Decent Boxers Who Learned Boxing Themselves?

[Bamboozled]

Sugar Ray's dad didn't want him to box and made a deal to let him box if he could beat him. Ray's dad , a former navy boxer confident of his abilities, ended up getting thrashed by his pre teen son.

Erik Morales's dad too didn't want his son to box despite owning a gym. So, he kept pairing him up with the best fighters he could find hoping he could find one who could beat his son's enthusasim for boxing out of him. Erik beat the shit out of all of them.

Some guys just have it from the start.

Morales is the fucking truth

 

[wilddeuces]

my opinion and the opinion of a lot of great fighters is that great fighters are their own best teachers. It's probably true that there needs to be a certain amount of latent talent to do this and the rest is work but I think trainers are generally overrated. Ali once said how he came up with his style; watched the guys on tv, saw the good, kept it, saw the bad (in his eyes) left it out. to him, that meant no infighting, using distance for defense instead of just technique.

Usually those remarkable talents needed a coach that was great at the intangibles, and having a way to deeply understand their fighter to keep them in a good head space.

Both Ali and Leonard had the same trainer - Angelo Dundee - and he was more valuable as a guardian angel type that gave key advice and made the right things happen to keep them from those big losses (in between rounds after the knockdown from Henry Cooper and Dundee's famous: "You're blowing it, kid!" when Leonard wasn't changing his strategy to beat Hearns). Angelo, admittedly, had little to contribute technically, but his quality of mind brought something necessary to the table for Ali and Leonard.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Dempsey ran away at a young age and moved his way up by having contests with miners and in hobos camps (he worked the mines and did the hobo life)

 

[wilddeuces]

Dempsey ran away at a young age and moved his way up by having contests with miners and in hobos camps (he worked the mines and did the hobo life)

Actually, Dempsey is a guy that did a lot of self-reflection and made a lot of adjustments on his own. Talking about how much he was afraid of getting hurt, he wanted the fight over as soon as possible. His crouching, swarming style, weaving to avoid getting hit was pretty novel, and reflective of how he viewed fighting.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Actually, Dempsey is a guy that did a lot of self-reflection and made a lot of adjustments on his own. Talking about how much he was afraid of getting hurt, he wanted the fight over as soon as possible. His crouching, swarming style, weaving to avoid getting hit was pretty novel, and reflective of how he viewed fighting.

Yep, he'd have to because I doubt he would have the money from living the rough life to have a trainer in those bleak times and in a cutthroat, unforgiving atmosphere like that. Also, pretty sure they did not share fighting secrets with each other much. Maybe a tip here or there if you were lucky or gave them a bite of your fried dough. You'd have to go it alone and make yourself, much like scraping together your own meek living while hopping train cars, same philosophy same operating principles

 

[BillytheFish]

Chris Eubank was self taught, good solid fighter who was amazing at basics and would have done well as an old school boxer

Chris Eubank learned to box in New York as a teenager at 16?

 

[Bogotazo]

I tend to think that anyone who believes you can walk into a gym and start owning even semi-experienced amateurs on sheer talent alone haven't ever tried lacing them up. It's not something you can just watch and do, there are a thousand nuances that you won't pick up without someone teaching you. There might be a thousand you learn on your own along the way, but natural athleticism doesn't enable you to parry, slip in the right direction, throw proper punches, maintain balance, set up combinations, and specialize counters. (This is why Roy being reduced to a freak athlete is a myth).

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Dont most Mexican, or central American fighters just go to gym and spar for a bit and then turn pro?

 

[RabbitPunch36]

I wonder what @Sinister has the say on this topic.

 

[mozfonky]

Dont most Mexican, or central American fighters just go to gym and spar for a bit and then turn pro?

many of them do i think, i know duran had about 7 ammie fights and he admits he was terrible. most of the greats don't show a lot of early promise.

 

[Sinister]

Anyone who claims to be self-taught is most-likely an egomaniac, and a liar.

 

[aldeniro78]

Wasn't it Calvin Brock who learned from watching boxing instructional videos?

 

[Minowafanatic]

It's a myth that someone can learn how to box on their own, as you just can't. The mechanics of boxing aren't intuitive and need to be taught. Most of the examples given in this thread are relating to either stories that are just hype, or guys who led their training camps themselves and didn't take a great deal of instruction from their coaches at that point, while ignoring that in their development they will have undoubtedly been in contact with lesser known coaches and trainers or just other fighters who worked with them and helped develop their fundamentals and imparted knowledge, even if those guys aren't ever publicly given credit.

I tend to think that anyone who believes you can walk into a gym and start owning even semi-experienced amateurs on sheer talent alone haven't ever tried lacing them up.

Yep, even novice amateurs will absolutely beat the shit out of and toy with untrained but very strong/athletic guys anywhere remotely near their weight class in a boxing ring.

 

[Bogotazo]

It's a myth that someone can learn how to box on their own, as you just can't. The mechanics of boxing aren't intuitive and need to be taught. Most of the examples given in this thread are relating to either stories that are just hype, or guys who led their training camps themselves and didn't take a great deal of instruction from their coaches at that point, while ignoring that in their development they will have undoubtedly been in contact with lesser known coaches and trainers or just other fighters who worked with them and helped develop their fundamentals and imparted knowledge, even if those guys aren't ever publicly given credit.

Yep, even novice amateurs will absolutely beat the shit out of and toy with untrained but very strong/athletic guys anywhere remotely near their weight class in a boxing ring.

Great post.

 

[mozfonky]

I really don't know, Ali had two coaches when he was young, the cop who started him, joe martin and fred stoner. Ali claims in his bio that joe didn't teach him much and that fred stoner really taught him things he could use but I have to say that's probably due to the racial element in Ali's bio, he tried to downplay the white people around him (martin was white, stoner was black). Either way, any strict coach (clancy has said it) wouldn't have even tolerated Ali with all the "mistakes" he made and no coach would teach those techniques to anyone. Ali said it and he meant it when asked about it, that his dad said he made him, his coaches said he made him but "I made me" egotistical as it sounds it's pretty much true. With a guy like duran he had some teaching but he was such a natural that Arcel advised freddie brown not to teach him anything. This is a point of contention between fighters/trainers too, larry holmes has stated in his bio that he didn't think trainers deserved much credit, Sugar Ray Leonard payed angelo a miniscule amount for the Hagler fight and they had issues with dundee never being around until a week before a fight (dundee had priceless insights though and whatever the case, leonard was smart enough to listen). Finally, when sugar ray robinson's coach, george gainford stated that he was the greatest trainer because he had the greatest fighter ever, he was asked why he didn't have any other great fighters, he couldn't answer. Gainford and Robinson fell out after robinson published his bio over some kind of dispute or another. so the trainer thing? I'd have to go on a case by case basis myself. Some need more than others, some listen better than others, some are best with minimal instruction. More than one way to the top of the mountain.

 

[spacetime]

How is it possible for a world champion level fighter to be self taught? He never went to a gym and had an instructor?

 

[Dr. Will]

How is it possible for a world champion level fighter to be self taught? He never went to a gym and had an instructor?

As others have said, there are ways around it. You may not have had a formal trainer but by being in the boxing gym and training with other fighters, light sparring, hard sparring, working on certain drills to further sharpen instincts, being watched and advised by some trainers along the way on garnering knowledge that's effective for the ring etc. You could have a lot of knowledge but you may not know how to breathe properly when you're throwing and landing punches, you may not realize that your ring positioning is completely off so the shots you are thinking of throwing will be completely thwarted by your opponents better angle who can either land the better shots or force you further out of position and take advantage. You may keep your hand low after the jab despite knowing in principle not to.

The point being that it's incredibly hard to do, we don't see many examples at all in history of this. Besides the technical aspects, trainers will know your boundaries, oversee and push it accordingly. They also help you live accordingly to a particular philosophy and makes sure that the philosophy works for you, so you train with purpose. They'll be the third party observer that is committed to looking at your blindspots etc.

 

[spacetime]

The ones who are self trained seem to be trainers. Never boxed a day in their life in or outside the ring. Like Angelo Dundee. Listen to his analysis of match-ups. Prime Ali beats prime Mike Tyson because Tyson is short. Foreman beats Liston because Foreman is long and Liston is just 6 foot (according to Dundee).

No depth to his analysis at all. Knows nothing about boxing. It's all based on heights.

Those who can, do.. Those who can't, teach

 

[Prefect]

As others have said, there are ways around it. You may not have had a formal trainer but by being in the boxing gym and training with other fighters, light sparring, hard sparring, working on certain drills to further sharpen instincts, being watched and advised by some trainers along the way on garnering knowledge that's effective for the ring etc. You could have a lot of knowledge but you may not know how to breathe properly when you're throwing and landing punches, you may not realize that your ring positioning is completely off so the shots you are thinking of throwing will be completely thwarted by your opponents better angle who can either land the better shots or force you further out of position and take advantage. You may keep your hand low after the jab despite knowing in principle not to.

The point being that it's incredibly hard to do, we don't see many examples at all in history of this. Besides the technical aspects, trainers will know your boundaries, oversee and push it accordingly. They also help you live accordingly to a particular philosophy and makes sure that the philosophy works for you, so you train with purpose. They'll be the third party observer that is committed to looking at your blindspots etc.

What do you say when a 17 year old out boxes a champ? We don't have to talk about just champs, becoming just a pro means you are way ahead of most.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

That funk whatever dudethat had a huge following here once, always got people making fun of him for making “mistakes” on his twitter. But to him he tries to reinvent the light bulb with innovation. Its very admirable imo.

I know a man who went 10 rounds with an undefeated self proclaimed TBE........

He was completely self taught

His name you ask?

CONOR ANTHONY MCGREGOR

Every trainer conor ever had since age 12 are pretty much public.