Minnesota authorities release police dash cam video of Philando Castile shooting.

[LangfordBarrow]

Yeah, this does not happen.

It sounded to me like he said "I'm not gonna pull it out"

 

[HereticBD]

Look at the guy with his hand in his pocket! He's publicly wielding a firearm too! Why aren't the cops heroically gunning him down? He could have a second gun in there and just start blasting!

You're forgetting an important element in that imaginary scenario. That element being a cop screaming at him to take his hand out of his pocket, with his gun drawn on him. In that scenario, buddy with the rifle is getting put down if does not comply within five seconds.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

This is ideal, but unrealistic. I don't know where this notion came from, that cops, once informed of the presence of a firearm, must wait until they actually see a gun before they can act.

Because they need to be in danger to use lethal force. Real not imagined.

 

[Peteyandjia]

It sounded to me like he said "I'm not gonna pull it out"

Fair. I've listened to it a lot of times, and it is hard to make out. He could also have been mumbling. If he was still moving his hands towards his waist though, it really doesn't matter what he said.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

You're forgetting an important element in that imaginary scenario. That element being a cop screaming at him to take his hand out of his pocket, with his gun drawn on him. In that scenario, buddy with the rifle is getting put down if does not comply within five seconds.

Technically the cop didn't say that. He said "Don't pull it out" it being the gun. It's not a clear command to freeze.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Fair. I've listened to it a lot of times, and it is hard to make out. He could also have been mumbling. If he was still moving his hands towards his waist though, it really doesn't matter what he said.

I understand but in the victim's mind he might have been thinking he was just reaching for his license and not pulling out the gun.

 

[HereticBD]

Because they need to be in danger to use lethal force. Real not imagined.

No. They don't actually have to have a gun pointed in their face, before they can act. Sorry, that's fantasy land nonsense.

This kind of reminds me of that other shooting, where the guy had a gun in his hand, was commanded a million times to drop it, but didn't, and got killed. People were arguing that he wasn't a threat because he had the gun pointed at the ground. I have a feeling if he had raised the gun, people would still be defending him, because they couldn't see if his finger was on the trigger or not.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I understand but in the victim's mind he might have been thinking he was just reaching for his license and not pulling out the gun.

I would say that's almost certain. I highly doubt Castile was trying to go out shooting. Very tragic situation.

 

[Protectandserve]

I was pretty critical of this, even after the verdict. You need to give commands of what you want him to do. Not tell him over and over the same thing.

I usually use the "with your thumb and pointer finger, slowly grab (wallet, ID, insurance, etc.)" This works for CCW holders, people who ID as cops carrying and especially the Feds who normally act idiotic on car stops.

Problem seemed be Castille is high and thinking he is complying by reaching for and grabbing his wallet or CCW to show the officer. Meanwhile the officer thinks he's grabbing the gun. Which led to the shooting.

But thats all Monday morning quarterbacking from me.

 

[Toothless King]

This is ideal, but unrealistic. I don't know where this notion came from, that cops, once informed of the presence of a firearm, must wait until they actually see a gun before they can act.

General public needs to watch less Hollywood action movies and watch more Active Self Protection on youtube. Active Self Protection is a youtube site features many real life surveillance videos of gun battles

 

[vespasian]

why even mention he had a gun?! it's sure to make any interaction with a cop 100x worse. Let them find it, if it comes to that.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

No. They don't actually have to have a gun pointed in their face, before they can act. Sorry, that's fantasy land nonsense.

This kind of reminds me of that other shooting, where the guy had a gun in his hand, was commanded a million times to drop it, but didn't, and got killed. People were arguing that he wasn't a threat because he had the gun pointed at the ground. I have a feeling if he had raised the gun, people would still be defending him, because they couldn't see if his finger was on the trigger or not.

A gun in his hand pointed at the ground is being in danger. A gun inside his pocket is not. If he never touched his gun the officer was never in danger.

 

[HereticBD]

A gun in his hand pointed at the ground is being in danger. A gun inside his pocket is not.

It is, if he starts to reach towards his pocket. Which he did.

 

[lifelessheap]

That isn't an excuse. He also said to get his license and registration out. You can't just say "don't reach for it". You need to give precise instructions to people in a situation like that. This was utterly terrible.

If an officer starts shouting, "DON'T REACH FOR IT!!!!!!!" it is time to put your hands up. Doesn't matter what he said before.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

why even mention he had a gun?! it's sure to make any interaction with a cop 100x worse. Let them find it, if it comes to that.

Or hand him your permit along with your license and registration.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

It is, if he starts to reach towards his pocket. Which he did.

You can shoot someone with a gun pointed at the floor faster than they can react. You can't do the same with a gun that is in your pocket. We can argue this back and forth all day but I believe he should have waited to actually see a gun coming out of his pocket before shooting.

 

[lfd0311]

You don't know either.

It sounds like it could be "I'ma have to pull it out", but it's definitely not "I will not pull it out".

I never said I don't know what he said. You said that. I'm pretty adamant about what I heard.

 

[DoomPatrol]

You're forgetting an important element in that imaginary scenario. That element being a cop screaming at him to take his hand out of his pocket, with his gun drawn on him. In that scenario, buddy with the rifle is getting put down if does not comply within five seconds.

No, a cop telling him not to grab "it" after asking for his ID. Not to take his hand out of his pocket. Not to keep his hands in sight. Just for him to not grab it, aka the firearm.

 

[lfd0311]

If an officer starts shouting, "DON'T REACH FOR IT!!!!!!!" it is time to put your hands up. Doesn't matter what he said before.

The only time he adamantly said "don't reach for it" was less than a second before he started shooting. The other two times where in a calm and conversational tone that would indicate to literally everyone that nothing is amiss and what you are doing is just fine.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I never said I don't know what he said. You said that. I'm pretty adamant about what I heard.

Well a lot of people seem to be in agreement that it's hard to make out exactly what he said, but if you're 100% certain, then I guess that should be good enough for everyone.