Do people really think the shoulder crank jones did was "CHEAP"? | Page 2

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by thatone**, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. jeffduce Black Belt

    jeffduce
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    I ever saw JBJ punch Glover in the face right in front of the Ref ...Cheap shot , only gentle take down should be allowed in MMA.
     
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  2. thatone** Banned

    thatone**
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    do you people realize they are in a fight? when a fighter throws a kick to the liver they intended to damage said liver and or break some ribs. when they punch someone in the jaw they intend to break that jaw. what could be wrong with trying to dislocate someones arm to win a fight?
     
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  3. Irenaeus Black Belt

    Irenaeus
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    Yeah, most defnitely. Everybody is claiming that themselves aren't defined by their party, while simultaneously trying to reduce opponents to unthinking supporters for the other side. Arguing against a homogenous mass instead of the actual guys you're talking to, is just another kind of strawman, and questioning their motivations instead of adressing their arguments is only a way to avoid the actual issue.

    Edit: Note that noe one in this thread is actually claiming it was cheap in any way so far.
     
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  4. DysDave Blue Belt

    DysDave
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    This is actually an extremely relevant point most would do well to remember.

    It won't happen, but it would sure be nice. It really sucks that if you agree with one point raised, you automatically fall under the 'nuthugger/hater' tag, regardless of your actual feelings and opinions.

    It's possible to admire Jones as an athlete and fighter, and also think that the shit he pulls like eyepokes are stupidly dirty. It's possible to respect Ronda as a competitor and dislike her personality. It's possible to think Anderson is great and also think his competition wasn't as good as it could have been.

    But unfortunately, everything is black or white- you're a fan or you're not. No inbetween arguments.
     
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  5. Gorkle Blue Belt

    Gorkle
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    Submission is the admission of defeat. This is why people tap to strikes. Why Bob Sapp taps to being mounted.

    The idea of any hold IS to break a limb or to make the opponent pass out. Just most fighters have the sense to tap out before it happens. Glover could have tapped the second Jones grabbed him like that. He didn't, and Jones cranked it. Glover injured his shoulder as a result. If he had tapped and Jones cranked it, as seen multiple times by Paul Harris, then yes there would be a problem.
     
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  6. ThunderL1ps Brown Belt

    ThunderL1ps
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    No.

    The only thing that bothers me about his technique is the constant eye poking.
     
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  7. DysDave Blue Belt

    DysDave
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    Sure thing, but you can only tap if you have a chance to.

    I'm not talking about that- if an opponent is caught in an armbar but doesn't tap (see Tate/Rousey 1) then crank that shit and break the arm. That's your opponents fault. If you've got them in a choke and they don't tap (see Machida/Jones), then crank until they go limp. That's how it works.

    But when you're in an uncontrolled sub, which applies sudden and potentially bonebreaking pressure with no warning, that's just dangerous. Your opponent has no pain up until the bone is broken or joint is dislocated- and that's just not good.

    Giving your opponent that chance to stop their limb being broken is the key point to whether a sub is 'sporting' or not, IMO.
     
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  8. MMA-woooooh!!!! Purple Belt

    MMA-woooooh!!!!
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    I thought it was dangerous and i liked it, it shows a willingness to win the fight by any means, even at the expense of your opponent. Also i like jon's creativity in applying what may work at the time, something the roster lacks, and i don't even like jon as a personality, but as a fighter he is champ for a reason.
     
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  9. DeathxxMetal Purple Belt

    DeathxxMetal
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    It's a standing Mir lock, lol. Actually looks like it could've been a standing armbar if he had straightened the elbow.
     
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  10. PunchParty Banned

    PunchParty
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    Very smart. Nothing wrong. Mir did the same type of thing.
     
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  11. thatone** Banned

    thatone**
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    from trying what is the difference from trying to break someones jaw or injure their liver with a kick or breaking someones ribs with a knee?
     
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  12. fortysixtwo White Belt

    fortysixtwo
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    I think people did not like it as he just grabbed it and cracked hard without holding the pressure to make it in to an actual submission lock. If he used it as a submission hold instead of just cranking it, then it would not look/sound as bad.

    Personally I thought it was fine but I can understand why people think he was just trying to injure Glover instead of using it to submit Glover.
     
    #32
  13. papasmurf999 Blue Belt

    papasmurf999
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    The only ppl who might have a problem with it are jones haters or ppl who have no idea how to fight. Im not a jones fan by any means but i saw no problem with it. Go watch a highschool or college wrestling match and you see that move use quite regularly. Usually to set up a takedown but if you put enough torque on it it can be used to dislocate someones elbow or shoulder.
     
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  14. DysDave Blue Belt

    DysDave
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    When you get in the octagon, you know there is a danger that shit's gonna happen that's gonna hurt. That's just part of it. What you CAN do, is try to minimise certain risks that are unnecessary.

    Kicks and punches are pretty hard to minimise the damage. Ribs are going to get broken, jaws will get broken, and it's going to be painful. But there's just no way round it. But what they HAVE done, is made headbutts illegal. Made 12-6 elbows illegal. Made soccer kicks to downed opponents, low blows, eyepokes illegal.

    Because it is a SPORT first, and that means trying to take as many steps to make sure your fighters are safe and can fight for as long as possible. That's why the fight is stopped the second an opponent goes out for even a second- because potential concussions are no joke.

    Uncontrolled subs, IMO, are one of those things that are just down to the fighter. It's pretty hard to police, and falls into that horrible grey area similar to inside leg kicks- you don't know if a guy intentionally went for the kick to hit a low blow, or it was accidental. But if you go for a sub intending to damage your opponent without giving them a way of giving up- that's just low, and no different to aiming a leg kick with the intention of cracking the nuts along with it. Unsporting, but not illegal.
     
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  15. JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark

    JudoThrowFiasco
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    Perfectly legal, perfectly fine, perfectly executed.

    I don't think the majority of people are against it anyways.
     
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  16. Dart Feld Gold Belt

    Dart Feld
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    Except there is virtually no difference in this instance. In all of this philosophy about the spirit of submissions people are ignoring technical submissions.

    Rendering a fighter unable to compete through a hold is a perfectly legitimate means of victory.
     
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  17. mjwalters Orange Belt

    mjwalters
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    it's not a tickling competition turkish
     
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  18. Mistabutts Orange Belt

    Mistabutts
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    If he stepped over for a throw like a tai otoshi in Judo, he'd have taken his arm home.

    Also It's like a standing Mir lock, nothing at all wrong with it
    Nice Gif, here's what has come to be known as the Mir lock as i mentioned
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. DLX Brown Belt

    DLX
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    Everything Jones does is cheap because he wins. Now if he would just lose for once, I'd be a fan. But dammit he keeps winning and it makes me so angry!

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. SlomiGa MMAathmetician

    SlomiGa
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    I thought the shouldercrank was fucking awesome. I saw a guy submit to it once, can't remember which fight though. I think it's an underrated move.

    The only thing Jones did that was dirty was the eyegouging - some things never change.
     
    #40

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