Mass incarceration of African Americans affects the racial achievement gap — report

[8KresniK8]

I was waiting how long it took until one of you noticed the patterns of bias and ignorance in his posts. Guess that was the last straw.

 

[moneyfight]

The red scare and rabid anti socialist mindset is alive and well in the USA.

Socialism only worked in the the Scandinavian countries when Europeans lived homogeneously.

Look what happened with the crime epidemic once Sweden started letting Africans and Muslim in to live on their social welfare.

 

[Drenalin]

I was referring to "victim" in the broader sense. Broken home, drug addicted mother, gang member siblings...that sort of thing.

So you're referring to people like me. I'm not a criminal nor have I ever considered myself a victim

 

[panamaican]

It's late and I'm tired of being in the office but I'll fire off a quick analysis. This is much ado about nothing. I say this despite the extremely negative numbers. Numbers which I am not challenging as incorrect in any fashion.

My logic is very short and straightforward. The current plight of black America is largely the result of hundreds of years of economic and social ostracization. People lament the broken black home but the black home, in the U.S., has always been broken because of the nature of slavery. People lament the incarceration rate but incarcerating black Americans at higher rates has always been a systemic tool going back to Jim Crow and even the free North (who didn't have slavery they just incarcerated blacks more aggressively).

Once you look at the entire continuum of black American history, not just the last 40 years, you see that modern black America is the inevitable outcome of historical black treatment. Here's where some people are going to start wanting to type angry responses because I didn't blame black Americans enough.

Where this becomes much ado about nothing is because there's nothing to do about it in the short run, except gradual and permanent removal of historical roadblocks to success. With those artificial barriers to success gone, each subsequent generation will outperform the previous generation and new habits of success will become part of the fabric of success.

I laid out the modern statistics for how we know this is already happening in other threads, black America is on a positive trend line that most people are ignorant of and don't care to educate themselves about. Instead, they will go on and on about the current problems as if there is no movement in any direction.

For example between 1984 and 2004 median net worth for black America doubled. It took a hit with the recession but, assuming, housing prices rebound, the median should increase as well since most black net worth is tied into housing (not surprising that they lag other groups since housing restrictions were only recently lifted).

There are a host of metrics that one could pull to track the upward progress of black America, if one were so inclined.

 

[lecter]

Clinton would be considered centre/centre right in most advanced liberal democracies.

Yes because "advanced liberal democracies" is a codeword for "early stage of socialism".

The red scare and rabid anti socialist mindset is alive and well in the USA.

Which is a good thing because socialism is inherently evil.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

So you're referring to people like me. I'm not a criminal nor have I ever considered myself a victim

Do you feel you are more of a rare exception or the norm?

 

[FIMN]

Socialism only worked in the the Scandinavian countries when Europeans lived homogeneously.

Look what happened with the crime epidemic once Sweden started letting Africans and Muslim in to live on their social welfare.

What does this have to do with the media being left wing?

 

[ManCityFC9]

I don't think the media is particularly left wing. I'd say America generally is centre right on the whole, and trump with his pro market, anti immigrant and generally radical right wing policies and rhetoric have caused a lot of backlash, justifiably.

I'd say on the whole their cause is just, overall.

It will take sensible policies and concerted effort to undo the damage that the highest rate if incarceration, racial gerrymandering and disenfranchisement have caused.

It's telling that people are more outraged by BLM than the president advocating stop and frisk, police unions depriving people of their constitutional rights unless they get paid, and private prisons.

2 years ago I'd have agree with you on America being center-right(at least center);
but from what I see on social media, MSM, and the general dispositions of people in cities in the NorthEast, we are living in a very far left society(who are, in large portion, un- or mis- informed) which honestly does not go out to vote.

But back to the topic; I'd agree that all of those factored into the current state of the AA community. But I still put the onus on the AA community to fix itself with some slight help from gov't policies(more state and city based tax dollars).
-Private prisons are definitely bad news for everyone
-stop and frisk did work a bit but mostly for marijuana possession, not too many weapons were found
--that being said it wont have the same affect as it did back then(due to the trend of nationwide legalization/decriminalization of marijuana).

BLM was received negatively, but I blame that on the abrasive approach; I do hope for a more balanced communication with much more logical/peaceful messaging as opposed to emotional driven responses.

 

[FIMN]

I was waiting how long it took until one of you noticed the patterns of bias and ignorance in his posts. Guess that was the last straw.

I mean, you say bias, but nobody is really arguing coherently against my posts...

 

[Gutter Chris]

That cultural violence is driven by a drug dealer culture.

There are dumb people, who have no money, and shoot someone over some jordans, but no one wants to be like that guy.

People want to be like the guy 2 blocks over that everyone fears, who has money and women, because he controls a drug gang, and drug turf, that makes him king of his little fiefdom.

No. A lot of em think the guy 2 blocks over wants to be like them. Most of them have no gang affiliations at all. At one point you were correct that the violence stemmed from the gang culture but it has morphed into something much worse where a lot of the time its violence almost for the sake of violence cuz thats what they learned from the cradle . Look into how much violence in Chicago revolves around social media. This isnt about wanting to be a drug dealer this is about wanting to be the hardest dude on the block and no perceived disrespect is to be tolerated.

Again I dont disagree that ending the war on drugs will help but Im not going to pretend that a buncha dudes that have been gs their whole life are not going to be gs anymore because you can buy dope at cvs all of a sudden.

 

[Bay Area]

Lay off the black threads for a while TS.

 

[ManCityFC9]

That cultural violence is driven by a drug dealer culture.

There are dumb people, who have no money, and shoot someone over some jordans, but no one wants to be like that guy.

People want to be like the guy 2 blocks over that everyone fears, who has money and women, because he controls a drug gang, and drug turf, that makes him king of his little fiefdom.

I'd definitely agree on addressing drug dealers and that level of "organized" crime.
--Increased detective work should be handling such cases, as long as bribes can be curbed and actual police work can be done.
---I hope this works out for the better with increased border patrol to come; i wonder if customs agents are expected to gain in numbers under this new administration.

 

[VivaRevolution]

No. A lot of em think the guy 2 blocks over wants to be like them. Most of them have no gang affiliations at all. At one point you were correct that the violence stemmed from the gang culture but it has morphed into something much worse where a lot of the time its violence almost for the sake of violence cuz thats what they learned from the cradle . Look into how much violence in Chicago revolves around social media. This isnt about wanting to be a drug dealer this is about wanting to be the hardest dude on the block and no perceived disrespect is to be tolerated.

Again I dont disagree that ending the war on drugs will help but Im not going to pretend that a buncha dudes that have been gs their whole life are not going to be gs anymore because you can buy dope at cvs all of a sudden.

The GD's and P stones run south chicago. They are drug gangs.

I've never been to chicago, but I have a friend that grew up in a GD neighborhood in south chicago. According to him, Chicago gang violence is always drug related. You will have two crews go to war over drug turf, and it will spread into larger warfare. He described it as a battle for one street corner sometimes turning Chicago into a blood bath for a week or two.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'd definitely agree on addressing drug dealers and that level of "organized" crime.
--Increased detective work should be handling such cases, as long as bribes can be curbed and actual police work can be done.
---I hope this works out for the better with increased border patrol to come; i wonder if customs agents are expected to gain in numbers under this new administration.

This is why legalization is the only answer.

Arrest all the neighborhood kingpins you want, and new ones rise up. Prohibition isn't a solution, it is a industry built on organized crime.

 

[moneyfight]

At one point you were correct that the violence stemmed from the gang culture but it has morphed into something much worse where a lot of the time its violence almost for the sake of violence cuz thats what they learned from the cradle . Look into how much violence in Chicago revolves around social media. This isnt about wanting to be a drug dealer this is about wanting to be the hardest dude on the block and no perceived disrespect is to be tolerated.

They literally make rap music about killing each other like it's a sport which makes it 100% a cultural thing.

 

[FIMN]

2 years ago I'd have agree with you on America being center-right(at least center);
but from what I see on social media, MSM, and the general dispositions of people in cities in the NorthEast, we are living in a very far left society(who are, in large portion, un- or mis- informed) which honestly does not go out to vote.

But back to the topic; I'd agree that all of those factored into the current state of the AA community. But I still put the onus on the AA community to fix itself with some slight help from gov't policies(more state and city based tax dollars).
-Private prisons are definitely bad news for everyone
-stop and frisk did work a bit but mostly for marijuana possession, not too many weapons were found
--that being said it wont have the same affect as it did back then(due to the trend of nationwide legalization/decriminalization of marijuana).

BLM was received negatively, but I blame that on the abrasive approach; I do hope for a more balanced communication with much more logical/peaceful messaging as opposed to emotional driven responses.

Not sure how you're getting far left. There is no socialist movement in the US, Bernie is about as left wing as it gets and he is centre left at most. Mainstream dems are centre/centre right (generally pro market, advocate a safety net rather than comprehensive welfare state like European countries, etc).

The UK would be considered extreme left by your standards, but it is one of the most (economically) right wing places in Europe.

You say stop and frisk worked, but it was unconstitutional and was blatantly used to illegally search minorities without a genuine reason. How the fuck can you consider that working?

You need to decouple BLM as a monolithic group and the media representation of it. Understand the nuance and how your own consumption of media plays into your own biases and that perhaps the Media you consume gives a picture that drives clicks and ratings rather than actual truth.

And I generally dislike BLM but lets not pretend conservatives/right wing media have ANY interest in even pretending to be balanced about it.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

People lament the broken black home but the black home, in the U.S., has always been broken because of the nature of slavery.

Uh, you sure about that?...

2:53-...

 

[FIMN]

Yes because "advanced liberal democracies" is a codeword for "early stage of socialism".


Which is a good thing because socialism is inherently evil.

No, it just means advanced liberal democracy. You are projecting your own biases. As evidenced by your second sentence.

 

[moneyfight]

There is no socialist movement in the US.

Because socialist movements only work in all white societies like the Scandinavian countries when Europeans lived homogeneously.

The media in America is still far left tho...

 

[ManCityFC9]

It's late and I'm tired of being in the office but I'll fire off a quick analysis. This is much ado about nothing. I say this despite the extremely negative numbers. Numbers which I am not challenging as incorrect in any fashion.

My logic is very short and straightforward. The current plight of black America is largely the result of hundreds of years of economic and social ostracization. People lament the broken black home but the black home, in the U.S., has always been broken because of the nature of slavery. People lament the incarceration rate but incarcerating black Americans at higher rates has always been a systemic tool going back to Jim Crow and even the free North (who didn't have slavery they just incarcerated blacks more aggressively).

Once you look at the entire continuum of black American history, not just the last 40 years, you see that modern black America is the inevitable outcome of historical black treatment. Here's where some people are going to start wanting to type angry responses because I didn't blame black Americans enough.

Where this becomes much ado about nothing is because there's nothing to do about it in the short run, except gradual and permanent removal of historical roadblocks to success. With those artificial barriers to success gone, each subsequent generation will outperform the previous generation and new habits of success will become part of the fabric of success.

I laid out the modern statistics for how we know this is already happening in other threads, black America is on a positive trend line that most people are ignorant of and don't care to educate themselves about. Instead, they will go on and on about the current problems as if there is no movement in any direction.

For example between 1984 and 2004 median net worth for black America doubled. It took a hit with the recession but, assuming, housing prices rebound, the median should increase as well since most black net worth is tied into housing (not surprising that they lag other groups since housing restrictions were only recently lifted).

There are a host of metrics that one could pull to track the upward progress of black America, if one were so inclined.

I'd agree with what you've said; blacks have seen an income increase, larger college enrollment,(online schools should proliferate this for years to come), and their individual wealth may be trending in the right direction
-likely the slower pace for minorities is due to locations (inner cities are typically more expensive in terms of home ownership.)

One statistic that is worrisome is Single Motherhood stats
- and I blame some of this on what I call neo-feminism culture(single motherhood is up for all races) and the current welfare benefits, though less than the former.

This does need to be addressed, though nearly impossible to directly i.e. through policies, but moreso within the community.
-maybe the current socio-economic trend will help solve this but single-motherhood has been trending in the wrong direction