Free-market libertarian think tank concludes single payer healthcare...will save country $2 trillion

[ocean size]

1) Reduce the cost (and quality) of healthcare provided;
2) Increase the rates at which the government pays for services (ie, more debt and/or higher taxes); or
3) Cut back on nurses and doctors salaries.

The likely outcome is higher payouts than the standard medicare rates. The two trillion in savings was based on standard medicare rates, with a better payout we could be break even and everyone gets care. Not sure on issues like drug negotiations, right now the gov't can't negotiate prices, something congress could fix today bc it is completely assinine.

If hospitals aren't run like for-profit institutions with tons of administrators making shitloads of dough anymore, I'll shed no tears. Also hopefully doctors do make a little less, because right now shitty practices like balance billing are legal in some states where they intentionally 'consult' when they are out of network during an unwitting patient's surgery for huge fees.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

At this point you are either dense or just being argumentative to be argumentative. Maybe your just stubborn?
Either way, its a fact U.S. Doctors are better than Cuban Doctors. Mostly because of money. You can cling to
"But Cuba is ALMOST as good as the U.S. and we dont pay our doctors shit." all you want but almost is not the same and definitely not better.
We have better doctors because we pay them more. They spend more on their education. We spend more on the infrastructure they will use in practice. Every aspect of medicine costs money and money makes our medicine better than Cuba's. You said it yourself. So go ahead, enjoy your almost as good doctors and when a medical procedure goes wrong or they dont have the tools they need due to money you can feel ok about it because the stupid Americans spend way more and barely get better service.

First, I never said or implied I was from Cuba. Pretty telling that that's what you got out of the exchange.

Second, yes, lots of money and resources makes medical care better, but outrageous doctor salaries does not have to be part of this. Remember that this was the point of the argument all along, Do doctors need tremendous compensation in order to be good? Cuban doctors' truly meager salaries prove that they don't.

I admitted that Cuba is an extreme example but the point still stands: doctors don't need to be the far and away best-paid profession in order to be great. What they need is lots of resources and institutional support. Keep the current funding of facilities and research but cut their salaries in half and you'll certainly get the same results.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

And there are numerous reports how they are inefficient, Brasil only got them because the party in power at the time had close relations with Cuba.

What about the other 76 countries? They all also have close relations with Cuba? Because the very Miami Herald article you cite next says

According to an article published by the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, there were 37,000 Cuban health professionals working in 77 countries during 2015.

Pretty amazing that all these countries are spending billions to import doctors that are inefficient. What kind of gypsy magic are these Cubans pulling to fool so many people??

Education in Cuba is "free", they had no loans, they are simply forced to worked for the state and are not free to leave Cuba. That´s slavery

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article129125864.html

No shit they had no loans, that's why I said "broadly similar" and not "exactly the same."

Education, food, healthcare and a bunch of other things in Cuba are paid by the state, so logically most of the remuneration for your services go to the state.

 

[DespicablePeep]

Pretty amazing that all these countries are spending billions to import doctors that are inefficient. What kind of gypsy magic are these Cubans pulling to fool so many people??.

Lets see Cuba gets payed U$2.6K per doctor. Brasil has 1.2 thousand Cubans that´s U$37M a year. Some people are getting rich through slave labor and kickbacks

No shit they had no loans, that's why I said "broadly similar" and not "exactly the same." Education, food, healthcare and a bunch of other things in Cuba are paid by the state, so logically most of the remuneration for your services go to the state.

So you are for slavery? In your head its ok for a state to force people to work, because if it was for their will all the Cuban doctors would defect.

https://www.nytimes.com/es/2017/09/30/medicos-cubanos-empleo-brasil-contratos/

"La rebelión de los médicos cubanos en Brasil: ‘Te cansas de ser esclavo"

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf



https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/medicare-for-all-mercatus-center-report

It would save money sure, but at the cost of thousands of high paying jobs.

@Rational Poster Vs @Trotsky


I wanna see it. Make it happen uncle Dana!

 

[Trotsky]

@Rational Poster Vs @Trotsky


I wanna see it. Make it happen uncle Dana!

Haha, skip ahead like seven or eight pages.

 

[Rational Poster]

@Rational Poster Vs @Trotsky


I wanna see it. Make it happen uncle Dana!

Don't get it twisted.

I support UHC, but I don't support the idea that it's some plug and play fix to all our problems either.

Short-medium term it would cost thousands of jobs and our politicians will fight to protect them and their own seats.

It is very difficult to make any major changes to the budget because government healthcare (and military) spending are subsidies that support thousands and thousands of jobs at this point in time.

 

[Greoric]

Oh snap

@Greoric is this true ?

Without looking at anything other than the headline its certainly possible, if not probable. No other country burdens their providers with the same kind of compliance costs as we do (Because they're the ones running it!). The conflation happens when you presume we have a free market in HC. We most certainly do not. We have a Frankenstein of bullshit.

 

[Greoric]

Right. Gotta keep poor people in their place even if it does bankrupt the country.

Excellent argument to get rid of government!

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Lets see Cuba gets payed U$2.6K per doctor. Brasil has 1.2 thousand Cubans that´s U$37M a year. Some people are getting rich through slave labor and kickbacks

I'm guessing some of it goes to enrich a few. The rest goes to fund K through grad school education, housing, food, etc.

So you are for slavery? In your head its ok for a state to force people to work, because if it was for their will all the Cuban doctors would defect.

https://www.nytimes.com/es/2017/09/30/medicos-cubanos-empleo-brasil-contratos/

"La rebelión de los médicos cubanos en Brasil: ‘Te cansas de ser esclavo"

Cubans have been defecting for decades. If the defections ever reach a point where they create a problem, I'm sure things'll change. Despite all of these defections, Cuba still leads Latin America in health standards so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

And of course, this is despite constant US attempts to undermine it. Your own article says how for decades the US exacerbated brain drain in Cuba (what level of piece of shit you have to be in order to purposely brain drain a poor country is another topic) with that doctor permit program.

 

[DespicablePeep]

So you have no problem with slave labor