If you think Khabib won´t be champ because of his striking, you probably don´t remember this guy.

[MMAViewer]

Multiples eras???? Damn!!! It´s been 10 years now, man. If you consider a 10 year gap "multiple eras", good for you. I don´t.

When a sport is in its first stages then yes ten years is huge.
I would agree that striking has evolved at a fast pace in 10-15 years.

 

[Magx951]

look at the fucking striking from the hughes era and look at it now.

GSP himself was like the first major MMA fighter to actually utilize a fucking JAB

 

[Kevster]

Why do people act like going 24-0 is some easy accomplishment in MMA because of weaker opposition, remind me who guys like McGregor, Aldo or Rockhold lost against before the UFC.

Point being it's still impressive regardless of how much people try to downplay it.

 

[Aluminati]

And for the record, some of Hughes first losses came to guys who could outstrike him.

... and one against Penn later on in his career for that very same reason.

 

[JKS]

I'm not saying there's no validity to this, but RDA was straight up piecing Khabib up in rd 3 standing before RDA inexplicably decided to try a takedown. Khabib reversed it and put RDA on his back. This kind of contradicts what you're saying (although again, I do think you have a point--the threat of the TD makes Khbabi's rudimentary striking more effective).

Actually it doesnt contradicting anything I say because your claim of RDA "piecing" Khabib up in round 3 is completely not true.......I suggest you watch the fight again, I just watched it over the weekend and RDA barely landed anything. RDA threw a few body kicks of which two landed clean and rest blocked and I think he landed a punch in close range and that was pretty much it. It only appeared that way maybe cause RDA was down two rounds and decided to throw more strikes and move forward more. Khabib landed less that round standing but he was still more active in the stand up than RDA before the fight hit the ground.

 

[jeff7b9]

I'm not saying Khabib isn't good, because he is. But the 24-0 thing...let's have some context here

And he probably shouldn't have gotten the decision vs Tibau either.

Assuming that image is legit then Khabib is basically 8-0 with 16 amateur bouts (in which he went 16-0)

24-0 is deceptive if 11 of his opponents had 2 or less wins & 5 had never won before.

It is still very impressive, way better than dropping one..... But you couldn't amass a record like that in the U.S. Or Brazil, you would be fighting top tier guys by the time you hit 10-0.

 

[JKS]

Why do people act like going 24-0 is some easy accomplishment in MMA because of weaker opposition, remind me who guys like McGregor, Aldo or Rockhold lost against before the UFC.

Point being it's still impressive regardless of how much people try to downplay it.

People who downplay his 24-0 record are either haters or morons plain and simple. See the thing about mma fans when they criticize a fighter like Khabib and claim most of those guys he beat are weak competition dont mention (or comprehend) that Khabib was not the same fighter he is now. They have this perception that Khabib at 0-0, 7-0, 15-0 and 24-0 is the same level fighter as now which is obviously cant be. Khabib was a developing fighter before he came to the UFC and not close to the level he's at now......so in his first 15 fights the fact he went unbeaten is still very impressive.

 

[mkess101]

Actually it doesnt contradicting anything I say because your claim of RDA "piecing" Khabib up in round 3 is completely not true.......I suggest you watch the fight again, I just watched it over the weekend and RDA barely landed anything. RDA threw a few body kicks of which two landed clean and rest blocked and I think he landed a punch in close range and that was pretty much it. It only appeared that way maybe cause RDA was down two rounds and decided to throw more strikes and move forward more. Khabib landed less that round standing but he was still more active in the stand up than RDA before the fight hit the ground.

I've watched it twice recently. RDA'S best success was in rd 3 prior to his trying that takedown. "Pieced up" was maybe some hyperbole but my point was that it was later in the fight where RDA landed his most solid strikes.

 

[mkess101]

People who downplay his 24-0 record are either haters or morons plain and simple. See the thing about mma fans when they criticize a fighter like Khabib and claim most of those guys he beat are weak competition dont mention (or comprehend) that Khabib was not the same fighter he is now. They have this perception that Khabib at 0-0, 7-0, 15-0 and 24-0 is the same level fighter as now which is obviously cant be. Khabib was a developing fighter before he came to the UFC and not close to the level he's at now......so in his first 15 fights the fact he went unbeaten is still very impressive.

Look at his last 3 opponents records before he entered the UFC. I agree with you when he was 4-0, 7-0, etc. But 14-0 and fighting the guys he was? Dude you aren't being objective here, sorry.

 

[JKS]

I've watched it twice recently. RDA'S best success was in rd 3 prior to his trying that takedown. "Pieced up" was maybe some hyperbole but my point was that it was later in the fight where RDA landed his most solid strikes.

He landed pretty much the same strikes (RDA) as he did in prior rounds......in other words he had almost no success standing vs Khabib regardless of which round. Landing three strikes isnt exactly having success.

 

[HHJ]

Well,to be fair,LW is a much more stacked division than WW was in Hughes day,but yes, A specialist (with a chin) can survive!

 

[mkess101]

He landed pretty much the same strikes (RDA) as he did in prior rounds......in other words he had almost no success standing vs Khabib regardless of which round. Landing three strikes isnt exactly having success.

They were cleaner and actually had Khabib backing up. It's moot for the most part, Khabib wom.

 

[JKS]

Look at his last 3 opponents records before he entered the UFC. I agree with you when he was 4-0, 7-0, etc. But 14-0 and fighting the guys he was? Dude you aren't being objective here, sorry.

Well....if you are looking at his record you should notice that Khabib at 7-0 and 14-0 is pretty much the same guy lol. The time difference between his 8th fight and his 14th fight was 13 months so just a bit over a year. He was fighting every 2-3 months......how do you expect people expect his competition to be stronger in such a short time frame. In addition he's fighting in very different organizations with different systems than the UFC.....5 of his wins before the UFC came on two separate nights in tournaments. Most of his fights were tournament fights so of course he's gonna fight easier fighters when you have a bracket GP style format. Its not like the UFC where fighters come in and move up the ranks and the competition gets tougher with each fight and fighters move to being contenders and title fights.

The point I was making that Khabib in his first 15 fights regardless 0-0, 7-0 or 14-0 is not the same guy that he is at the moment or 3 years ago when he fought RDA. Training at AKA he improved vastly and people should criticize his competition considering this and the fact that he fought in a different mma system. He started to fight better competition at the right point in his career when he was ready.

So its not me that needs to be more objective.....maybe you should understand his mma background better.

 

[servel20]

24-0



In THIS era

Damn, pwnd in one post

 

[mkess101]

Well....if you are looking at his record you should notice that Khabib at 7-0 and 14-0 is pretty much the same guy lol. The time difference between his 8th fight and his 14th fight was 13 months so just a bit over a year. He was fighting every 2-3 months......how do you expect people expect his competition to be stronger in such a short time frame. In addition he's fighting in very different organizations with different systems than the UFC.....5 of his wins before the UFC came on two separate nights in tournaments. Most of his fights were tournament fights so of course he's gonna fight easier fighters when you have a bracket GP style format. Its not like the UFC where fighters come in and move up the ranks and the competition gets tougher with each fight and fighters move to being contenders and title fights.

The point I was making that Khabib in his first 15 fights regardless 0-0, 7-0 or 14-0 is not the same guy that he is at the moment or 3 years ago when he fought RDA. Training at AKA he improved vastly and people should criticize his competition considering this and the fact that he fought in a different mma system. He started to fight better competition at the right point in his career when he was ready.

So its not me that needs to be more objective.....maybe you should understand his mma background better.

Yes it is you not being objective. He was 14-0 fighting a guy making his MMA debut. There is no way to spin that.

 

[JKS]

Yes it is you not being objective. He was 14-0 fighting a guy making his MMA debut. There is no way to spin that.

See thats your problem, you're thinking in a different format of promoting fights. You cant think how the UFC does things and then compare it to how they do it in M1 or ProFC in Europe. They are very different.....its not about spinning anything, its just a different mma organization with a different system. Khabib wasnt moving up ranks to challenge for titles, he was taking fights in tournaments, developing as a figheter and to stay active. His opponents didnt sign to fight him months in advance but the fights were set up with weeks notice. So him being 14-0 and fighting a guy making his mma debut is not out of the ordinary. In addition, in Russia fighters like that arent amateurs, many have experience in different combat sports and amateur fights that dont go on pro record. Being 14-0 isnt anything out of the ordinary in Europe, a record like that is developed in a couple years. Same goes for Brazil who have a similar system.

If you dont have an understanding of how mma promotions work in Europe than you shouldnt have an opinion on this topic. Educate yourself on how it works and then you can say....."ok, i get it now, makes sense" Think about it more of how fighters develop in boxing

 

[mkess101]

See thats your problem, you're thinking in a different format of promoting fights. You cant think how the UFC does things and then compare it to how they do it in M1 or ProFC in Europe. They are very different.....its not about spinning anything, its just a different mma organization with a different system. Khabib wasnt moving up ranks to challenge for titles, he was taking fights in tournaments, developing as a figheter and to stay active. His opponents didnt sign to fight him months in advance but the fights were set up with weeks notice. So him being 14-0 and fighting a guy making his mma debut is not out of the ordinary. In addition, in Russia fighters like that arent amateurs, many have experience in different combat sports and amateur fights that dont go on pro record. Being 14-0 isnt anything out of the ordinary in Europe, a record like that is developed in a couple years. Same goes for Brazil who have a similar system.

If you dont have an understanding of how mma promotions work in Europe than you shouldnt have an opinion on this topic. Educate yourself on how it works and then you can say....."ok, i get it now, makes sense" Think about it more of how fighters develop in boxing

Yes, boxers come up and pad their records vs lesser competition. In most cases, they don't even hide the fact that's what they were doing. Someone in another thread posted something said by Khabib's dad that equated to the same thing. That they really didn't want to challenge him much before they were 100% sure he was ready. While most guys start to challenge themselves earlier against better competition (even in Europe and Brazil, though I agree not as quickly as is typical in the U.S.), Khabib was still beating up overmatched regional fighters. Would he have taken a loss early on had he taken a route more similar to what most American fighters do? Impossible to say.

See, the problem is you're focusing on the wrong thing. You tell me to "educate myself", but the thing is that I actually realize that's how things work in other places. It's not right or wrong, it's simply how it's done in some cases. The funny thing is that the whole discussion was about putting into context his unbeaten record prior to him coming to the UFC. He fought basically 2 legit fighters. Again, that's not saying he SHOULD have been fighting better guys to develop in the most efficient way. That was up for his handlers and he to decide. What they've done looks like it's worked pretty well. But IF more up and coming fighters took that route (again, I'm not making a judgement on if it's the best way or not, I'm simply pointing out reality), unbeaten records like Khabib's would be more common than they are now. Especially with American fighters, since (as you sort of pointed out) this isn't the typical path they take.

So the problem wasn't my knowledge or lack thereof, it was that your focus seemed to be fixated on defending his pre-UFC record. Which is puzzling, because your defense is "Well fighting more often in a fighters early years but making almost all the fights against sub par competition is normal in these places". That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact that I originally simply posted his unbeated record needs to be taken in context of who he fought. It doesn't matter WHY he padded his record that way (again, not judging the career path just stating fact), the reality is that it's a padded record. Obviously he's proven himself to be world class. No question. And not just any halfway decent fighter would go undefeated against the guys he beat pre-UFC. Also not what I'm saying. My point is that OTHER world class fighters would have similar records if they were handled the way he was early in their careers.

Hopefully this makes sense to you.

 

[Mixedfights]

Full retard deployed.

 

[JKS]

Yes, boxers come up and pad their records vs lesser competition. In most cases, they don't even hide the fact that's what they were doing. Someone in another thread posted something said by Khabib's dad that equated to the same thing. That they really didn't want to challenge him much before they were 100% sure he was ready. While most guys start to challenge themselves earlier against better competition (even in Europe and Brazil, though I agree not as quickly as is typical in the U.S.), Khabib was still beating up overmatched regional fighters. Would he have taken a loss early on had he taken a route more similar to what most American fighters do? Impossible to say.

See, the problem is you're focusing on the wrong thing. You tell me to "educate myself", but the thing is that I actually realize that's how things work in other places. It's not right or wrong, it's simply how it's done in some cases. The funny thing is that the whole discussion was about putting into context his unbeaten record prior to him coming to the UFC. He fought basically 2 legit fighters. Again, that's not saying he SHOULD have been fighting better guys to develop in the most efficient way. That was up for his handlers and he to decide. What they've done looks like it's worked pretty well. But IF more up and coming fighters took that route (again, I'm not making a judgement on if it's the best way or not, I'm simply pointing out reality), unbeaten records like Khabib's would be more common than they are now. Especially with American fighters, since (as you sort of pointed out) this isn't the typical path they take.

So the problem wasn't my knowledge or lack thereof, it was that your focus seemed to be fixated on defending his pre-UFC record. Which is puzzling, because your defense is "Well fighting more often in a fighters early years but making almost all the fights against sub par competition is normal in these places". That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact that I originally simply posted his unbeated record needs to be taken in context of who he fought. It doesn't matter WHY he padded his record that way (again, not judging the career path just stating fact), the reality is that it's a padded record. Obviously he's proven himself to be world class. No question. And not just any halfway decent fighter would go undefeated against the guys he beat pre-UFC. Also not what I'm saying. My point is that OTHER world class fighters would have similar records if they were handled the way he was early in their careers.

Hopefully this makes sense to you.

I get what you're saying but I cant agree with that because you're claiming its a padded record when I am claiming that he was fighting guys that were not to far from his level. Khabib although had more fights and experience than some of his competition was not far above their level because he himself had a very short mma career at the time and all his fights were coming one after the other. See what I mean? You're talking about sub par competition for him, when in reality he is not fighting below his level. He had 15 fights in exactly three years.....he himself during that time was a developing mma fighter like some of his competition. Other guys were more experienced.

Look at his record....his first 4 fights came in a span of a month where he was a complete mma beginner. How can we talk about his competition being sup bar when he is sub par himself. Look at this next 5 fights after he took a year off.......they all came in a span of 1 year.....another 5 wins but how much more experienced and better is he??? He's only been fighting two years. Now I know you mentioned already that its excusable because its early on and said that why was he still fighting guys like that in his 14th fight. And at that point he was fighting guys with a lot of experience.......the guy he fought in his last fight before the UFC had over 50 pro fights, one opponent he fought after his 10th pro fight had over 20 pro fights and fought guys like Siver, Tumenov prior to Khabib, another guy had same number of fights and won 4 in a row leading up to fighting Khabib in ProFC. I am just looking through his record after 10 fights. There was one fighter who had no fights but the rest had same or more mma experience and were fighting good up and coming fighters. How can a record be padded when he's fighting guys with double and 4x the fights he's had when he himself has been fighting less than three years.

My point is there is a difference between what Khabib was doing in his first 16 fights and what a guy like Fedor did (to some extent) and what a fighter like Khabilov is doing. Khabib was still developing as a fighter by his 16th fight and was fighting guys his level so that is what I dont call his record padded as opposed to Fedor fighting guys like Nagata, Ogawa, Zuly, Lindland, Choi when he was already best in the world and #1 HW.

 

[mkess101]

I get what you're saying but I cant agree with that because you're claiming its a padded record when I am claiming that he was fighting guys that were not to far from his level. Khabib although had more fights and experience than some of his competition was not far above their level because he himself had a very short mma career at the time and all his fights were coming one after the other. See what I mean? You're talking about sub par competition for him, when in reality he is not fighting below his level. He had 15 fights in exactly three years.....he himself during that time was a developing mma fighter like some of his competition. Other guys were more experienced.

Look at his record....his first 4 fights came in a span of a month where he was a complete mma beginner. How can we talk about his competition being sup bar when he is sub par himself. Look at this next 5 fights after he took a year off.......they all came in a span of 1 year.....another 5 wins but how much more experienced and better is he??? He's only been fighting two years. Now I know you mentioned already that its excusable because its early on and said that why was he still fighting guys like that in his 14th fight. And at that point he was fighting guys with a lot of experience.......the guy he fought in his last fight before the UFC had over 50 pro fights, one opponent he fought after his 10th pro fight had over 20 pro fights and fought guys like Siver, Tumenov prior to Khabib, another guy had same number of fights and won 4 in a row leading up to fighting Khabib in ProFC. I am just looking through his record after 10 fights. There was one fighter who had no fights but the rest had same or more mma experience and were fighting good up and coming fighters. How can a record be padded when he's fighting guys with double and 4x the fights he's had when he himself has been fighting less than three years.

My point is there is a difference between what Khabib was doing in his first 16 fights and what a guy like Fedor did (to some extent) and what a fighter like Khabilov is doing. Khabib was still developing as a fighter by his 16th fight and was fighting guys his level so that is what I dont call his record padded as opposed to Fedor fighting guys like Nagata, Ogawa, Zuly, Lindland, Choi when he was already best in the world and #1 HW.

0-2, 1-1, 4-3, 0-0

Unless the info I got is wrong (I don't think it is), those are the records of Khabib's 11-15th opponents (where do you see him fighting someone with 20+ pro fights after his 10th fight?--aside from the 27-22 guy). Then like you said his 16th had 49 pro fights (27-22). The guy with the 4-3 record I can agree that (depending on who he'd fought, how they went, etc) you could POSSIBLY argue was "on Khabib's level". The other 3 guys? C'mon. If you've won 10 straight fights to start your career and then fight a guy who's 0-2 against other regional fighters, you aren't fighting a guy "on your level". Same as if you are 11-0 and he's 1-1. Or esp if you're 14-0 and he hasn't fought yet!

Again, I am NOT saying this was a bad or shady way to bring Khabib along. His camp's focus was to turn him into the best fighter he could be and make his career arc toward being the best in the world. You can't argue it so far, right? But that's a totally different discussion than whether his record is padded. It is, and I don't think there's any denying it, but I also don't really think it matters. He's stepped up and beaten legit top level guys now, so whatever they did with him in bringing him along has worked.

And no, it's not the same as guys who got to the top and THEN padded their records, I totally agree. Khabib won't do that, and the UFC wouldn't let him even if he wanted to (and he wouldn't, it's not how he's wired).

The whole point of my post was not to bash Khabib at all. It was just to give context to his record.

Edit: The guy with 20+ fights you meant Khalibov I think. Yeah that was his 10th or 11th fight. Obviously that's a good fight for him at that point. It's the next 4 guys that probably had no business being in there with him. Again, it's worked, so who am I to say he shouldn't have fought them. But it's padding a record, plain and simple.