Jacare should have won that fight vs Gastellum.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Ananth, May 16, 2018.

  1. blaseblah

    blaseblah Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    11,375
    Likes Received:
    11,368
    Its become the standard. No one gives even rounds so every judge is afraid to give even rounds and be different. Whoever is running shit needs to get these knuckleheads in the same room and announce over the loud speaker: IT IS OK TO SCORE ROUNDS AS A DRAW.

    Same with the reffing. This needs to be a public announcement for all refs: IT IS OK TO TAKE AWAY POINTS FOR EYE POKING AND GROIN KICKS.
     
    Mike likes this.
  2. TStoner

    TStoner Oatmeal cream stout

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,624
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    It’s very close. Can’t argue much either way, but I agreed with the decision. Kelvin lost the first round. No doubt. But he dropped Jacare in the second so he definitely won that round in my mind. The third, while very close, had equal exchanges in the striking with Kelvin taking the scrambles and grappling - which should be Jacares strength - which gave him the third in my mind. I ain’t mad, and nobody should be, but I can see why others disagree
     
  3. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    14,647
    Likes Received:
    9,102
    Location:
    New York, NY
    That may be what you interpreted, but it certainly was not my point. What I was underlining is that Jacare is more skilled than Kelvin - consider how they both fought when equally fresh, but that Jacare is well past his athletic prime and can no longer keep up or take big hits. Kelvin, for his part, is still athletically in great shape and clearly more durable.


    Brock Lesnar and Cole Konrad both were NCAA division I champions, and both famously attempted to enter the NFL, with the Vikings and Jets respectively, before falling back to MMA as a backup consideration. They both became MMA champions.

    The risk -vs- reward is so bad in MMA that we are failing to attract suitable young athletes with the requisite background for success. Elite athletes the size of 185/205/265 do not consider MMA as their first (or sometimes second, third) option.

    That is why we are shuffling around the old farts of yesteryear in those divisions.

    The starting pay at the absolute highest level of the sports is 12k to get your head punched in. Good luck convincing a young man over 6' and 200+ lbs with elite speed and athletic qualities to take a single glance at MMA.
     
    Mike likes this.
  4. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    14,647
    Likes Received:
    9,102
    Location:
    New York, NY

    Making a million dollars in 3 years of the NFL would be top 1% of all UFC athletes in the history of the organization.

    MMA has elite athletes in the lower weight classes, where we see average age make sense for an athletic endeavor. 38-45 year old guys populating the upper divisions are not, by ANY reasonable standard 'elite athletes' at that point in their lives.

    The starting pay is 12k to get your head punched in. As a thought experiment, lets say it was now 250k/year, if you were 205/265. Do you think this would have a wild influx of young athletes?

    It would literally change the sport over night. When one guy with legitimately elite genetics trips and falls into MMA, we call him the greatest of all time. The NFL is literally populates with Jon Jones, he's not the exception he's the rule there.
     
    kuka45 and Mike like this.
  5. daltonames

    daltonames Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    3,821
    I understand your point, but it wasn't an unsatisfying conclusion for me personally, I thought Kelvin did more damage and was advancing and walking down Jacare the whole time from round 2 on, just eating Jacare's shots like they were nothing. I wouldn't have put up a fuss if Jacare got the decision. i personally don't need to see a rematch anytime soon. but that's just me.
     
  6. Lint2

    Lint2 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,482
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Kelvin was moving towards Jacare the whole time.
    That doesn't mean he was delivering, that's a complete different thing.

    Walking towards a guy that is beating your chin at will just because you can endure it doesn't earn you any points, right? It was impressive that Kelvin kept moving towards after being tagged by right hands time and again, but that doesn't mean he should win. Offense/striking matters, your resilience is just good for you.
     
    Mike likes this.
  7. kflo

    kflo Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    20,812
    Likes Received:
    4,305
    Your perspective is all fucked up. You can make 12k in the minors (prelims is minors) after only a few years practicing a sport. Name another sport with similar opportunities. Not sure why your benchmark is the nfl. Often the primary differentiator is size and the reason they don’t go to mma if they are talented but not 350 lbs is because it’s hard work, not because the pay after only a few years training isnt that high.
     
  8. kflo

    kflo Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    20,812
    Likes Received:
    4,305
    And you didn’t explain how they used to get talent but now they can’t.
     
  9. 2004 account

    2004 account god belt

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    995
    Anyone perpetrating that “don’t leave it to the judges” line really doesn’t want a fair sport and that’s pretty sad.
     
    executionermma and Mike like this.
  10. theantso

    theantso Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    854
    Kelvin won round 2 and 3. Jacare won round 1. He nearly finished him, but he didn´t. I´m not much for giving points for someone nearly doing something, thats not the same. He didn´t get the job done. Jacare was not good enough and he couldnt finnish him. Getting points for nearly finishing someone sounds really odd doesn´t it? Like giving points for nearly scoring a goal in football. ¨

    Ever since the Anderson Silva, Bisping and the Hendo and Bisping fight, its clear as water that damage doesn´t mean much, despite the claims that they now take it into account. You can be an opened can of tomatoes and still nothing. Bisping poked hendo the entire fight and people said he "dominated" him, which was insane to say of course. But thats how it goes. Based off this kelvin got a few more strikes in, and there´s that. Jacare was also badly fatiguing and if it had been a 5 rounder, he might not had been able to get up from his chair.

    Jacare was sliding around already in round 2, could barely stand most of the time. Kelvi should had pushed the pace more as he was way fresher, but props to Jacare for finding a bit of a second wind.
     
  11. Mike

    Mike Apathetic Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    21,629
    Likes Received:
    24,098
    Location:
    A sea of human garbage
    Jacare should have taken the 3rd. He was teeing off on Kelvin but his Homer Simpson chin saw him through. Much like how Diego used to win fights. Swing at air while running forward and eating haymakers from your confused opponent.


    upload_2018-5-17_3-38-59.jpeg
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Apathetic Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    21,629
    Likes Received:
    24,098
    Location:
    A sea of human garbage
    Seriously. As fans we shouldn't accept permanently bad judging. It's ridiculous..
     
    2004 account and VVarhead like this.
  13. Mike

    Mike Apathetic Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    21,629
    Likes Received:
    24,098
    Location:
    A sea of human garbage
    Right you make a million as a benchwarmer there. Now compare that to mma where you have to be elite to touch a mil, or a middle of the pack guy that hangs around WAY too long.
     
  14. VVarhead

    VVarhead Bullet Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    9,059
    Likes Received:
    20,325
    Location:
    Austria
    That's actually a problem with the judges, not the system itself.
    A 10-10 round is a perfectly valid score, but judges refuse to give 10-10s, somehow.
     
  15. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    14,647
    Likes Received:
    9,102
    Location:
    New York, NY

    Calling fighting for the UFC 'the minros' is intellectually dishonest. There is not a sports organization in the world that can sell for $4,000,000,000 that is considered a minor league. This is literally, too stupid to discuss further.

    Minor league MMA exists in the form of local, regional and lesser national orgs.

    Regarding 185/205/265: the lack of signed fighters, high average age and demonstrably low skill and athleticism is a sourcing problem. There are plenty of other suitably sized high caliber athletes in other sports, including the minors of each, but we can't find them in MMA.

    As a thought experiment, ask yourself a question, and answer honestly - if the starting pay for a heavyweight signed to the UFC went from 12k to get your head punched in, to 500k guaranteed, would more men signup to try?

    Would a larger talent pool interested in heavyweight MMA produce a deeper division? Of course.
     
    kuka45 likes this.
  16. daltonames

    daltonames Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    3,821
    Kelvin was walking forward, absorbing Jacare's shots and landing shots of his own, and his shots were definitely doing more damage to Jacare than Jacare's shots were doing to him. In my estimation, that wins him the fight.
    I'm not sure your point here. he was moving forward, and he was delivering. Jacare got knocked down, wobbled and was more of a mess at the end of that fight than i've ever seen him in the UFC.
     
  17. george14

    george14 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    Well that is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard and blatantly false. Aaron Hernandez played 3 years in the NFL and they said he has the worst case of CTE in the history of planet Earth. The had never seen a case this bad. So what you are saying is ridiculous. There are plenty of guys who have retired because they've had so many concussions. There was a Linebacker for the 49ers who just retired too after playing 1 season because he had 10+ concussions.

    I'm looking at Mickey Gall's earnings for 2016, he is a young guy. By my estimation he earned $90K strictly for fighting and that's only 3 fights. That doesn't include Reebok money to my knowledge, nor does it include sponsorships these guys have. I'm assuming after all the BS he is probably earning $150K a year and the guy has been in the UFC for hardly a year.

    It has been proven time and time again that football is more dangerous than MMA. Like I said, the guys in MMA have a longer career. I'm not saying which is smarter, I'm saying the NFL does not always have the best athletes. That is a perpetuated myth.
     
  18. george14

    george14 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    You and I can just agree to disagree. Athleticism is a word that has different meaning to different people. You saying "the NFL is filled with Jon Jones" is your opinion and likely hyperbole. Jones admitted he wasn't good at football. Now does that mean he wasn't athletic enough? No. I guess Michael Westbrook and Johnnie Morton weren't athletic enough for MMA. Athleticism is not some universal term where no matter what, a guy can excel.

    Do you think LeBron James would be a good hockey player? As someone who played for a long time I can tell you no. His size makes it impossible to have lateral quickness on the ice and he has a very high center of gravity so he would be getting cut down constantly. There are very few guys in the NHL 6'8". It's just an example of how not everyone who is a good athlete can translate to another sport.

    The fact that dad bod Josh Barnett could pin any NFL player down, put his nuts in their face, and there is not a single thing they could do to stop him could be my definition of athleticism. He is literally imposing his strength, skill, stamina, speed on them all. But just because it's not yours doesn't mean the NFL is the Holy Grail of athletes. It's a subjective term.
     
  19. Sunken

    Sunken Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    1,170
    Location:
    ANYWHERE ON THE DOME !!!
    Coin Flip
     
  20. Street Fighter 2

    Street Fighter 2 Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    958
    Jacare gassed after 1 round because he ain't bout that life. Let that sink in
     

Share This Page