No small joint manipulation/Aikido in UFC?

[Alexandergreat3]

Real full-contact competition versus real full contact street fighting are two different entitys.

If you're talking about using weapons like knifes and guns on the street, then yes, full-contact competition is different from street fighting. However, if you're just referring to just bare hand fighting with no rules of street fights, then they're not different at all. Remember, there were no rules in the early UFC days. The same is true for Vale Tudo fights in Brazil. There is basically no rules, so it is street fighting, except you don't kill your opponent.

The samurai era Aikido was meant to maim and cripple your opponent, techniques like trapping an arm and driving a knee into the back of the elbow, hence completely breaking the arm.

I don't know about the Samurai era Aikido - does anyone really know for sure, or are they just going by stories?

At any rate, modern day Aikido is also meant to maim and cripple the opponent. The concept and theories are there. The problem is, they're just concept and theories. It's easier to say that they can break someone's arms and legs using so and so techniques than to actually do them in a real situation.

They say the same thing in Ninjitsu (LOL!) and Krav Maga - maim and cripple the opponent. They say the same thing in Karate - they want to focus one punch to knockout the opponent.

On the street id use these techniques way before id use modern bjj arm bars, etc..

This is what a real street fighting would look like (without weapons):

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The fancy Aikido stuffs would never work. Fundamental striking, wrestling, and BJJ will.

In sport however, yes you are correct in that the Aikido we see today would be ineffective in an MMA fight, which is why modern bjj would be much more effective.

There is a time and place where any martial arts technique can be effective, it just depends on the situation imo.

I'm just going by what can be proven, and to me, if a martial art does not work in a 1 vs 1 fight with no rules (early UFC / Vale Tudo), then it will not work in a bare hand street fight, because they're basically the same thing.

 

[Jing]

Actually doing a bit of European Longsword fighting has done wonders for my footwork and distance awareness.

Same is true of Fencing. He knows fuck all and tries to mask it with jokes.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

The manipulation of the joints are the same on a broad scope. A technique is a technique no matter what martial art it's being used by. The majority of them have been handed down from JJ and that applies to BBJ and Judo too.

I'm fully aware of that. BJJ came from Judo, and Judo came from JJ, etc.

The thing that I'm trying to get at is this: BJJ and Judo test their techniques in real situations (full contact competitions) and make changes to their techniques.

Aikido do not test their techniques in real situations (ie no full contact competitions), so they have no way of knowing which techniques are effective and which aren't. As the result, Aikido is filled with useless stuffs and cannot evolve.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

Same is true of Fencing. He knows fuck all and tries to mask it with jokes.

Keep practicing your Aikido and live in your fantasy land.

 

[SilvaP4P]

The Seagal Slap :icon_chee

 

[Alexandergreat3]

In the age of the internet, where EVERYTHING can be recorded I can very easily find footage of a Judo or BJJ guy beating an Aikido guy. Yet, I can't find video of an Aikido guy beating anyone that's not some pretty little demo against a compliant partner. It's not enough to TELL me it works. I want evidence.

Sorry bro, the real Aikido techniques have been lost since the Samurais were wiped out... :wink:

 

[Alexandergreat3]

I do kali stick fighting two to three times a week; its amazing how its helped with my boxing footwork, hand speed, and punching accuracy.

By the way this is a great thread; ive enjoyed the discussion on here with you guys, nice change from the 'usual' sherdog norm lol.

Same here :icon_chee. We do get TMA discussions at least once a month, though.

 

[NILLI]

Again like the UFC 1 never happened. Aikido is useless...

 

[Reach4theSky]

Seeing a fight stopped cause of a broken finger would suck.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

The Seagal Slap :icon_chee

That's one deadly technique :icon_lol:.

 

[Jing]

I'm not manipulating anything. What you said is pretty meaningless in terms of proving how Aikido work in a real hand combat.

The stories of Samurais fighting on the battlefield does nothing more than painting a Hollywood-esque image that isn't real.

It's basically the same things as those who try to say that Kung Fu is effective and point to stories of "Shaolin Monks fighting against thousands of soldiers on the battlefield," while they're unable to show ONE single shred of evidence of its effectiveness in modern fighting.

There's no denying that historical fact no matter how much you try to downplay it by comparing it to fairy tales told by the Chinese or how everything relates to movies to you, you're completely wrong and invoke logical phallacys at every turn.

 

[Jing]

I do kali stick fighting two to three times a week; its amazing how its helped with my boxing footwork, hand speed, and punching accuracy.

By the way this is a great thread; ive enjoyed the discussion on here with you guys, nice change from the 'usual' sherdog norm lol.

I'm not gonna believe kali works until I see you hit a guy in the head with a stick.

 

[NILLI]

I think everybody wants to think that something they train works in real life. Hell I would not want to find out that I have wasted my life on something utterly useless. That is what happened in UFC 1 to many "sensei's". If you don't have real contact in training you can throw your "training" out of the window. Why do you think wrestling was so successful and still is in mma? Even tho it was not considered a combat sport. In wrestling you don't train useless crap you train things that actually work against real athletes. Wrestling was closer to real fighting than any Aikido crap could ever be.

 

[Bargey]

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Lol that guy thinks he's Wang from Tekken.

 

[Groundmaster]

Same is true of Fencing. He knows fuck all and tries to mask it with jokes.

he actually wrote:

I don't know much about Euro Longsword, but the footwork and distance awareness in fencing seem like they can transfer over to MMA.

So yes he is with you here. Problem is, timing, cardio and footwork can as well be learned boxing or playing tennis, the latter will however not help you with many other things needed in hand to hand combat while the former will.

So for self defense purposes boxing > tennis.

 

[Groundmaster]

I do kali stick fighting

Is Kali popular in Japan? I went to Kali lessons two or three times had a shit instructor (well shit for me might have been a good guy for sb else) and generally enjoyed the movement of Longsword fighting much more.

 

[MushroomWizard]

So I just got done training with a gentlemen who is well versed in Aikido as well as Chin Na and we started talking about mma and why mma doesn't accept aikido.

So he told me that Aikido addresses small joint locking as well as restraining opponents in closed space area like in a hallway or a narrow space that doesn't allow the practioner to get in to a fighting stance since according to him, the martial arts that encompesses mma are only applicable in open spaces.

Now I am wondering if he has a point and that Aikido is infact a good martial arts in general?

Also, I was looking at the ufc page and there are some funny rules and they wrote "thereferee" which I assume it should be "the referee" fyi letting you know its not my quoting...

http://www.ufc.ca/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

There are countless Gracie challenege matches where Akido fighters are shown to be the pompous douche bags they are. None of that shit works in a real fight.

No one is going to allow you to manipulate their hands, they will box you. Yes it might work on some random mugger who is not attempting to fight you.

Beyond a few simple weapon disarms / "walk idiot out of bar" moves, that are also in jiu jitsu, there is nothing in Akido that works in a real fight that is not already in BJJ or Judo.

 

[One Inch Punch]

Lol you guys.
A simple search on wikipedia would reveal that Aikido is not some ancient martial arts from the samurai period, but actually invented and developed in the 1920s and 30s by a guy named Morihei Ueshiba. He created this self defense system which aligned with his own personal philosophesies, one of them being to protect yourself without harming your opponent and using their own force against them.
In conclusion it does not sound suitable in mma as this self defense seems to want to avoid confrontation rather than cause it.

 

[stav]

How dumb would you have to be to try and wrist lock somebody who's hands and wrists are already taped up to prevent such movement.

Aoki has a wrist lock submission win in MMA.

Not so stupid i guess.

 

[Furious George]

Lol you guys.
A simple search on wikipedia would reveal that Aikido is not some ancient martial arts from the samurai period, but actually invented and developed in the 1920s and 30s by a guy named Morihei Ueshiba. He created this self defense system which aligned with his own personal philosophesies, one of them being to protect yourself without harming your opponent and using their own force against them.
In conclusion it does not sound suitable in mma as this self defense seems to want to avoid confrontation rather than cause it.

sounds like some school yard "stop hitting yourself" crap to me.