Kentucky Derby...and Beyond?

Finally got a chance to watch Hence's workout from yesterday;



Very nice. He worked with Local Hero again, who is the naturally faster horse of the two, and Hence ran with him step for step all the way around. They went 5F in a 1:00 flat and Hence did it with very little urging. I'm assuming the rider gave him a couple of gentle taps with the stick at around the 0:35 mark to pull up even with Local Hero and Hence responded immediately. Beyond that little bit Hence was doing everything himself. Nice gallop out past the wire too with no urging and then he started to pull up on cue right when the rider asked him to near the end of the video. Also, unless my eyes are deceiving me, Hence appears to have put on some muscle since his last race. I thought he looked on the leaner side earlier in the year, but in that workout yesterday he just looks plain big all the way around. For the record, Hence also got his jockey for the Derby yesterday as well. Florent Geroux will be riding him to the winner's circle.
 
hence is 25/1 over here? Should i pull the trigger?

I would if I could, G. He's probably going to go off in the 15/1 range (20/1 at the highest) once he enters the gates come Derby day, so you're getting quite a bit of value with that line I think.
 
Not sure what I'm going to do now if Girvin isn't an option since I basically got down to five horses a few days ago after crossing State of Honor off my list. That leaves me with four now; Hence, Lookin At Lee, Practical Joke and Classic Empire, with me not being all that crazy about playing the latter. I wanted to use five, so I can either put State of Honor back in or hope that Sonneteer draws into the field. Or just play those four.

so are these 4 your bet? you say your not crazy about the latter but unclear of which horses your talking about are you saying you dont like practical joke and classic empire? also I see Girvin on my sportsbook, do you mean he isnt an option on yours or not an option as in like the horse is injured or something
 
I would if I could, G. He's probably going to go off in the 15/1 range (20/1 at the highest) once he enters the gates come Derby day, so you're getting quite a bit of value with that line I think.
I just put 5 on Hence to win at +2058 based exclusively on your tip.
 
so are these 4 your bet? you say your not crazy about the latter but unclear of which horses your talking about are you saying you dont like practical joke and classic empire? also I see Girvin on my sportsbook, do you mean he isnt an option on yours or not an option as in like the horse is injured or something

Well, I won't be making any bets until the day of the race, K, since I always bet into the parimutual pool rather than use an online sportsbook. But yeah, those four are who I'm likely to use when I do make my bets. Classic Empire is the one I was speaking about there only because he's an untrustworthy type him being a headcase and all, with him having gate issues in the past, him throwing his rider at the beginning of one race, him getting all nervous and thus washed out in his race two back. If talking just pure talent alone, Classic Empire might be the horse to beat. His best probably beats everyone else's best. But he's a hard guy to trust and to do so as the likely favourite. I'm likely to use him in exactas and trifectas, but that's more for defensive reasonings than anything I guess. Along with Hence, it'll give me another horse to play in the exotics who I think could be a strong win candidate. I'd prefer to use Classic Empire over some other "win contenders" like Always Dreaming, Gunnevera, Irish War Cary, McCraken, etc. Basically what it comes down to.

Yeah, Girvin is only discounted as an option for me because there may be something going on with the horse. He was supposed to have a workout last Saturday at Churchill Downs where he was on the grounds already. His trainer then bumped it to Monday and then moved the horse to another track over at Keeneland. Then he missed the workout on Monday with his trainer bumping it to Friday. Moving the horse off the grounds and then missing scheduled workouts, that's a pretty big red flag for me. Whether the horse is a little sore, a little sick, or what have you, something has to be up with him in order for him to have to miss his workouts like that.
 
Hence: 80.5, 83.5, 100 (93) * 9 3/4, 7, 3 (P, T, T) * 1st last race * 24.3 feet * 4/5

- A combined BSF/BRIS figure in their final 9F prep of 95 or greater
- A maintain or improve pattern to their combined BSF/BRIS figure over the last 3 races going into the Derby (less than 4 pt drop in either of their last two races)
- Best combined BSF/BRIS came in their last prep at 9F
- Brisnet late pace figure of at least 95 in their final prep at 9F
- Running a new top (T) thorograph figure in their final prep but not drastically so
- Having one of the four positive thorograph patterns over their last two prep races (P, T), (P, P), (T, T) or (T, P)
- Finished 1st or 2nd in their final prep with 1st being preferred
- Showed a stride length of at least 23.5 feet at the end of their final prep race at 9F
- Have at least a 6 count when combining races that are over a mile in length and that featured 10+ field sizes, or at least 3 races at over a mile with 2 races with 10+ field sizes

Hence checks in having a combined BSF/BRIS figure of 95 or greater, which has produced 16 of the past 17 Derby winners, and 45 of the 51 top 3 finishers in that span.

Hence checks in having a maintain or improve pattern to his combined BSF/BRIS figures over his last 3 races, which was seen on 15 of the last 17 Derby winners going into the race, and 42 of the 51 top 3 finishers in that span.

Hence checks in having his best combined BSF/BRIS figure coming in his last prep at 9F, which has produced 12 of the last 17 Derby winners, and 37 of the 51 top 3 finishers in that span.

With a 93 BRIS late pace figure in his last race, Hence just missed the 95 late pace cutoff, which has produced 16 of the last 17 Derby winners, and 40 of the 51 top 3 finishers in that span.

Hence checks in having ran a new top on thorograph in his last race, but not drastically so, which is what 19 of the last 35 Derby winners went into the race off of.

Hence checks in having a positive thorograph pattern over hos last two races, which has produced 29 of the last 35 Derby winners, 16 of the last 20 Derby winners, and 44 of the 60 top 3 finishers in that 20 year span.

Hence checks in having finished 1st or 2nd in his last prep race, which is what 33 of the last 40 Derby winners have done so in their final prep race.

Hence checks in having an estimated stride length of 24.3 feet at the end of his final prep, which is above the 23.5 foot cutoff that 18 of the last 20 Derby winners have shown in their final prep. Hence also only had about a 1.5 foot falloff to his late stride length compared to what it was earlier and that was after being forced to run some pretty fast fractions early, and after he started his late run about 5F from the line. That was a long sustained run he showed na dhe did a tremenous job of maintaining his length all the way to the wire.

Hence checks in having 4 races over a mile and 5 races where he saw field sizes of 10+, which is well above the cutoff which has produced 13 of the last 17 Derby winners and 40 of the 51 top 3 finishers in that span.

With him having checked in 8 categories (just missing the 9th) Hence is one of only a handful of horses this year that will have checked in at least 5 categories, which is what every Derby winner over the past 17 years have done. He's also the only one to have checked in 8 or 9 categories, which is what 9 of the past 17 Derby winners have done going into the race.

In addition;

With his Brisnet E1 pace figure of 106, his E2 pace figure of 108, his late pace figure of 93, and his final figure of 103, Hence is the only horse in this year's field who has ran above the Derby pars for each of those in his final prep. Over the last decade there's been 15 horses who went into the Derby after having done so in their final prep, and that produced 4 winners, 3 second place finishers, and 2 third place finishers in the Derby.

Hence's E1 in his last race was 19 points higher than he had ever did before and his E2 was 17 points higher than ever before, and he did that after coming from off the pace. Thus he fits that "lung opener" angle I like so much with these types, which sets up a horse very well for their next race. Hence has also been thriving at Churchill Downs the last couple of weeks while matching a naturally faster horse than him in his workouts, in addition to showing a lot of energy in his gallops around the track as well. To my eye, Hence also looks like he bulked up some compared to the last time he raced as well.

Along with Classic Empire, Hence is only one of the two horses who fit the fast final fractions/Buckpasser X/Raise A Native sire line angle that Stan Caris came up with some years ago. An angle that, in the last 40 years, has only seen 30 horses that fit the bill with 15 of them finishing either 1st or 2nd in the Derby (8 won).

Am I forgetting something? Not sure. But this guy is coming into the race in great form as compared with past Derby winners and the profiles we've come up with. He's one of the few that should have no issues with the 10F Derby distance considering his pedigree, his stride length and length maintenance, the visual impression after his last race, and the way he's looked the last couple of weeks out on the track giving the suggestion he's in peak condition. He's also an adaptable sort, who's not pace dependant unlike a lot of this year's horses in the field. He's won while sitting up close to the pace (and overcoming a shitload of adversity while doing so...stumbled start and spooked badly in the lane) and he's won coming from near the back while showing he had a huge sustained run. Like every other horse in the race, he's going to need a little luck on his side just due to the sheer size of the field. Or more accurately, avoid the bad luck scenarios. But what's not to like with this one? He fits in so many ways, and while he's not exactly going to be a secret to some come Derby time due to the attention he got last week, he should still be a very good price when he enters the gates.
 
i.e. I'm not telling anybody who I'm betting in the Derby.
 





16:40 to 17:55 mark of the following video;




What do you think @BluntTrauma21 ? Should we be lining up to bet this guy at 6/1 or what?
 
"But video of the horse taken earlier this week at Keeneland and posted on the Instagram site of @takechargelady, the account of Anne Eberhardt Keogh of the Blood-Horse, clearly shows Girvin with Z-bar shoes on both front hooves. Z-bar shoes are used on horses for any number of hoof issues, ranging from a problem with the sole, the frog, to an abscess, to a quarter crack."

http://www.drf.com/news/girvin-wearing-z-bar-shoes-final-derby-work-delayed-saturday

Girvin is an obvious toss now if he's having hoof issues. That's if he even makes the Derby gates. Hopefully the health of the horse is put first over the ego of the connections desire to simply want a Derby runner.
 





16:40 to 17:55 mark of the following video;




What do you think @BluntTrauma21 ? Should we be lining up to bet this guy at 6/1 or what?


Haha no thanks. That was really bad, he looked terrible out there. Literally thought he was trying to buck the rider at times. Perfect example of what we were talking about. Thanks for that.
 
Haha no thanks. That was really bad, he looked terrible out there. Literally thought he was trying to buck the rider at times. Perfect example of what we were talking about. Thanks for that.

Yeah, that was an utter mess from him. The good thing for him is that he still has over a week to settle things down, though, and he's really, really going to need to to have any sort of chance of running well in the Derby.
 
A lot of people were buzzing about Always Dreaming's workout this morning on twitter, and after watching it myself I'm not sure why. He's still a horse who's being way too aggressive out there on the track. The timed portion of the workout started at the 0:50 portion of the following video, and the horse was pulling hard for the first 2F of the 5F workout before the rider finally just gave up and let him go. It was fast, yes, but of course it was going to be fast with the way Always Dreaming looked the previous two mornings. He wasn't relaxing neither of those days when just galloping and he wasn't relaxed this morning either.



Give me a nice and relaxed 1:00 flat from Hence over a 59.60 when a horse is over aggressive and on the muscle any day of the week. The only good thing I saw in Always Dreaming's workout is that maybe that's the type of thing to get that aggressiveness out of his system. He's got to be able to relax in the Derby.
 
Like is the case with Lookin At Lee, Sonneteer is going to have a good line as well, and should look something like this;

82.5, 91, 92.5 (109) * ?, ?, ? (?, ?, ?) * 4th last race * 24.4 feet * 5/2

Without yet knowing what his thorograph numbers and pattern is, which should be quite positive, he's another one that will check in at least 5 categories and, like Lee, could check in 7 once I see his thorograph sheet. I'll be using him as an underneath type I do think in a 2x5x5 that will look like this;

Hence, Classic Empire / Hence, Classic Empire, Lookin At Lee, Practical Joke, Sonneteer / same 5 again
 
Hit a trifecta at Emerald Downs last night!! Not the biggest score in the history of horse betting but for a guy just learning what's what with the ponies it sure felt like a win!
 
Hit a trifecta at Emerald Downs last night!! Not the biggest score in the history of horse betting but for a guy just learning what's what with the ponies it sure felt like a win!

That's awesome, Mac. Great job.
 
I thought maybe that workout a couple of days ago from Always Dreaming would have given him a chance to blow off some steam, but nope, it doesn't appear so;

 
On the opposite end to Always Dreaming we have McCraken who's about the only one of the shorter priced horses I won't be using who scares me some;

 
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