No small joint manipulation/Aikido in UFC?

[Bagatur]

Aikido isn't a legit martial art, end of fucking story. That bullshit does not work.

lol where is it supposed "to work" for feeble minded like you to consider it a legit martial art?

 

[Alexandergreat3]

Do you ever tire of being an ahole?

I'm not here to feed your delusion and tell you what you want to hear. If you like to live in a fantasy world, reality is a bitter pill to swallow.

The footwork they utilized is good enough to avoid sword swipes.

Sword swipes where? In movies like "The Last Samurai"?

Dude, come back down to reality. We're talking about hand-to-hand combat. Let's talk about what has proven to be effective in a REAL full-contact competition against REAL fighters, not training partners in choreographed demos.

 

[Jing]

Proven to work where? "On the battlefield" with swords?

I have not seen one single evidence of the effectiveness of Aikido in a real fight against a real opponent who isn't a training partner.



No it's not the same.

BJJ have proven itself over and over again in full contact competitions at the highest level.

Aikido has not. Aikido students don't even fight each other for real in training.

The manipulation of the joints are the same on a broad scope. A technique is a technique no matter what martial art it's being used by. The majority of them have been handed down from JJ and that applies to BBJ and Judo too.

 

[caesar]

both - I used to work as a bouncer. Fight started in the bar and ended on the street.

And there you have it, the techniques of small joint manipulations can lead to devastating consequences, techniques that would be too brutal for sport MMA.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

So I just got done training with a gentlemen who is well versed in Aikido as well as Chin Na and we started talking about mma and why mma doesn't accept aikido.

So he told me that Aikido addresses small joint locking as well as restraining opponents in closed space area like in a hallway or a narrow space that doesn't allow the practioner to get in to a fighting stance since according to him, the martial arts that encompesses mma are only applicable in open spaces.

Now I am wondering if he has a point and that Aikido is infact a good martial arts in general?

Also, I was looking at the ufc page and there are some funny rules and they wrote "thereferee" which I assume it should be "the referee" fyi letting you know its not my quoting...

http://www.ufc.ca/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

I trained in Aikido for many years.
It would be nearly useless in MMA, even if they allowed such things.

For one, if you took an Aikido guy and put him up against another Aikido guy, they would just stand there and wait for someone to make the first move, in order to react off of it, and they never would, so it would just be pointless.

Second off, I took years of Aikido and wrestling into a Gracie-Barra gym a long time ago and got demolished. Over and over, even by the teenagers at the gym.

Aikido just doesn't work in practical MMA situations where the other person is trained well. Even if small joint locks were allowed.

Now some of the things I learned, I will use while rolling Jiu-Jitsu. The wrist rolls and locks actually can help you, but its very minor in the over-all picture.

Aikido was made for a world that has long since changed.
The most important aspect of it right now,.. is the mentality of it, the way it conditions you. If I did not have that way of thinking, I would have never moved on to other things or I would have been too afraid to fight in new situations.

 

[Jing]

I'm not here to feed your delusion and tell you what you want to hear. If you like to live in a fantasy world, reality is a bitter pill to swallow.



Sword swipes where? In movies like "The Last Samurai"?

Dude, come back down to reality. We're talking about hand-to-hand combat. Let's talk about what has proven to be effective in a REAL full-contact competition against REAL fighters, not training partners in choreographed demos.

No, you're here to feed your own ego and you do so by avoiding and manipulating what I'm saying.

Kendo is the art of the Samurai's. I was simply stating that it too is a proven military art. Just like JJ was used on Samurai's with full armor on and it still works to this day in many martial arts.

 

[Kincaid]

In the age of the internet, where EVERYTHING can be recorded I can very easily find footage of a Judo or BJJ guy beating an Aikido guy. Yet, I can't find video of an Aikido guy beating anyone that's not some pretty little demo against a compliant partner. It's not enough to TELL me it works. I want evidence.

 

[Groundmaster]

By the way, I wonder why the poster above mentioned sword, point fighting when we're talking about hand combat, lol! Must be a kid who thinks Ninjitsu is real. :redface:

Actually doing a bit of European Longsword fighting has done wonders for my footwork and distance awareness.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

You make some valid points here, but Aikido has changed over time. It was effective during the samurai era, but it wasnt the Steven Seagal movie Aikido like we see today.
At that time the Aikido used was heavily linked to Aiki-jujutsu, whereas nowadays you see Kinokawa ryu Aikido, which emphasizes unconditional acceptance and blending of energy (ki).

Aiki-jujutsu's main focus was to mobilize the attacker, trap a limb, etc.., and break it; the techniques are devastating and are incredibly effective.

Maybe so, but we have no way of verifying this.

What I can say based on what I have seen is that Aikido, Jujutsu, etc., have many similar techniques to Judo, and vice versa.

However, the main difference from my observation is that Judo is full contact, and their techniques are constantly put to the test against world class competitions. Because of that, the techniques are constantly evolving, and the effective techniques are used while the ineffective ones are kept out.

On the other hand, Aikido does not test itself. It's like Judo but without the ability to adapt and evolve.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

Actually doing a bit of European Longsword fighting has done wonders for my footwork and distance awareness.

I don't know much about Euro Longsword, but the footwork and distance awareness in fencing seem like they can transfer over to MMA.

 

[Rockomon]

some of the posters underestimating aikido small joint manipulation, should not underestimate the element of surprise. say, a fighter with a good bjj/striking base, that learn one effective aikido move that can disable an opponent, he could catch you off guard because you didnt think aikido can work. if someone trained in one move repititiously 1000000 times, that person can get really good at it.

any well-trained disciplined martial artist can apply techniques from varying arts such as aikido, sumo, ninjitsu, kung fu, and make them effective flashy "finishing moves" simply because the opponents dont expect it, and dont train for it therefore arent prepared for when it happens.

 

[Groundmaster]

No, you're here to feed your own ego and you do so by avoiding and manipulating what I'm saying.

Kendo is the art of the Samurai's. I was simply stating that it too is a proven military art. Just like JJ was used on Samurai's with full armor on and it still works to this day in many martial arts.

And what he is saying is:

- Aikido does not enforce full contact sparring and therefore (like many TMAs) is bound to use 'untested' techniques. Judo and BJJ don't. So while the core might derive from the same system it has developed quite differently

- Kendo does not help you a lot when fighting with your bare hands (and other then footwork and distance which are also trained in lets say boxing) he is right.

He could have said it nicer - but in essence he is right. Let me rephrase it - compared to BJJ/Wrestling/Judo, Aikido does not work well.

 

[Groundmaster]

some of the posters underestimating aikido small joint manipulation, should not underestimate the element of surprise. say, a fighter with a good bjj/striking base, that learn one effective aikido move that can disable an opponent, if he catches you off guard because you didnt think aikido works. you are wrong.

Same can be said about any 'exotic' MA. 9 times out of 10 you would do better to use your time on trying to perfect the basics.

Also TS (I think) was not asking 'are there certain techniques from Aikido that could be applied in MMA' - but: 'can Aikido (as a whole) be successfully applied in MMA'.

To the latter I would say NO.

 

[caesar]

Dude, come back down to reality. We're talking about hand-to-hand combat. Let's talk about what has proven to be effective in a REAL full-contact competition against REAL fighters, not training partners in choreographed demos.

Real full-contact competition versus real full contact street fighting are two different entitys.

The samurai era Aikido was meant to maim and cripple your opponent, techniques like trapping an arm and driving a knee into the back of the elbow, hence completely breaking the arm.

On the street id use these techniques way before id use modern bjj arm bars, etc..

In sport however, yes you are correct in that the Aikido we see today would be ineffective in an MMA fight, which is why modern bjj would be much more effective.

There is a time and place where any martial arts technique can be effective, it just depends on the situation imo.

 

[Groundmaster]

I don't know much about Euro Longsword, but the footwork and distance awareness in fencing seem like they can transfer over to MMA.

Euro Longsword is just like Kendo ;-).

No its fighting with hand and a half blades (straight double edged swords that can be used with one or two hands and weigh between 1.2 and 1.6 kg).

In difference to Kendo it allows for punches throws and kicks (although it is very rare that these are effective - no the foot is NOT faster then the blade) and there are techniques (half blading for example) which where developed to penetrate plate armour (or rather allow you to stab at its weakest spots like the arm pit or the visor).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyqFaS-7xJA

 

[Rockomon]

just look at when lyoto machida KO'd randy couture with a Karate Kid crane kick.
i bet he didnt expected that. lol

 

[Groundmaster]

Real full-contact competition versus real full contact street fighting are two different entitys.

The samurai era Aikido was meant to maim and cripple your opponent, techniques like trapping an arm and driving a knee into the back of the elbow, hence completely breaking the arm.

On the street id use these techniques way before id use modern bjj arm bars, etc..

In sport however, yes you are correct in that the Aikido we see today would be ineffective in an MMA fight, which is why modern bjj would be much more effective.

There is a time and place where any martial arts technique can be effective, it just depends on the situation imo.

The problem Aikido generally has is that it does not put enough focus on controlling your opponents body (through any other means then shock and pain).

This can lead into the Aikido practitioner getting his shit pushed in while applying techniques.

 

[Groundmaster]

just look at when lyoto machida KO'd randy couture with a Karate Kid crane kick.
i bet he didnt expected that. lol

But that was after Machida out kick boxed Randy, making Randy so unsure of himself that he fell for every feint.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

No, you're here to feed your own ego and you do so by avoiding and manipulating what I'm saying.

Kendo is the art of the Samurai's. I was simply stating that it too is a proven military art. Just like JJ was used on Samurai's with full armor on and it still works to this day in many martial arts.

I'm not manipulating anything. What you said is pretty meaningless in terms of proving how Aikido work in a real hand combat.

The stories of Samurais fighting on the battlefield does nothing more than painting a Hollywood-esque image that isn't real.

It's basically the same things as those who try to say that Kung Fu is effective and point to stories of "Shaolin Monks fighting against thousands of soldiers on the battlefield," while they're unable to show ONE single shred of evidence of its effectiveness in modern fighting.

 

[caesar]

I don't know much about Euro Longsword, but the footwork and distance awareness in fencing seem like they can transfer over to MMA.

I do kali stick fighting two to three times a week; its amazing how its helped with my boxing footwork, hand speed, and punching accuracy.

By the way this is a great thread; ive enjoyed the discussion on here with you guys, nice change from the 'usual' sherdog norm lol.