conflict he fought in.

Of course, I'm sure other leaders of the era had their own opinions on that.

Isn't this sort of thing relatively common throughout history? Famous leader dies, says he totally doesn't want a bitchin' mausoleum made for him (or any sort of monument, or whatever), yet his people go and do it anyway? I'm drawing a blank on the exact examples that spring to my mind, but I can recall reading about at least a few instances at some point or another. Sometimes it goes beyond the individuals own wishes, in that they've become such a public figure that people will revere them whether they wish to be, or not.

edit: For clarification sake, I think the current statue hysteria should simply be a local issue. If the residents of X city want to build or remove a monument to Some Guy From The Past, then so be it, let the residents there have their say via some sort of small referendum.

 

[Captain Davis]

Jefferson didn't fight for the right to own slaves though. That's the issue with the confederate statues. It would be as if England decided to put Washington and Franklyn statues everywhere

We will see.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

The attacks on confederate statues are a part of a bigger cultural war.

These foreign funded subversive groups hate America, want to erase its history and rebuild the country in their own image the way Bolsheiviks did.

They burn the American flag at protests. They tried to get people to sit during national anthems, but it failed and now they want national anthems to be removed from sporting events. They are destroying confederate statues now, but also calling for founding father statues to be removed too. Subversive groups like Nation of Islam are giving out pamphlets to schoolchildren about how racist Mount Rushmore is.

They will not rest until America is erased and replaced with their own "utopia"

 

[Rod1]

It's a complicated issue, and it's not so much the removal of confederate statues that's the main issue, it's where the "symbol of racism" line gets drawn. The founding fathers all owned slaves, and likely raped and beat the shit out of them quite regularly, so where does it end when they have no more Confederate statues to complain about?

The founding fathers didnt revolted because Britain banned slavery.