Minnesota authorities release police dash cam video of Philando Castile shooting.

[DoomPatrol]

If an officer starts shouting, "DON'T REACH FOR IT!!!!!!!" it is time to put your hands up. Doesn't matter what he said before.

And you better react immediately without hesitation or confusion otherwise you deserve to die. Especially if a little girl is right behind you in the line of fire.

 

[lfd0311]

I was pretty critical of this, even after the verdict. You need to give commands of what you want him to do. Not tell him over and over the same thing.

I usually use the "with your thumb and pointer finger, slowly grab (wallet, ID, insurance, etc.)" This works for CCW holders, people who ID as cops carrying and especially the Feds who normally act idiotic on car stops.

Problem seemed be Castille is high and thinking he is complying by reaching for and grabbing his wallet or CCW to show the officer. Meanwhile the officer thinks he's grabbing the gun. Which led to the shooting.

But thats all Monday morning quarterbacking from me.

This is exactly my point. He gave unclear commands. The second he said "I have a gun" all previous interactions should have stopped and the gun itself should have been dealt with. The Officer should have made it know that's what was going on. Instead he just carried on as if everything was ok right up until the moment that he shot him.

 

[lfd0311]

You're forgetting an important element in that imaginary scenario. That element being a cop screaming at him to take his hand out of his pocket, with his gun drawn on him. In that scenario, buddy with the rifle is getting put down if does not comply within five seconds.

You're forgetting that none of that happened in the real scenario we're talking about.

 

[MeatheadMike]

Poor judgment made by both parties, but unfortunately one payed with his life.

Given the circumstances, IMO the cop shouldn't be criminally prosecuted but he also shouldn't be allowed to use a service weapon ever again.

 

[lifelessheap]

And you better react immediately without hesitation or confusion otherwise you deserve to die. Especially if a little girl is right behind you in the line of fire.

Look dude, I think the cop reacted too quickly but we all should have self preservation on our minds. He yelled at the guy 3 times to stop reaching. I personally would have stopped reaching after the first command. My hands would have gone up and I would have said, "Sorry, sorry, sorry..... my bad. What would you like me to do?"

Nobody puts themselves in the shoes of the cops. It isn't an easy job and people are trying to kill them. Mix in the defiant attitudes groups like BLM are instilling in people and it is a recipe for over reactions.

I mean, one of the greatest guys I ever had the pleasure to know was killed in Sacramento on a routine traffic stop. Shot by a black guy while he walked up to the driver's side window.

Lets not pretend that officers have no reason to be on edge.

 

[Tom Steinbeck]

Screw just dash cams, where is the body cam, with everything going on today every single cop should be forced to wear one.

 

[lfd0311]

Look dude, I think the cop reacted too quickly but we all should have self preservation on our minds. He yelled at the guy 3 times to stop reaching. I personally would have stopped reaching after the first command. My hands would have gone up and I would have said, "Sorry, sorry, sorry..... my bad. What would you like me to do?"

Nobody puts themselves in the shoes of the cops. It isn't an easy job and people are trying to kill them. Mix in the defiant attitudes groups like BLM are instilling in people and it is a recipe for over reactions.

I mean, one of the greatest guys I ever had the pleasure to know was killed in Sacramento on a routine traffic stop. Shot by a black guy while he walked up to the driver's side window.

Lets not pretend that officers have no reason to be on edge.

No he didn't. He did not yell at him 3 times. He twice, in a conversational tone said "just don't reach for it". The only time he yelled at him, or gave any sort of indication that something was out of the ordinary was as he was shooting him.

 

[lifelessheap]

No he didn't. He did not yell at him 3 times. He twice, in a conversational tone said "just don't reach for it". The only time he yelled at him, or gave any sort of indication that something was out of the ordinary was as he was shooting him.

Conversational tone? GTFO, the cop said it in a panicked and super serious way.

 

[Bat Dad]

I totally understand it from the cop's perspective, but you don't get that leniency as a professional. You have to be accountable for every round you discharge and being scared is no excuse. I was accountable for my rounds in the military. He should be accountable for his.

You're missing the first few lines of that description for how it went down.

* Cop asks for guys ID (Which is where usually?)
* Guy starts to reach for ID in back pocket. Informs officer of a legal firearm on his person
* Cop gives confusing command to not reach for "it", which he specifically says it in reference to the gun.
* Guy affirms that he isn't reaching for the firearm while continuing to comply with first order for ID
* Cop gets scared of a calm, compliant man and discharges his weapon in the direction of a child.


There's no justification for how he behaved. If there was, he'd still be working there. Just because you get scared during an interaction doesn't mean you get a green light to kill a compliant man on a traffic stop. There needs to be a legitimate deadly threat. Since when is simply being in possession of a firearm an illegal act? So why do cops get to assume anything you do is malicious just because you're in possession of one?

The fact is the cop lied about the situation afterwards. He tried to claim he smelled marijuana, but only 15 hours later during an investigation where he lied about Castile telling him he wasn't pulling the gun out. This is clearly a bad shooting.

He is a human being. We aren't perfect.The cop was nervous and screwed up but so did the guy in the car.I know 2 wrongs etc.. Did the cop fuck up? 100%
But he didn't intend to kill anyone when he pulled them over.So he gets acquitted and loses his job.He is probably facing a civil suit as well and now that he is no longer a cop he most likely will not be indemnified and have to sell his house and basically his life is ruined.

 

[lfd0311]

Conversational tone? GTFO, the cop said it in a panicked and super serious way.

The first two times?! please.

 

[Bat Dad]

Nobody is saying they have to under current law. We're saying it's a stupid fucking law that puts the citizens at extreme risk and there's no accountability for police.

Look at the guy with his hand in his pocket! He's publicly wielding a firearm too! Why aren't the cops heroically gunning him down? He could have a second gun in there and just start blasting!

OK
It's quite apparent now you are just trolling this out or have lost sight of the issue.

 

[HereticBD]

You're forgetting that none of that happened in the real scenario we're talking about.

Yeah, I was responding to a silly hypothetical scenario buddy presented as an argument.

I agree. The actual situation was far different than an old white guy standing in the street with an assault rifle, not being commanded by a police officer to do anything.

 

[peytonlucy]

I do not know what the scene looked like; I watched the video. Much of it can come down to this, was a gun lying on the floor or on the seat, when the car was inspected after they moved the driver (after being shot) out of the car? If the driver was reaching for the gun, when he was shot the gun would have been visible. The police officer shot MULTIPLE times. A gun would need to be out in the open to justify multiple shots. Remember, for the driver to shot the officer, he will have to turn to shoot.

What was visible after they pulled the driver out of the car?

 

[peytonlucy]

Apparently, one source indicates, the gun was still in his pants pocket, even after being dragged out of the car. The officer shot at him 7 times, and the gun never left his pocket. My thorough, ten minute, review makes me think that he should have been found guilty of manslaughter, at a minimum.

I'm curious how the other officer testified.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Look dude, I think the cop reacted too quickly but we all should have self preservation on our minds. He yelled at the guy 3 times to stop reaching. I personally would have stopped reaching after the first command. My hands would have gone up and I would have said, "Sorry, sorry, sorry..... my bad. What would you like me to do?"

Nobody puts themselves in the shoes of the cops. It isn't an easy job and people are trying to kill them. Mix in the defiant attitudes groups like BLM are instilling in people and it is a recipe for over reactions.

I mean, one of the greatest guys I ever had the pleasure to know was killed in Sacramento on a routine traffic stop. Shot by a black guy while he walked up to the driver's side window.

Lets not pretend that officers have no reason to be on edge.

I've been in as similar shoes as it gets. Try doing vehicle checkpoints overseas. I just don't feel bad for them. That one cop you know, if it happened in 2016 was only one of 3 police killings in regular traffic stops out of the 63,000,000 that occurred. Those are their own stats.

On top of that, what you would do isn't how fast and robotic everyone else responds. When it's a minor traffic infraction and there's a child and woman sitting next to a fully calm and compliant man, that extreme reaction is completely unwarranted.

If you pay attention to what's said, the officer clearly states to not grab it. The it in question is referring to the firearm. He's reaching for the damned ID the officer asked for seconds later. And that's further proven by the fact that his firearm was found in his front pocket.

Police need to be held to the highest of standards when it comes to discharging firearms. That officer had zero regard for the safety of the child in his line of fire, and he used confusing commands as pretext to fire.

His excuse was he was high and yet they found no drugs or evidence of drugs. He didn't mention it until 15 hours later. His other excuse is he was a robbery suspect, but then his approach to the vehicle would be negligent. All that to me adds up to a terrible fucking decision.

He is a human being. We aren't perfect.The cop was nervous and screwed up but so did the guy in the car.I know 2 wrongs etc.. Did the cop fuck up? 100%
But he didn't intend to kill anyone when he pulled them over.So he gets acquitted and loses his job.He is probably facing a civil suit as well and now that he is no longer a cop he most likely will not be indemnified and have to sell his house and basically his life is ruined.

The only people I really feel sorry for right now are the victims of his actions. He deserves punishment for what he did. If you negligently kill a person as a civilian, it's manslaughter. Why shouldn't police be held to a higher standard?

 

[lfd0311]

I've been in as similar shoes as it gets. Try doing vehicle checkpoints overseas. I just don't feel bad for them. That one cop you know, if it happened in 2016 was only one of 3 police killings in regular traffic stops out of the 63,000,000 that occurred. Those are their own stats.

On top of that, what you would do isn't how fast and robotic everyone else responds. When it's a minor traffic infraction and there's a child and woman sitting next to a fully calm and compliant man, that extreme reaction is completely unwarranted.

If you pay attention to what's said, the officer clearly states to not grab it. The it in question is referring to the firearm. He's reaching for the damned ID the officer asked for seconds later. And that's further proven by the fact that his firearm was found in his front pocket.

Police need to be held to the highest of standards when it comes to discharging firearms. That officer had zero regard for the safety of the child in his line of fire, and he used confusing commands as pretext to fire.

His excuse was he was high and yet they found no drugs or evidence of drugs. He didn't mention it until 15 hours later. His other excuse is he was a robbery suspect, but then his approach to the vehicle would be negligent. All that to me adds up to a terrible fucking decision.



The only people I really feel sorry for right now are the victims of his actions. He deserves punishment for what he did. If you negligently kill a person as a civilian, it's manslaughter. Why shouldn't police be held to a higher standard?

I think you might be a little unfamiliar with this case. The brake light was just something that was a seqway into stopping him in that they thought he was a suspect in a recent armed robbery. This officer had it in his mind that he was going up to this car to confront and armed criminal and never got that out of his head.

 

[Bagatur]

if they guy had any intention of using that gun, why would he ever tell the cop he has one??? that makes no sense.
wtf, America? just having a gun on you can get you killed? all the cop has to do is say "dont reach for it" and then proceed shooting you dead.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Look dude, I think the cop reacted too quickly but we all should have self preservation on our minds. He yelled at the guy 3 times to stop reaching. I personally would have stopped reaching after the first command. My hands would have gone up and I would have said, "Sorry, sorry, sorry..... my bad. What would you like me to do?"

Nobody puts themselves in the shoes of the cops. It isn't an easy job and people are trying to kill them. Mix in the defiant attitudes groups like BLM are instilling in people and it is a recipe for over reactions.

I mean, one of the greatest guys I ever had the pleasure to know was killed in Sacramento on a routine traffic stop. Shot by a black guy while he walked up to the driver's side window.

Lets not pretend that officers have no reason to be on edge.

I disagree, the public needs to have confidence in their police, who are there to serve them. The danger goes with the territory and it's situations like this, or worse ones, that create movements like BLM. It's a tough job but they are well compensated and know what they're getting into when they take the job. Not everyone is up to the task but it shouldn't take an innocent person getting killed to weed them out.

 

[deadshot138]

I implore everyone who thinks cops should hesitate to use force to go and watch Deputy Kyle Dinkhellers dashcam video on YouTube. I don't know how to imbed or else I would.

 

[IIIIIIII]

if they guy had any intention of using that gun, why would he ever tell the cop he has one??? that makes no sense.
wtf, America? just having a gun on you can get you killed? all the cop has to do is say "dont reach for it" and then proceed shooting you dead.

i agree that the guy in the car never had an intention to use the gun. the only reason i can come up with as to why the guy said it, was to be upfront about what the cop may find in the car.