No small joint manipulation/Aikido in UFC?

[Ogata]

The main reason small joint locks don't work in MMA is because in order to complete a submission, you normally need body control over your opponent. You're trying to get a mechanical advantage, pitting most of your strength against an isolated portion of your opponent's anatomy, while maintaining control over the rest of their body. Normally this is done by controlling with the legs, while isolating with the upper body. If you have control over your opponent in this fashion, it is easier, more efficient, and more likely to induce a tap, by isolating an entire limb, than a pinkie finger or toe.

This makes sense actualy! Thank you! this answers my question.

I guess Aikido is better than nothing but judo/wrestling/bjj is better because of the body control that the Aikido training lacks.

Also, thank you to the person that posted the video of "wrestler vs aikido practioner"

Myself being from a boxing background, I tend to be naive in ways of grappling and so, I wasen't trying to wave the Aikido flag but rather understand it. Hence why I wasen't using Steve Seagal as a refrence since despite being at one point a legit martial artist, he seems to be a very unstable person.

 

[Groundmaster]

My question is whether Aikido works

Sometimes. Depending on your opponents pain treshold breaking his finger might incapacitate him - or make him angrier. Also many Aikido 'moves' only work against your average goon charging in like a baffoon swinging wild arm punches.

Unfortunately most self defense techniques don't really work against a determined somewhat knowledgeable opponent - a dangerous opponent in other words.

and that modern mma has gone from self-defense/realism to sport fighting.

Is that even a question?

 

[Groundmaster]

Nobody is using Akido wrist locks and breaks because they aren't effective.

They are effective - they do however often require a two hands on one arm stance without giving you control over your opponents other arm/body/legs - a recipe for getting punched in the face while applying the lock.

 

[caesar]

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Your kidding TS right?

Lol I know this man, he has his students doing all sorts of ridiculous drills while we're on the other side of the dojo doing MMA.

For those of you wondering, Japan has heaps of public martial arts gyms where you can train anytime.

We see him every Tuesday...and in all fairness, he is a kind man, a good human being, and if his students like what he is teaching then so be it.

 

[Graceland]

The octagon is hardly the time and place to hit it and pass it anyway

 

[caesar]

Even if they could break fingers, that probably wouldn't even be so helpful, there have been plenty of cases where fighters keep going with broken hands and even use them to punch. Or they could just elbow the aikido guy into Bolivian.

Have you ever dislocated or broken your thumb before? Give it a try, one of the most painful and lingering injuries ive ever experiened.

I just collapsed in brutal agony, and ive seen others do the same.

 

[Rockomon]

foot stomps to the opponents feet should be illegal too. All it does is cause turf toe, so that the fighter can't train after the fight when he goes back to the gym without being in pain.

 

[caesar]

Wristlocks and even fingerlocks are legal in MMA, but you have to have control of at least four fingers. You can't grab one or two fingers and try to break them. The fact that no one tries these techniques is probably indicative of their usefulness.

I disagree. A krav maga sensei did a seminar where he showed me an incredible mount escape by just grabbing the persons thumb and wrenching it back.

The pain was instant and next thing I know he was in my guard.

How would you know if the technique works or not; have you ever tried 'small joint manipulations'?

They're not done or allowed in 'sport MMA' because youd cripple somebody very quickly.

 

[HumanFund]

It's just that it's super basic if you any knowledge at all of how grappling works. Aikido is a show martial art. It looks cool and badass in demos but is mostly useless in a real situation and is very useless in a situation against someone trained in a real martial art.

Troof.

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The best situation to use aikido in is the "you are Steven Seagal, and 5 smallish golems are shuffling towards you" situation.

 

[papasmurf999]

Ive used aikido in a couple of streetfights because its all about using your opponents momentum against them. There are some aikdo throws that work in mma but to agree with everyone here the joint manipulation would cause needless injuries. Wing chun is also an effective martial art that isnt really used in mma because you have to worry about takedowns. Wing chun is not condusive to fighting a grappler.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

This makes sense actualy! Thank you! this answers my question.

Nexus 6 explained it very well.

I guess Aikido is better than nothing but judo/wrestling/bjj is better because of the body control that the Aikido training lacks.

If you are looking to train grappling and have the opportunity to do so, you won't go wrong with training in wrestling, judo, or bjj. Take all 3 if you can.

If you can only take one for self defense, BJJ is best for 1vs1; wrestling or Judo might go better with your boxing for self defense on the street where you want to remain standing and avoid going to the ground and get stomped on:

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Also, thank you to the person that posted the video of "wrestler vs aikido practioner"

You're welcome. Glad I could be of help. Don't want to see you waste your time training something that is not very useful.

Myself being from a boxing background, I tend to be naive in ways of grappling and so, I wasen't trying to wave the Aikido flag but rather understand it. Hence why I wasen't using Steve Seagal as a refrence since despite being at one point a legit martial artist, he seems to be a very unstable person.

I think we're very lucky as fans of martial arts, because nowadays, we have actual proofs of which martial arts are truly effective by looking at the top fighters at the highest level of full contact fighting, so we can make better decisions when choosing the right martial arts to train in and not waste our time with useless stuffs.

By the way, Seagal is a McDojo martial artist from the late 80s / early 90s. He's not a real fighter. He would get his ass kicked by a wrestler, a BJJ fighter, or a Judoka.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

Lol I know this man, he has his students doing all sorts of ridiculous drills while we're on the other side of the dojo doing MMA.

For those of you wondering, Japan has heaps of public martial arts gyms where you can train anytime.

We see him every Tuesday...and in all fairness, he is a kind man, a good human being, and if his students like what he is teaching then so be it.

LOL, you know him? Small world indeed! :icon_chee

He doesn't seem like a bad person, but he is very delusional. So are his students. :icon_lol:

I think him getting his ass kicked might be a bad thing in the short term, but I think it's good for his students in the long run, as they (hopefully) woke up from their delusions.

 

[DatSamboKid]

I'd say with no disrespect, Aikido is in my top 5 most ineffective bases for MMA.

top 5 being (not in order):

1)Aikido
2)Wing Chun Kung Fu
3)Ninjitsu
4)Sumo
5)Tai-Chi

 

[Alexandergreat3]

I'd say with no disrespect, Aikido is in my top 5 most ineffective bases for MMA.

top 5 being (not in order):

1)Aikido
2)Wing Chun Kung Fu
3)Ninjitsu
4)Sumo
5)Tai-Chi

While a few techniques in Sumo such as slapping is useless, the throws and clinches are very effective and very similar to what you'd find in Judo and freestyle wresting.

Machida uses a lot of Sumo throws in his fights, and they were proven to be very effective. His wrestling background is Sumo wrestling.

 

[caesar]

LOL, you know him? Small world indeed! :icon_chee

He doesn't seem like a bad person, but he is very delusional. So are his students. :icon_lol:

I think him getting his ass kicked might be a bad thing in the short term, but I think it's good for his students in the long run, as they (hopefully) woke up from their delusions.

Yeah small world for sure lol. The funniest drill I see them do is where his students stand in a line, and one by one run up to him, and he knocks them down without touching them, then he uses his hands and mental powers of pressure and keeps his students pinned to the floor .
Its like watching 'hypnotism' lol. His students are mostly women and kids; now hes passing on his brilliant techniques to his son lol.

 

[Groundmaster]

How would you know if the technique works or not; have you ever tried 'small joint manipulations'?

Yes - my finger snapped as did the other guys nose jaw and cheekbone while I smashed his face in with my free hand ( which also broke ).

 

[Alexandergreat3]

Yeah small world for sure lol. The funniest drill I see them do is where his students stand in a line, and one by one run up to him, and he knocks them down without touching them, then he uses his hands and mental powers of pressure and keeps his students pinned to the floor .

Its like watching 'hypnotism' lol. His students are mostly women and kids; now hes passing on his brilliant techniques to his son lol.

Dragon BallZ / Pokemon power, lvl 99!

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

By Small Joint manipulation, they don't mean wrist locks or that bullshit, they mean you can't snap someone's finger or toe in half...

single digit toe locks hurt like a mofo, 1 of my fav dirty grappling moves

 

[xupacabra]

OH god and here we go again.. Aikido too dangerous to be in UFC. This shit never gets old ;D

 

[cade187]

Aikido isn't good against other martial arts, but it's a great self-defense martial art, and almost all North American police have training in Aikido since it is very effective in the way that they use it. I did some when I was younger and thought it was stupid, but it is very effective in limited situations.

Half the time we were training it we were learning things Steven Seagal has done in movies haha.