Do people really think the shoulder crank jones did was "CHEAP"?

Mistabutts said:
If he stepped over for a throw like a tai otoshi in Judo, he'd have taken his arm home.

Also It's like a standing Mir lock, nothing at all wrong with it
Nice Gif, here's what has come to be known as the Mir lock as i mentioned
frankfuckinmirzn9_medium.gif
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DeathxxMetal said:
It's a standing Mir lock, lol. Actually looks like it could've been a standing armbar if he had straightened the elbow.
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Yeah, you guys are right. I can now see how Jones twists the elbow towards Glover's chest instead of directly upwards. Thanks. Really cool stuff regardless, I have no idea why some people are actually calling this a dirty move. I mean, what the fuck, punching someone in the face might end up breaking their eye socket, yet punching someone in the face is not considered unsportsmanlike.

Yanking someone's arm when they don't expect it to punish for a lazy underhook to cause damage to the arm is somehow a different thing?
 
DysDave said:
When you get in the octagon, you know there is a danger that shit's gonna happen that's gonna hurt. That's just part of it. What you CAN do, is try to minimise certain risks that are unnecessary.

Kicks and punches are pretty hard to minimise the damage. Ribs are going to get broken, jaws will get broken, and it's going to be painful. But there's just no way round it. But what they HAVE done, is made headbutts illegal. Made 12-6 elbows illegal. Made soccer kicks to downed opponents, low blows, eyepokes illegal.

Because it is a SPORT first, and that means trying to take as many steps to make sure your fighters are safe and can fight for as long as possible. That's why the fight is stopped the second an opponent goes out for even a second- because potential concussions are no joke.

Uncontrolled subs, IMO, are one of those things that are just down to the fighter. It's pretty hard to police, and falls into that horrible grey area similar to inside leg kicks- you don't know if a guy intentionally went for the kick to hit a low blow, or it was accidental. But if you go for a sub intending to damage your opponent without giving them a way of giving up- that's just low, and no different to aiming a leg kick with the intention of cracking the nuts along with it. Unsporting, but not illegal.
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I have a few things to say to you after your little rants.

It's a business first and foremost. These guys want a paycheck more than they want their opponent to be safe.
You sound like you haven't got a stomach for violence.
I am a sporting man as much as any, but you have to allow for the fact that dirty tactics will always be present. If nothing else, it adds drama, and makes people talk, which in turn means $$$ for the UFC.
If you get your arm broken in a fight it's your fault for not tapping or getting in a bad position in the first place, the first thing a ref says to a fighter is "Protect YOURSELF at all times," not protect your opponent.
Go watch a point style kickboxing match, if you want martial arts with less injury risks, they have great technique and no doubt could kick ass if the rules permitted.
Have a nice day.
 
Irenaeus said:
Arguing against a homogenous mass instead of the actual guys you're talking to, is just another kind of strawman, and questioning their motivations instead of adressing their arguments is only a way to avoid the actual issue.
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DLX said:
Everything Jones does is cheap because he wins. Now if he would just lose for once, I'd be a fan. But dammit he keeps winning and it makes me so angry!
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This is kind of the stuff I was talking about. I can sympathize with needing to vent, and satire can be good at times, but posts like that is a big amount of the forum content after a Jones fight, and it doesn't really add much to the discussion.

Sorry for singling you out, btw. Everybody does this.
 
I just don't like anything thatch guy does
 
Good move, don't see how anyone could lable that "cheap"?
 
I dislike the guy strongly and welcome any chance to criticize him, but that shoulder crank was completely legal, not to mention brilliant.
 
@some people in this thread:

I'm not a fan of Jones', but it's more to do with his imo douchey personality than anything else (although recently, I think the whole eyepoking thing is a very serious issue to me as well, after realizing just how often he is doing it)... Aside from that, even as a "hater" I can admit the kid is a damn good fighter, and also would admit that even without the eyepokes, he was completely outclassing Glover in that fight. Just because someone doesn't share the same opinion of a fighter as you, doesn't automatically make them brain dead mongoloids, suddenly incapable of forming separate and rational thoughts about them.

@ the actual thread topic/Regarding the shoulder crank/attack... I thought it was a fairly brilliant move, honestly, and it's something I wouldn't have ever immediately thought of, despite frequently utilizing similarly principled attacks in Judo grip fighting and for BJJ situations... albeit primarily as a method to leverage an opponent into moving a way you would like them to move, rather than anything resembling a potential finish in it's own right. Very cool stuff from Jones.
 
Mistabutts said:
I have a few things to say to you after your little rants.

It's a business first and foremost. These guys want a paycheck more than they want their opponent to be safe.
You sound like you haven't got a stomach for violence.
I am a sporting man as much as any, but you have to allow for the fact that dirty tactics will always be present. If nothing else, it adds drama, and makes people talk, which in turn means $$$ for the UFC.
If you get your arm broken in a fight it's your fault for not tapping or getting in a bad position in the first place, the first thing a ref says to a fighter is "Protect YOURSELF at all times," not protect your opponent.
Go watch a point style kickboxing match, if you want martial arts with less injury risks, they have great technique and no doubt could kick ass if the rules permitted.
Have a nice day.
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Lol, there's always at least one.

I have no issues with violence, like at all. I've watched Jones and his broken toe, Silva and his broken leg, and countless people with blood gushing from their faces. Believe me, it's not something that concerns me.

But I do have an ideal of how I like to see fights. If that differs from yours, cool, no worries. When it comes to submissions (as a fighter myself, I use these submissions all the time) I'd be mad pissed if a guy just broke my elbow or shoulder with some sloppy armbar that he made no attempt to lock in, and just cranked with all his might half-assed.

To me, that is straight up bullshit. If I get punched in the face and my orbital broken, that's part of fighting. If my ribs get broken from a kick, again- that's part of it. But I expect to be given a chance before someone snaps my elbow, that's just how I view it.

Will dirty tactics always be present? Of course they will. That doesn't mean I have to like them, however. Have a nice day.
 
HIMBOB said:
It hasn't been done much before so it gets people off side.

I have no issues with it at all.
(Not a Jones fan)


Its kind of like most wrist locks, you need to go hard at it to get it.

I think some people don't realise that when these guys go for subs they don't allow the other person to tap, instead the just reef on that limb with 100% of their force. If they tap they stop and let go, but till then they are applying it at 100% (unless they don't wish to commit to it or something). But that is not out of any sense of preservation of the opponant.
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I'm totally against wrist locks. I had a guy break my hand grabbing fingers trying to wrap my wrist up. They're cheap and not very technical at all
 
Jesus, that was barely more than a minute into the fight. It's incredible how well Glover did over the rest of that round, which was the most competitive round anyone other than Gus has had against JBJ.

Beautiful and artistic move.
 
I hated it.

For one, its just too close to jiu-jitsu, being a submission and all. We all know jiu-jitsu has no place in MMA, it doesn't work, it is ineffective, and I really don't know how the sport of MMA is even related to Jiujitsu anymore.

Second, as I said, its a submission, not a strike, which is lame. I paid my $55 to watch two men dance around and trade inside leg kicks and jabs for 5 rounds, NOT try to hurt each other, ya know?







In case the sarcasm wasn't obvious, no, I had not problem with it; He won, it was legal.
 
I don't like it, trying to injure someone is different to trying to cause damage with conventional fighting imo. Same class as foot stomps and covering the mouth. It's innovative in a flying-to-a-3rd-world-country-to-subvert-child-s3x-laws kind've way, sure there's an argument it's within the rules and laws but that doesn't make it right.
 
Some dweebs no doubt do.

I however thought it delightful.

I was slightly disappointed that he didn't dig in a knee to the gut at the height of the torque.

That would have been tremendous.

Great to see the guy in beast mode.

Great fight.
 
if it was done on the ground, it wouldn't be seen as cheap. oh, the silliness. if Glover would've submitted, that would've been one of the greatest holds to date.
 
DysDave said:
Lol, there's always at least one.

I have no issues with violence, like at all. I've watched Jones and his broken toe, Silva and his broken leg, and countless people with blood gushing from their faces. Believe me, it's not something that concerns me.

But I do have an ideal of how I like to see fights. If that differs from yours, cool, no worries. When it comes to submissions (as a fighter myself, I use these submissions all the time) I'd be mad pissed if a guy just broke my elbow or shoulder with some sloppy armbar that he made no attempt to lock in, and just cranked with all his might half-assed.

To me, that is straight up bullshit. If I get punched in the face and my orbital broken, that's part of fighting. If my ribs get broken from a kick, again- that's part of it. But I expect to be given a chance before someone snaps my elbow, that's just how I view it.

Will dirty tactics always be present? Of course they will. That doesn't mean I have to like them, however. Have a nice day.
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And what chance or warning do you get before the kick or punch hits you in the face that you don't get before someone yanks your elbow the way jones did to glover?
The trick to catching someone in a submission is not giving away that you're going for it, it's the same principal.
 
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