Here is my big question: WHY are you Liberal, or Conservative

[goldennirvana]

It's hard to pin down Jesus, because, let's face it, we're getting a mythologized account and getting it at second or third hand at best.

That being said, the best way to describe him as seen through the Gospel similarities would be: intentionally apolitical and extremely antipathetic to wealth but highly concerned with ethics, charity, and-- perhaps above all-- integrity.

So, not Donald Trump.

Good god man, you people can't stop thinking about Trump. He's on your mind, every living second. In a topic that has nothing to do with Trump, you manage to bring him up. LOL

And no, it's not hard to pin down where Jesus would've stood on issues such as: abortion, gay rights, transgenderism, Islam, single motherhood & gluttony. The left supports all these. And there is no way Jesus would have.

 

[goldennirvana]

Nope

They cover up Muslim rape gangs, in the name of diversity.

 

[goldennirvana]

“Fake News.”

At least you admit the left came up with that (they suspiciously like to ignore that fact). The right merely took it, and used it against them. And they did it so effectively, the left loses their mind over it. LOL

 

[cooks1]

Depends how you mean it. On the simplest level, I'm a liberal because I think liberals make much better arguments for their positions than socialists or right-wingers. Like, climate change is real and is caused by human activity. There's no good argument against that. Regressive tax cuts don't drive growth. Poverty is mostly a result of a market economy (in all market economies about half the population--children, the elderly, and the disabled mostly--don't get market income and only about half of them are dependents of someone/s with enough market income to keep the household out of poverty). Etc.

I think those are just matters of objective truth, but it's a little misleading because many people on the right argue for positions in bad faith. Like, I think climate-science denial comes from people not really wanting to face or especially address reality rather than people actually being too dumb to understand it.

Well said. I lean liberal because I believe that while capitalism and market economies are better than the alternatives, they are not perfect. Like most other systems, they trend toward the centralization of wealth. And as wealth becomes more and more centralized in any society, there are, in the end, only 2 ways to deal with that.

1) Take steps to de-centralize the wealth to some extent. I prefer this because I think history has shown it leads to more stable societies with better outcomes all the way around.

2) Take steps to protect the centralized wealth. I do not prefer this because it leads to concentration of power, and reduced freedom for a large % of the populace. Continued and escalating income disparity, centralization of wealth and power, and protecting of same, inevitably leads to large scale conflict. Resulting in either overthrow of the power (revolution) or large scale oppression and murder of a large % of the society. Regardless of the outcome, neither place would be a fun place to live.

In the end, I believe most, though not all, conservatives are people that are, while liberal, just a little less liberal than others. There are very few 'true' conservatives that want the government to do absolutely nothing but military. Not many people understand what that would look like. But if they had to get out of their car and either pay large sums of money, labor, or 'sacrifice' just to travel down a 'private' road, they would rethink their mindset pretty fast. People just don't grasp the absurdity of living that way.

 

[trac209]

I went into this knowing you weren't going to accept the facts that were laid out in front of you because they weren't in line with your feelings.

But you can't prove I'm wrong because I'm not.

Yes you’re right the overwhelming evidence points to the fact there is far more right wing extremists the left.....smh

 

[M3t4tr0n]

Do you think Jesus would've been pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, pro-transgenderism, pro-Islam, pro-single motherhood & pro-gluttony?

Yes. Also healthcare and open borders

 

[Son of Jamin]

I value freedom and economic mobility.

I have seen what "Democratic Socialism" does to a nation and a people and it isn't pretty. I have strong social conservative views but I would never want to enforce them on others and at the same token, I don't want to finance women peeing on themselves on a theater stage (a publicly finances show in Sweden)...

Small government
Maximizing individual freedom
Low taxes to force the government to solely focus on the core of a welfare state

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I'm a registered Republican because I was a disaffected liberal who hated the new left and all the PC/SJW BS and I hoped the Party would go in a more libertarian direction. I'm a RINO because I hate Trump and the direction he's pushing the party in. I'm a social democrat on economic issues because I believe the last 40 years or so of neoliberal policies have fucked the average person. I'm a libertarian on social issues/free speech because of my strong belief in personal liberty, individualism and fairness. Basically, what I would like to see is that we borrow more from Western Europe in terms of economic issues and having third parties, while doubling down on our Constitutional rights, especially the 1st and 4th Amendments, and continuing to protect the 2nd within reason. I've coined the phrase "libertarian social democracy" to describe my current views.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Doesn't make sense. Vast majority of the left do not support open borders and I'm not sure what "gender crap" exactly is.

Open borders is mostly supported by big-L Libertarians and the fringe far left, and perhaps privately by some country club Republicans relishing the thought of all that cheap labor. Most liberals, progressives and people who call themselves libertarians, but are not members of the Libertarian Party, don't advocate for open borders. Even among registered Libertarians, it's far from a universal consensus. Ron Paul is fairly hard-line on immigration, while Gary Johnson is more of an open borders guy, but even he barely talks about it. If I had to guess, I would say more are against it than for it among libertarians.

 

[Trotsky]

You said it was worse than them wanting to kill you.

Don't question his experience with brown people. It was literally worse than literally living under literally Hitler.

I value freedom and economic mobility.

I have seen what "Democratic Socialism" does to a nation and a people and it isn't pretty. I have strong social conservative views but I would never want to enforce them on others and at the same token, I don't want to finance women peeing on themselves on a theater stage (a publicly finances show in Sweden)...

Small government
Maximizing individual freedom
Low taxes to force the government to solely focus on the core of a welfare state

You're complaining that the Nordic model countries -- the literal core, typification, and extreme version of rhetorical democratic socialism in American discourse - aren't pretty?

Have you ever been to the United States? A solid third of our population live more miserably than just about any of yours. I live a couple miles from a three square mile area where living standards and crime rates are worse than Iraq, where average household incomes are solidly below the individual poverty rate, and where upward economic mobility is almost nonexistent due to suppressed wages, dismal education and transportation, and access to basic living necessities like healthcare being pure debt traps.

 

[Son of Jamin]

Don't question his experience with brown people. It was literally worse than literally living under literally Hitler.
You're complaining that the Nordic model countries -- the literal core, typification, and extreme version of rhetorical democratic socialism in American discourse - aren't pretty?

Have you ever been to the United States? A solid third of our population live more miserably than just about any of yours. I live a couple miles from a three square mile area where living standards and crime rates are worse than Iraq, where average household incomes are solidly below the individual poverty rate, and where upward economic mobility is almost nonexistent due to suppressed wages, dismal education and transportation, and access to basic living necessities like healthcare being pure debt traps.

I have been to Seattle, Las Vegas, Miami, Florida, NYC, Portland and a family member studied at a university on the other side of the Atlantic, albeit none of that really taught me about the issues that many people are facing in America.

There is no denying that America has its own share of problems with destitute people and poor educational opportunities but using the same democratic socialism as in Sweden is bound to fail. The left has managed to promote the narrative that it was them who built Sweden from a poor agricultural society in the mid-19th century to one of the richest countries in the world up until the 70's. It is actually quite the contrary, when the socialists in the 70s began to expand the nanny state, it was the beginning of a downward spiral, from which Sweden never rose from. The wealth in Sweden came from entrepreneurial spirits that built global corporations aided by low taxes and a catch-up in the industrial revolution.

There are numerous things I can show forth as evidence for the problems with democratic socialism but I think our pensions will showcase it pretty well:

In the 50's, Swedes voted for a guarantee pension but that your income should have a major impact on your retirement pension. Fast forward to 2018. If you work your entire life until you are 65 years old with a salary of $37,500 annually, you get approximately $100 more per month in retirement pension as a person that hasn't work a single day in his life. This is because the person that hasn't worked receives various government subsidizes.

Swedes also work 6 more years than the EU-average, despite of this, we have among the lowest pensions and among the highest number of poor pensioners in the EU.

 

[goldennirvana]

Yes. Also healthcare and open borders

 

[The Game]

I am a Liberal/socialist because its a better system.
If you look at the countries in the world that work best for the largest amount of the population they are usually democratic socialist.

And they’re old world countries with deep pockets most of the time.

 

[Lubaolong]

High-income households tend to get the biggest benefits from Republican policies, so that’s a very strong reason in itself.

 

[shunyata]

Depends how you mean it. On the simplest level, I'm a liberal because I think liberals make much better arguments for their positions than socialists or right-wingers. Like, climate change is real and is caused by human activity. There's no good argument against that. Regressive tax cuts don't drive growth. Poverty is mostly a result of a market economy (in all market economies about half the population--children, the elderly, and the disabled mostly--don't get market income and only about half of them are dependents of someone/s with enough market income to keep the household out of poverty). Etc.

I think those are just matters of objective truth, but it's a little misleading because many people on the right argue for positions in bad faith. Like, I think climate-science denial comes from people not really wanting to face or especially address reality rather than people actually being too dumb to understand it.

This is how I feel but to expand upon Jack's statement I personally believe that modern American concept of liberalism vs conservatism is corrupted and heavily falsified. The political spectrum has swung so far to the "right" that large swaths of the electorate that would have been considered conservative Republicans based on their positions in 1954 can now voice those same positions and be labeled and dismissed as liberals.

As if the values of Eisenhower are somehow leftist.

Hell the things Reagan did (raise taxes, restrict open carry in CA, push for the Brady Bill) would get him primaried right out of the modern GOP if he attempted them in 2018.


The tribalism is a false duality. But truth is real.

 

[12ga.]

I've always been liberal - my parents were liberal. It's called empathy, living like Christ whatever is it what it is and I don't think I can change.

I'm socially pretty conservative tho. I don't think alt lifestyles/porn and stuff are emotionally healthy or good for society. Objectifying people is dehumanizing.

Chris Hedges liberal.

 

[12ga.]

This is how I feel but to expand upon Jack's statement I personally believe that modern American concept of liberalism vs conservatism is corrupted and heavily falsified. The political spectrum has swung so far to the "right" that large swaths of the electorate that would have been considered conservative Republicans based on their positions in 1954 can now voice those same positions and be labeled and dismissed as liberals.

As if the values of Eisenhower are somehow leftist.

Hell the things Reagan did (raise taxes, restrict open carry in CA, push for the Brady Bill) would get him primaried right out of the modern GOP if he attempted them in 2018.


The tribalism is a false duality. But truth is real.

This is so true. I once read something over at dialykos that Eisenhower would be considered a communist today economically. He actually raised top marginal rate to 92% to pay for the roads and war with a republican house!

Today both parties are totally captured tho by transnational billionaires.

 

[machidafan99]

With myself and others it's not so black and white.

The easiest way to to put it is:

Socially Libertarian, Fiscally Conservative
On the trade and immigration continuum of Protectionist and Globalist go to the middle and take 3 steps towards Protectionist.

I dislike both parties in general but utterly despise the DNC.
Registered Republican and the older I get the more conservative in all areas I get.

 

[The Game]

I don't care what they do. I don't think children need to be exposed to it.

*claps.*

 

[The Game]

Conservative because i see government as any other service as a cost and i rather keep more of my income rather than pay for things i already have just because others are incapable / rather be responsible for my own safety net. I also believe in / want the competition for resources that social hierarchies bring. I believe policy should be directed at benefiting the top 15-20%, as they are the ones who pay 99% of taxation. I do wish that conservatism is the US particularly was less based on religious dogma and see things like climate change as real as well as potentially a new economy entity that can be monetized for capital gain

Another great post.