Good guy with a gun (uniformed cop) at Parkland Highschool shooting didn't engage shooter...

[panamaican]

I saw this story and it contradicts the argument that if there's an armed individual around, it will deter criminal actors. And it undermines the idea that handing guns to untrained individuals is a realistic deterrent strategy. This doesn't change my position on the 2nd Amendment but it should underscore that some of the defenses aren't infallible truths.

Glad he resigned but I also understand why he didn't run into a building to risk getting himself shot.

I wish this whole debate would centralize around a clear understanding of what the 2nd Amendment really means instead of knee jerk reactions to tragedy or fantasies about gun owner courageousness.

 

[Alphafail]

Disgusting....

living with this for the rest of life will be his punishment.

You underestimate human capacity to blame others. Rest assured that in his mind he did absolutely nothing wrong and nobody knows what poor him went through that day and he's actually the victim in this story.

 

[Gregolian]

I feel you - but until you are put in a life or death situation, does anyone of us know how we'd react?

I am not making excuses for him because he was supposed to be a trained professional and it was his duty to protect, just bringing a human point of view to this.

He obviously failed in his duty and is a coward.. but I do pity him for disgracing himself and having to live with that shit the rest of his days.

We don't but not many of us here wear a badge either... It's like you would assume it's in their job description "you might have to deal with an active shooter someday".

Great example being that high school football coach. Unarmed, shielded kids from harm and ended up passing at the hospital. That dude didn't have a gun OR any sort of kevlar vest and still did what he did.

And the dude with the training and the equipment was a coward that hung out outside. Fuck that shit. People can say "he didn't know if there were multiple shooters blahblah", who cares. He stood outside and did NOTHING. He could have gone to an exit to help get kids out and shit but instead chose to stay put. Look at what NYPD and the Fie Dept did after two fucking planes flew into the towers.

 

[IGIT]

hi and good morning pan,

I saw this story and it contradicts the argument that if there's an armed individual around, it will deter criminal actors. And it undermines the idea that handing guns to untrained individuals is a realistic deterrent strategy.

maybe if the shooters know the teachers are armed, the teachers would be the first to get shot.

Glad he resigned but I also understand why he didn't run into a building to risk getting himself shot.

yeah.

i feel empathy for the guy. i consider his response the most human and most normal. he didn't exactly take flight, but he didn't charge forward either.

he took cover and waited for the cavalry.

- IGIT

 

[USA!USA!]

We don't but not many of us here wear a badge either... It's like you would assume it's in their job description "you might have to deal with an active shooter someday".

Great example being that high school football coach. Unarmed, shielded kids from harm and ended up passing at the hospital. That dude didn't have a gun OR any sort of kevlar vest and still did what he did.

And the dude with the training and the equipment was a coward that hung out outside. Fuck that shit. People can say "he didn't know if there were multiple shooters blahblah", who cares. He stood outside and did NOTHING. He could have gone to an exit to help get kids out and shit but instead chose to stay put. Look at what NYPD and the Fie Dept did after two fucking planes flew into the towers.

Yeah I agree 100% I am not making excuses for him other than he found out he was a coward that day and didn't serve those kids the way he was expected to.

He is still a human though - not a robot. I don't think he should be crucified the same way the school shooter is. He is just a coward who didn't do his job. Not to say he isn't a disgrace.

 

[Gregolian]

Yeah I agree 100% I am not making excuses for him other than he found out he was a coward that day and didn't serve those kids the way he was expected to.

He is still a human though - not a robot. I don't think he should be crucified the same way the school shooter is. He is just a coward who didn't do his job. Not to say he isn't a disgrace.

He won't get crucified the way the shooter is going to be but all the criticism is more than deserved IMO.

 

[Drenalin]

Because "good guy with a gun" is the constant bullshit NRA pushback answer to any shooting - "moar gunz"! "Good guy with a gun" is being used to arm teachers who will have a weekender or training. NRA is the gun manufacturer lobby who wants to sell more guns. That's it.

Well the NRA isn’t calling police officers “good guy with a gun”. They say that when talking about civilians which is completely different.

Also did you know some pilots are armed now after 911. There is at least one gun on every plane. My buddy is a pilot & he carries on board. He had to take a training course & I think he has to take a refresher class or something every year.

 

[USA!USA!]

He won't get crucified the way the shooter is going to be but all the criticism is more than deserved IMO.

Absolutely - he failed that community.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

This is akin to those dude's in like 2004 that refused to go to Iraq because "I didn't know I'd be asked to fight"

Bitch, YOU'RE IN THE ARMY INFANTRY! YOU HAVE TO ASK TO BE PUT THERE PUTO!


I don't.

thats not really what i meant.

ask any guy about that shooter situation, and id bet youd get near 100% of us saying that we'd go in and stop the guy. put any guy in the sitaution, and you'd get much less than 100% actually running in there to do it. john smith may truly believe that he'd run in and stop the guy, but would he when the time comes? no way to know.

 

[panamaican]

Yeah I agree 100% I am not making excuses for him other than he found out he was a coward that day and didn't serve those kids the way he was expected to.

He is still a human though - not a robot. I don't think he should be crucified the same way the school shooter is. He is just a coward who didn't do his job. Not to say he isn't a disgrace.

I think he absolutely should be crucified the same as the shooter...maybe worse.

He took that job and the tax payer dollars that went with it specifically to defend those kids in that type of situation. I understand his personal failings in the moment of crises but with that failing he earned the crucifixion.

 

[Gregolian]

thats not really what i meant.

ask any guy about that shooter situation, and id bet youd get near 100% of us saying that we'd go in and stop the guy. put any guy in the sitaution, and you'd get much less than 100% actually running in there to do it. john smith may truly believe that he'd run in and stop the guy, but would he when the time comes? no way to know.

My critique isn't so much he didn't go in to shoot the guy.

He STILL could have done SOMETHING from like an exit trying to direct kids to safety and shit and it sounds like he didn't even do that.

 

[danny23]

"Home of the Brave"....

 

[USA!USA!]

I think he absolutely should be crucified the same as the shooter...maybe worse.

He took that job and the tax payer dollars that went with it specifically to defend those kids in that type of situation. I understand his personal failings in the moment of crises but with that failing he earned the crucifixion.

He didn't murder anyone, though. Let's be real - while he failed in his job, he isn't the criminal here.

 

[Gregolian]

He didn't murder anyone, though. Let's be real - while he failed in his job, he isn't the criminal here.

He isn't.

The ones that SHOULD be getting fucking nailed to the cross then drawn and quartered though are the local PD and the fucking FBI.

Local PD had been called to the kid's house like what... 40 times in a 3 year span? THAT didn't trigger an investigation of some kind? Then the FBI is warned about the shitlord and did nothing last month.

 

[oldshadow]

A kid at school is hitting other kids with a stick. Do we?

A) Give all the kids sticks?
B) Give only the adept kids sticks who know how to use them?
C) Take away the stick?

So your answer is to make it illegal for everyone in the country to have a stick including the adults.

How about we have an adult trained with a stick to stop the kid with the stick so they can take it away.

And in this case the guy trained with the stick failed at his job miserably.

This is not normal as I think most cops and even non cops would do something.

In this case looked at the people that acted even if they were not armed.

I don't understand anyone giving this cop a pass on this.

 

[BudKing8806]

Police officer pay varies wildly based on the region of the country. The pay in some departments (EG Nassau and Suffolk County PD on Long Island) is mind-bogglingly high.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/13/cops-massive-salaries-are-robbing-taxpayers-blind/

A friend of my dad's is pulling down double pensions from the the NYPD and Nassau county PD. He left the NYPD as a sergeant and was hired then as a lieutenant in the Hofstra University police detachment. He currently lives in a huge house on a golf course in Arizona and owns his own Cessna.

In my area, the average pay is around 30k per year. I wouldn't put my life on the line for that. Respect to the ones that do and perform their duties.

 

[panamaican]

He didn't murder anyone, though. Let's be real - while he failed in his job, he isn't the criminal here.

And he's not being charged with a crime, like the criminal will. But the social crucifixion is perfectly acceptable, imo.

 

[USA!USA!]

And he's not being charged with a crime, like the criminal will. But the social crucifixion is perfectly acceptable, imo.

Sure, but not sure I agree with what you said that he should be crucified worse than the person who was pulling the trigger killing children.

 

[USA!USA!]

He isn't.

The ones that SHOULD be getting fucking nailed to the cross then drawn and quartered though are the local PD and the fucking FBI.

Local PD had been called to the kid's house like what... 40 times in a 3 year span? THAT didn't trigger an investigation of some kind? Then the FBI is warned about the shitlord and did nothing last month.

Yes, I agree. That definitely seems more negligent than a scared, cowardly guard that failed in their job when the shooting already began.

 

[HereticBD]

I think he absolutely should be crucified the same as the shooter...maybe worse.

That's just absurd. Socially or criminally, he does not deserve the same wrath as a maniac who killed 17 innocent people.